Avidyne....Brass Nads??

[carusoam]

Bret,

The BK instrument updates have been coming for years. 770?

Seems more challenging than "ordinary" electronics or avionics.

The promises cannot be kept. They are just unable.

The GTN, 530w, 430w or upgraded G1000 is the only way to fly a waas approach...

My 10 yr old Garmin handheld 186 has waas with vertical guidance.

Why is this so challenging???

I was hoping for a WAAS approach to my home drome to go with some new equipment.

Just gonna keep waiting. I've got bigger fish to fry anyway...

Best regards,

-a-

[bnicolette]

Well I wasn't so much in a hurry for the unit as I don't really need it but given the $8K discount I thought it would be silly not to jump on board.  I am sure that the sequester has played into some of the delay but I guess most of it is probably just the normal FAA roadblocks.  I have been down the road of trying to work with them on manuals for a part 135 operator and everything took so long.  Between scheduling,changes they wanted and re-reads etc. it was just endless.

 

I am probably still going to hold my place in line unless something better (& cheaper) comes along.  Until then the iPad is a great navigation device.      Hey maybe they'll offer us deposit holders a deeper discount to keep our chips in the game?  Wishful thinking.

[Marauder]

Working in an industry that makes specialized high end electronics, my guess is the BK product is getting hung up in the product lifecycle stages. When a new product is developed, there is a lot of market research to determine a variety of factors that will determine what the industry wants, willing to pay, blah, blah, blah. This gets translated into a design concept, handed over to R&D and a prototype produced. Then the financial guys get into the equation. Between them and the product group, they fine tune the financial model, look at profitability, current market trends, blah, blah, blah. At some point the execs get into the cage match and then a final determination is made of whether to bring it to market, adapt the product for current market conditions (more R&D time) or go shot the guy who came up with the crappy design.

 

After that, then all of the rest of the corporate machinery is engaged, more blah, blah, blah (procurement wrestling with suppliers for parts, manufacturing on building out a production line, order fulfillment on distribution strategies, marketing to design those pretty boxes and of course more blah, blah, blah). In a regulated industry you also have to deal with compliance and meeting regulatory requirements, more blah, blah, blah.

 

BK is owned by Honeywell, so I am guessing there is more blah, blah, blah which is slowing things down.

 

Brett -- just as a point of reference, not saying it is bad or good. But most companies that require down payments are usually looking for that money not to secure order. They are looking for seed money to do the blah, blah, blah. Companies with established business models, normally have the funding and do not require this. I haven't followed Avidyne, so I am not sure how big they are or how financially viable they are.

[wishboneash]

Well, I am glad I got the GTN-650 even though I was tempted by the IFD-440. It was vapourware as far as the avionics guy I work with was concerned. The GTN-650 has been great and I like the interface. Coming from the 430, it was a vast improvement for me (WAAS, airways and easy flight plan changes), critical for single-pilot IFR.

[DaV8or]

I wonder if anybody has gotten the "official" word from Avidyne about all this nonsense and what in the world is taking so long. I think if I were one of the deposit holders, I would be looking to get it back. Clearly, they're struggling.

[bnicolette]

Avidyne is keeping us up to date on what is happening in the certification process:

 

http://forums.avidyne.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=238&PN=3&title=ifd540-certification-status

[jetdriven]

Well I wasn't so much in a hurry for the unit as I don't really need it but given the $8K discount I thought it would be silly not to jump on board.  I am sure that the sequester has played into some of the delay but I guess most of it is probably just the normal FAA roadblocks.  I have been down the road of trying to work with them on manuals for a part 135 operator and everything took so long.  Between scheduling,changes they wanted and re-reads etc. it was just endless.

 

I am probably still going to hold my place in line unless something better (& cheaper) comes along.  Until then the iPad is a great navigation device.      Hey maybe they'll offer us deposit holders a deeper discount to keep our chips in the game?  Wishful thinking.

he thing they dont admit is it's not an 8K discount, its 3500$.  The GTN-750 is 13,500 plus install, my hangar mate just got one for 15K laid in.  And you can use it for the two years that you spend waiting for the iFD 540 to come out, so its  3500$ discount for two years of lost utilization, which is break even to me. Anyways, i thought it was better but in the end I backed out. Now they are blaming certification delays on sequester, which is a convenient excuse.  Over on BT they DFC-90 is now flying in a Bonanza, somehow they got that done. I think they over promised and are sorely lacking in the follow through.

[bnicolette]

I know JD but here is the thing I wrestle with.  Not having an IFR GPS in my airplane has not caused me to cancel one trip nor can I think of a circumstance where it would cause me to cancel a trip, so utilization has not been a big issue (with me).  I do want one though.  If I go and get a used 530 it's going to cost me $7300 or 13, 500 for a new GTN.  When they laid that 9K out for the IFD540 it was great bait, well at least for me.  However, it has been fruitless to date. Not that I really care too much unless for some reason I need to market my airplane to get rid of it or I can't get my money back in the event something happens to the company.  I only put 1K down to hold my position so I wouldn't be out that much but enough to really piss me off!!! 

[Cabanaboy]

Well lets hope it works out good for you and the IFD540 is better than you expected and that is a possibility.

[tony]

They completed flight test and are waiting for the FAA pilots evaluation.  If there are comments, they will be folded into the OFP.  If not,  they are ready to begin formal software qual.

[tony]

 Now they are blaming certification delays on sequester, which is a convenient excuse.  Over on BT they DFC-90 is now flying in a Bonanza, somehow they got that done. I think they over promised and are sorely lacking in the follow through.

Actually they are not using sequestion as an excuse.

 

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-news-live/eaa-airventure/2013-07-30/avidyne-updates-programs

 

They are just late, that happens with development programs.....

[Marauder]

I know JD but here is the thing I wrestle with. Not having an IFR GPS in my airplane has not caused me to cancel one trip nor can I think of a circumstance where it would cause me to cancel a trip, so utilization has not been a big issue (with me). I do want one though. If I go and get a used 530 it's going to cost me $7300 or 13, 500 for a new GTN. When they laid that 9K out for the IFD540 it was great bait, well at least for me. However, it has been fruitless to date. Not that I really care too much unless for some reason I need to market my airplane to get rid of it or I can't get my money back in the event something happens to the company. I only put 1K down to hold my position so I wouldn't be out that much but enough to really piss me off!!!

Brett - it is a tough call to make. I would love to give Garmin competition, but based on the prices they show as list, Avidyne will be as expensive, if not more than the Garmin counterpart. The big advantage will be for those who want to upgrade the 430/530 without the mounting hardware needing to be changed out. Add in this liability waiver and reported repair price structure, I personally would not consider them. You know the path I went down. You are more than welcome to come fly my plane and check out the GTN/Aspen configuration if you haven't flown it. I am impressed with the capability and ease of use. The installed price with the rebates they offer periodically, has in in the ballpark of their list price.

[Cris]

Brett- Competition may finally be here. Bendix King announced at Oskosh that the KSN 770 has been finished and sent to the FAA. They expect shipments in Sept. It is on their website complete with a trade in program for those that have older BK equipment. Sarasota Avionics is advertising it for sale at $11,289.00. List is $13900. BK offered a $1000 discount if ordered at Oskosh. I suspect that will be repeated at AOPA convention which would put the cost at just over $10k plus installation. That's about the street cost of a GTN 650. The big difference is the screen is between a 650 and 750 and is based on open architecture designed in part with Aspen. I think it is worth a serious look even assuming deliveries are delayed a bit. I am gettin an installed quote now.

[bnicolette]

Thanks for that info Cris.  I have emailed Avidyne twice about getting a refund with no reply yet.  I'm still not getting worked up just yet as I'm sure they're still getting settled in from a week at OSH but not very professional if you ask me.  Surely the whole operation didn't stop because of the fly-in?

[Marauder]

Surely the whole operation didn't stop because of the fly-in?

Certainly not, just the ones holding your money

[DaV8or]

Thanks for that info Cris.  I have emailed Avidyne twice about getting a refund with no reply yet.  I'm still not getting worked up just yet as I'm sure they're still getting settled in from a week at OSH but not very professional if you ask me.  Surely the whole operation didn't stop because of the fly-in?

 

I hope if you do decide to get your money back, that you and everybody else that demands a refund, tell them why you want a refund. The stuff they're doing recently is really, really stupid IMO. I hope you get your money back, but don't be surprised if it ends up- delay... delay... bankruptcy.

[Marauder]

Thanks for that info Cris. I have emailed Avidyne twice about getting a refund with no reply yet. I'm still not getting worked up just yet as I'm sure they're still getting settled in from a week at OSH but not very professional if you ask me. Surely the whole operation didn't stop because of the fly-in? I hope if you do decide to get your money back, that you and everybody else that demands a refund, tell them why you want a refund. The stuff they're doing recently is really, really stupid IMO. I hope you get your money back, but don't be surprised if it ends up- delay... delay... bankruptcy.

Or worse, munch, munch get eaten by Garmin.

[tony]

Also, I have heard the repair prices for the Avidyne products are more expensive than other manufacturers. This is not saving money for consumers, this is to make sure they don't get sued.

 

http://www.avidyne.com/support/Avidyne_OutofWarranty.pdf 

 

 

 

 

$1200 flat rate for out of warranty repair of an IFD540, with no indemnification release to sign.