Scott Aviation

EI CGR-30P new engine monitor

Recommended Posts

Digging this thread back up. These are the only instruments required on my C based in part 91 and the TCDS.

I now believe I can replace all of my engine instruments with one CGR30P.

Fuel level L/R

Oil pressure

Oil temp

CHT

Tach

MAP

The following are not required by the FARs or the TCDS and can be set as non primary

EGT

Fuel pressure

Ammeter

OAT

What do you guys think? Can I legally dump the entire six gauge cluster, my map, tach, fuel pressure, and egt with this one device?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

Also, what is the diff between the CGR30P and the CGR30C? The C seems to be newer and cheaper.

Looks like the C doesn't have Tach, Manifold Pressures, CHTs or EGTs. Looks like a great way to replace just the cluster instruments.

And yes, you can dump all those instruments you listed above. I'm doing that, but using the EDM 900 instead of the CGR30P.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading more, it looks like EIs doc and specifications are works-in-progress. From their ICA doc:

"The CGR-30P and CGR-30C systems are identical in hardware, installation and maintenance. The difference between the two models is the configuration of the user screens. The CGR-30P incorporates two arcs at the top of the display, a bargraph display for monitoring EGTs & CHTs and strip gages for other functions. The CGR-30C only displays strip gages."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may be wrong, so please verify, but I don't think the CGR30-P is certified to replace the fuel level gauges. That's one reason that I went with the JPI EDM-900

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sarasota avionics shows the CGR30C with the analog RPM and MAP here on this page.

http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/cgr30c

Yes, and I think they got their picture from this EI page:

http://buy-ei.com/portfolio/cgr-30c-pricing-and-options/

But the picture contradicts this statement in the Continued Airworthiness doc:

"The CGR-30P incorporates two arcs at the top of the display, a bargraph display for monitoring EGTs & CHTs and strip gages for other functions. The CGR-30C only displays strip gages."

Doesn't add up. I think the marketing guys got ahead of the product development guys at EI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a YouTube presentation of using both the C and the P in one certified airplane.

It appears the avionics guy (Dan Gualandri) owns the plane and filmed the installation using gopro and Virb cameras. Editing was done by someone else. Either way, EI was pretty impressed with the result.

There is plenty of opportunity for information overload or hiding what is primary vs support. In the past, an instrument could be certified primary for one or two inputs, but would handle several more.

The days of overhauling instruments seem to be moving towards the end...

Ryan,

Copy your post#26 to verify with EI or your instrument guy your intention.

The traffic caused by SnF is going to add delays if you wait too long...

Short on time...?

Skip to the end of the video to see a picture of the final installation. He replaced nine instruments with the pair of CGRs and added what looks (to me) like an iPad running a Garmin app? And an iPhone? and an Aspen and a GTN....

Best regards,

-a-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Digging this thread back up. These are the only instruments required on my C based in part 91 and the TCDS.

I now believe I can replace all of my engine instruments with one CGR30P.

Fuel level L/R

Oil pressure

Oil temp

CHT

Tach

MAP

The following are not required by the FARs or the TCDS and can be set as non primary

EGT

Fuel pressure

Ammeter

OAT

What do you guys think? Can I legally dump the entire six gauge cluster, my map, tach, fuel pressure, and egt with this one device?

Is fuel pressure listed as an operation limitation in you POH? If so it is required to be primary also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is fuel pressure listed as an operation limitation in you POH? If so it is required to be primary also.

Our Cs hardly have any fuel pressure. I cruise along happily at 2 psi, but it will sometime drop <1 as it did going past ATL at 9000 two weeks ago, humming along happily on almost-full tanks. I do run the boost pump to get max pressure of 6 psi right before I start the engine, though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I back in Jan 2015 (3 Months ago) I had my local avionics shop install a CGR-30P in my Eagle.  My experience has not been positive and I'm not sure if I would buy an EI product again.  Full disclosure it was my fault for not researching more thoroughly, but the base model of the 30P does not include manifold pressure.  At the time I purchased no where on EI's website or literature is there a picture of the base model.  Everything you see includes MP.  MP not being a function of the base model 30P was buried in the fine print and (at the time) the website was misleading.  I discussed this with customer service and there position was "too bad", I should have read the ordersheet which specifies what is and is not included more closely. They are correct, but when I asked if I was the "only" customer surprised by this, the answer was no, there were others with the same complaint.  They have since updated the website to show the base model's display under their pricing and options tab.

 

Secondly after only a month of service the dimmer rheostat burned up in flight. ( See pic).  The smell of burning electrics is not something you want to smell when you're flying at night.  It resulted in a divert and an unplanned night in a hotel before the plane was checked safe for flight the next day.  I let EI's customer service know about the rheostat issue and they seemed unconcerned and immediately blamed my installer say it "must have been installed wrong".  I had my local (well respected) avionics shop remove and replace the rheostat.  The part was installed correctly, was less than a month old, and EI would not compensate me for the labor for the replacement.  Moreover they wouldn't credit my account for the replacement part until the "bad" part was returned to them.  Additionally they knew this particular part was bad b/c customer service said they'd ship a replacement that was a new "improved" rheostat.  

 

Lastly the screen flashes full white one or twice every flight.  It only lasts for a second, so I'm living with it.  

 

My avionics shop deals with dozens of vendors regularly.  They are just as frustrated with EI as I am.  And the foreman reminds me every time a new problem pops up that they advised my not to buy an EI product because of their track record with customer service and product support.  Having been through these issues myself, I now share their frustrations.

 

I'm only one person and I'm sure EI has hundreds of happy customers, I'm just not one of them.  

post-6885-0-67358900-1429463655_thumb.jp

post-6885-0-06915800-1429463661_thumb.jp

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I back in Jan 2015 (3 Months ago) I had my local avionics shop install a CGR-30P in my Eagle. My experience has not been positive and I'm not sure if I would buy an EI product again. Full disclosure it was my fault for not researching more thoroughly, but the base model of the 30P does not include manifold pressure. At the time I purchased no where on EI's website or literature is there a picture of the base model. Everything you see includes MP. MP not being a function of the base model 30P was buried in the fine print and (at the time) the website was misleading. I discussed this with customer service and there position was "too bad", I should have read the ordersheet which specifies what is and is not included more closely. They are correct, but when I asked if I was the "only" customer surprised by this, the answer was no, there were others with the same complaint. They have since updated the website to show the base model's display under their pricing and options tab.

Secondly after only a month of service the dimmer rheostat burned up in flight. ( See pic). The smell of burning electrics is not something you want to smell when you're flying at night. It resulted in a divert and an unplanned night in a hotel before the plane was checked safe for flight the next day. I let EI's customer service know about the rheostat issue and they seemed unconcerned and immediately blamed my installer say it "must have been installed wrong". I had my local (well respected) avionics shop remove and replace the rheostat. The part was installed correctly, was less than a month old, and EI would not compensate me for the labor for the replacement. Moreover they wouldn't credit my account for the replacement part until the "bad" part was returned to them. Additionally they knew this particular part was bad b/c customer service said they'd ship a replacement that was a new "improved" rheostat.

Lastly the screen flashes full white one or twice every flight. It only lasts for a second, so I'm living with it.

My avionics shop deals with dozens of vendors regularly. They are just as frustrated with EI as I am. And the foreman reminds me every time a new problem pops up that they advised my not to buy an EI product because of their track record with customer service and product support. Having been through these issues myself, I now share their frustrations.

I'm only on person and I'm sure EI has hundreds of happy customers, I'm just not one of them.

Wow, sorry to hear that George! I hope my unit doesn't start to go in me. My interactions have been pretty positive with EI- to include being walked through the locked out alarms screens to adjust some of the settings to read correctly (due to the missile conversion- the oil pressure, fuel pressure settings were set to a stock 201). I've only got about 75 hours on the unit, but I'm not seeing the white screen you've spoken of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the fish is missing from the front of the instrument...?

Has ownership of EI changed in the last few years?

Best regards,

-a-

Update: It is still at the bottom of the web page...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the EI MVP-50 in my current plane and have been very happy with it. I had a JPI in my last plane and was considering upgrading it. When I called customer service they where very short with me and almost put out that i was calling and asking about the upgrade. I held off with it because I was thinking of selling the plane and did't know which direction I wanted to go. My current plane I decided on the MVP-50 not because of my customer service experience with JPI but because of the feature and how much easier it was to navigate the screens. I did have a probe go out that they wanted back before they would warranty it and I did think that was a little funny. I haven't had any problems aside from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear of your experience George. I have individual EI gauges in my panel and they have "just worked" since install a few years ago. Thanks for taking the blows for the team. That is a lousy "fine print" SNAFU. THAT alone would make me a non-lover of EI. Caveat Emptor...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add that JPI included the fuel pressure transducer and function in my EDM-900 in the price of the kit, because it was in the POH. 

 

If you read my previous posts on this back when I was deciding, I really had my heart set on the EI unit. Time and weather permitting, I may run out to sun-n-fun today and check the show specials. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is what I got from EI regarding using a CGR30P as primary for my cluster and tach.

I am still not sure about this being a full replacement for my C.

The CGR-30P can replace up to 6 primary instruments in one 3-1/8 hole. RPM and EGT/CHT are standard on all CGR-30Ps. You would choose an additional 5 functions. 5 of the primary functions will be displayed on the primary screen and 1 will be displayed on the secondary screen with 5 secondary functions. You have chosen six primary functions (left and right fuel level would count as two), so you would have to omit one. Additionally, I would suggest that you choose fuel flow as a secondary option to take advantage of the CGR-30P's fuel totalizer. I have attached a copy of our CGR-30P worksheet for you to review. It will give you a good idea of how capable the CGR-30 is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was what I asked.

I and others on Mooneyspace want to know if your cgr30p can replace the six pack cluster, tach, mp, and fuel pressure in a 1965 C. I need left and right fuel level, oil temp, oil pressure, rpm, mp, fuel pressure, CHT in my type certificate. Egt and ammeter are not required. Can some of these things be on the second screen but flash warnings on the primary screen. Perhaps fuel levels or fuel pressure?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Fuel Pressure is the odd man out.   Mine replaced everything on your list except the FP.   The choices are:

 

1.  Keep the Tach and MP for redundancy

2.  Purchase an EI FP-5L  Fuel Flow Computer and use the Aux channel for Fuel Pressure. 

 

I chose # 1.   In hindsight I'm pleased but often think it would be nice to always have the GPH displayed as it's not on the primary screen of the CGR.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going with the jpi 900. It can replace everything. And it's about the same price as the 30p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back in the shop again with more CGR-30P issues. :angry:  I'm regretting buying this and the customer service at EI is horrific.  Lessoned learned.  Next time I'll stick with JPI products. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you mind sharing details of the issue? What have you asked customer service to do that they have not come through on?

 

On the other side of the spectrum, I've had no issues at all with the CGR-30P in my Mooney and I've been flying with it for several months, I think 7 months or so.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back in the shop again with more CGR-30P issues. :angry:  I'm regretting buying this and the customer service at EI is horrific.  Lessoned learned.  Next time I'll stick with JPI products. 

 

Bummer! My Ei experience has been great but I am working with them on established products that have been out there a number of years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bummer! My Ei experience has been great but I am working with them on established products that have been out there a number of years.

My experience has been good too- over a year without issue on the CGR-30P for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now