Portable ADS-B Solutions -- Moment of Truth!

[FlyDave]

I just received this from Adventure pilot makers of the I-Fly 720.

 

I wonder if this will make changes in the way we do things?

 

 

ADSB-IN and out

 

 

SkyGuardTWX Vision-Pro ADS-B Transceiver Special

 

 

https://ifly.adventurepilot.com/shop-t136/skyguardtwx-vision-pro-ads-b-transceiver-special.aspx

Wow! I haven't bought the Garmin GDL-39 yet - maybe they'll offer an ADS-B in/out unit as well. Oshkosh would be a great time to make announcements like that .

[jetdriven]

That thing looks suspiciously like th Skyradar I used to have. I took a bath on that thing, it was too complicated with all those wires, so I sold it for the GDL-39.  Im waiting for a dual band GDL before I buy anything else.

[bnicolette]

Marauder, traffic is a novelty with ADS-B unless you have something to trigger the ground stations, such as an ADS-B OUT transponder or that 1200$ Gizmo that Bnicolette has.

 

 

Hey...............I only paid $975 for that "out" box.  It is working however.

 

I have heard through the rumor mill that Stratus will be coming out with an ADS-B in/out box next year.  That's a tall order and not sure I believe it but it would be nice.  All kinds of rumors are flying around these days with advancements.  One thing is for sure...........It's gonna be like the computers have been.  Whatever you buy now will be a dinosaur next year.

[Marauder]

You need another credit card and hidden checking account to accomplish these things. 

 

Unfortunately, my wife works for the banking industry. There is no hiding for me

[Marauder]

Hey...............I only paid $975 for that "out" box.  It is working however.

 

I have heard through the rumor mill that Stratus will be coming out with an ADS-B in/out box next year.  That's a tall order and not sure I believe it but it would be nice.  All kinds of rumors are flying around these days with advancements.  One thing is for sure...........It's gonna be like the computers have been.  Whatever you buy now will be a dinosaur next year.

 

And there in lies the rub. I am hoping some of you guys going to Oshkosh can report some good news on cheaper and more capable products. At the moment, I'm in a holding pattern with no EFC time... I would love to upgrade my Aspen to do ADS-B but only the GDL-88 appears available. Aspen's solution is still vaporware.

 

I was hoping that a nice portable is available to tied me over, but considering everything is hardware/app dependent, you either need to live with an app you don't like and the hardware you do or the app you like with the hardware that will cost you too much to like...

 

My range of emotions on this topic:            

[1964-M20E]

That thing looks suspiciously like th Skyradar I used to have. I took a bath on that thing, it was too complicated with all those wires, so I sold it for the GDL-39.  Im waiting for a dual band GDL before I buy anything else.

Byron

 

I'm sure it is the same manfacturer.  I think Adventurepilot and Skyradar work closely.  I have the sky radar now it is good for weatehr reports and NXRAD

[bnicolette]

Byron

 

I'm sure it is the same manfacturer.  I think Adventurepilot and Skyradar work closely.  I have the sky radar now it is good for weatehr reports and NXRAD

 

I was curious about this so I just asked SkyguardTWX about it and this was the reply:

 

 

                        SkyGuardTWX LLC is a completely different

                         And independent company from SkyRadar (Radenna) or Adventure Pilot.   Our designs

                         Are totally different and we believe we offer the best price/performance

                         Value on ADS-B Transceivers and Receivers.    The boxes do look similar

                          Since they are both coming from the same enclosure manufacturer, but

                          The electronics inside are completely different.   Our units contain a transmitter

                          And dual-band receivers And SkyRadar is only a dual-band receiver.

[Piloto]

Anything that transmit with more than 0.1W on 1090MHz or 978MHz needs to have FAA approval (STC or TSO) on the product and its manufacturer (PMA).

For approved manufacturers (PMA) check  http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgpma.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

For TSO check http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

For STC check http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

 

The requirement for FAA approval is to insure that the product will not cause interference to the UAT (978MHz) network or ATC radar 1090MHz). 

 

If the manufacturer is not in any of the above list I would be cautious.

 

José

[bnicolette]

Anything that transmit with more than 0.1W on 1090MHz or 978MHz needs to have FAA approval (STC or TSO) on the product and its manufacturer (PMA).

For approved manufacturers (PMA) check  http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgpma.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

For TSO check http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

For STC check http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSTC.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

 

The requirement for FAA approval is to insure that the product will not cause interference to the UAT (978MHz) network or ATC radar 1090MHz). 

 

If the manufacturer is not in any of the above list I would be cautious.

 

José

 

José,

 

You had me concerned about the above, so I asked them about it.  Here is the response I got:

 

 

We are working to gain FAA approval.  This will be a long

Process as there is a lot of documentation and testing required

By the FAA.   They are aware we have a transceiver and know

That we have passed FCC approval.  They are ok with it as long

As we continue to pursue TSO certification.

[bnicolette]

We flew up to Erie this morning for a two daycation.  I continue to be impressed with the portable ADS-B out box.  Anytime ATC called out traffic I already had a fix on them.  These two pictures show one target which was a C172 that we were passing as we were climbing from 8K to 9K feet.  

 

 

[KSMooniac]

We launch tomorrow on a long trip to DE and NYC and I can't wait to demo ADS-B.  I'm using a loaner GDL 39 + Xoom android tablet and Garmin Pilot.  Yesterday I got my GNS-x30W and GTX-330ES software updated to full ADS-B OUT configuration, although the shop missed one setting that I hope to correct in the morning.  I tested the last evening and saw some rural traffic below me on TIS (on the 530W) but not on the Xoom/ADS-B, so I'm not quite there yet.  Hopefully changing the GNS setting will rectify that.

[carusoam]

Now we're seeing the light....

Portable ADSB-out powerfully enough to iluminate all nearby traffic.

And get you some weather as well.

Best regards,

-a-

[bnicolette]

Got a great view of this plane this morning.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[bnicolette]

Okay guys one last picture from my portable ads b out unit. I thought this one would be good as it shows that the transmit power of the unit must be fairly good as i was receiving this traffic right after takeoff climbing through about 1900' agl. He was short final.

Im not sure of the closest tower but this was at KLBE.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Marauder]

These app manufacturers are not making it any easier for us. The latest capability added to the Garmin app -- terrain.

[Piloto]

Not as fancy as a tablet but very effective. When traffic is a threat I get a voice warning and a pop up window on the 530. No need to be looking down for traffic at a tablet, may as well be looking out the window. Picture taken in the hangar showing traffic in the pattern.

 

José 

[FlyDave]

These app manufacturers are not making it any easier for us. The latest capability added to the Garmin app -- terrain. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1374933590.766740.jpg

 

I think we're going to see Garmin implement a lot of new features in the next 1-2 years that will bring it parallel and beyond the other app vendors.

[carusoam]

How many iPads / will we have in the cockpit???

(1) showing nav and current weather, knee board or panel mounted (sort of). - oldest iPad still in use...

(2) showing nav and traffic, high panel mounted (near line of sight, because that's where you will be looking for traffic) - iPad mini to minimize blocking the view out the windshield...

(3) showing gliding distance to nearest airport (Xavion) - iPhone of recent vintage?

WingX, Garmin or Foreflite or BK software. (all are still enduring high development rates)

All of these are non-critical nav devices, accept for Xavion... When things get quiet up front...

ADSB in and out. Not fully developed yet, but getting better

-a-

[Piloto]

Very impressive indeed all these tablet apps. But when is the moment of truth on an LPV approach down to minimuns which one will you trust? None of these tablet apps will give you guidance cues (HSI like) coupled to the autopilot. I have done over a dozen LPV approaches down to minimuns with the old trusty 530W. All of them coupled (LOC & GS) with the autopilot on approach mode and cross check with the ILS on NAV 2 and air speed from an old trusty pneumatic gage. Beware that left speed tape on these apps is ground speed and not indicated air speed. You could easily have a speed difference of 20kts. I am always impress by the accuracy of these A/P coupled LPV approaches. Even though I keep my hand on the yoke I do not push A/P disconnect until about 100ft AGL. You will never have this experience and confidence with a tablet.

 

José

[bnicolette]

Very impressive indeed all these tablet apps. But when is the moment of truth on an LPV approach down to minimuns which one will you trust? None of these tablet apps will give you guidance cues (HSI like) coupled to the autopilot. I have done over a dozen LPV approaches down to minimuns with the old trusty 530W. All of them coupled (LOC & GS) with the autopilot on approach mode and cross check with the ILS on NAV 2 and air speed from an old trusty pneumatic gage. Beware that left speed tape on these apps is ground speed and not indicated air speed. You could easily have a speed difference of 20kts. I am always impress by the accuracy of these A/P coupled LPV approaches. Even though I keep my hand on the yoke I do not push A/P disconnect until about 100ft AGL. You will never have this experience and confidence with a tablet.

 

José

 

I don't think the iPad's were intended for that purpose nor do they portray to be.  I will say however, that using the iPad's in the cockpit for over two years now (probably over 400 landings) with the geo referencing, the position of the plane on the approach charts is spot on (not talking vertically here).  With the portable GPS WAAS receivers and accuracy down to <1m it's just amazing.  Throw into that the ability to have ADS-B (wx & traffic) and AHRS information.............   What a wonderful inexpensive reliable tool they are!

 

Seriously, we used to salivate at all the new Garmin portables at an entry price of $3K+ and now to get the latest and greatest additions, we just simply tap on the update button and nothing comes out of the wallet.  Pinch me please, I must be dreaming.  

[Piloto]

Throw into that the ability to have ADS-B (wx & traffic) and AHRS information.............   What a wonderful inexpensive reliable tool they are!

 

 

 

Totally worthless in Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas since there is no ADS-B coverage but XM\WX coverage.

 

José

[Marauder]

Jose, You are consistently a "hater" where ADS-B is concerned, and especially so when in reference to the portable units. I'm not sure why. I don't fly IFR or in Canada, Mexico, or the Bahamas. If you do, I recommend that you keep both your $15,000 530W and your monthly XM/WX subscription. For me, my $350 UAT receiver will do nicely, thank you very much. Apples and oranges. I'm not sure why you feel the need to constantly compare them. Jim

To your point Jim, my sole purpose for buying the first app was to get electronic copies of my approach plates. For years, I sat down at the same kitchen table opening up yellowish tan Jepp envelopes and replacing charts, often 1 at a time. My pure joy back then was when the replacement index said to replace a whole state at once. I thought I had won the lottery when that happened. I do miss the 6 pack of beer I consumed while doing it though! Fast forward 20 years. Getting a device that will download them for me and put them into a form factor I can use is just Buck Rogers stuff for me. All of the rest is just plain upside! A portable moving map that didn't cost me over a thousand bucks?! The capability of setting up a flight with a graphical interface, getting a briefing, filing and having my charts all in one package that I could duplicate on a second electronic device for less than that portable GPS?! Am I the only one that remembers the days of LORAN and the GPS-55? Even with traffic limitations and delayed weather, (it will be for me) a million times better than trying to call up flight watch while setting up for a NDB approach. For those of us who have been flying a while, I say BRING IT ON, FLAWS AND ALL!!

[Piloto]

Jose,

You are consistently a "hater" where ADS-B is concerned, and especially so when in reference to the portable units. I'm not sure why. I don't fly IFR or in Canada, Mexico, or the Bahamas. If you do, I recommend that you keep both your $15,000 530W and your monthly XM/WX subscription. For me, my $350 UAT receiver will do nicely, thank you very much.

Apples and oranges. I'm not sure why you feel the need to constantly compare them.

Jim

 

Thanks Jim. You answered my curiosity.

 

José

[Piloto]

We don't all fly for the same reasons, Jose, and we certainly don't all have the same aviation budgets or mission requirements.

 

You are very right on that. That is why I don't own a jet, it is too noisy and does not fit in my T-hangar. But, but how come Obama on a $250K salary can afford a B747, must be because he has ADS-B. Oh well, maybe I should get one.

 

José

[FlyDave]

To your point Jim, my sole purpose for buying the first app was to get electronic copies of my approach plates. For years, I sat down at the same kitchen table opening up yellowish tan Jepp envelopes and replacing charts, often 1 at a time. My pure joy back then was when the replacement index said to replace a whole state at once. I thought I had won the lottery when that happened. I do miss the 6 pack of beer I consumed while doing it though! Fast forward 20 years. Getting a device that will download them for me and put them into a form factor I can use is just Buck Rogers stuff for me. All of the rest is just plain upside! A portable moving map that didn't cost me over a thousand bucks?! The capability of setting up a flight with a graphical interface, getting a briefing, filing and having my charts all in one package that I could duplicate on a second electronic device for less than that portable GPS?! Am I the only one that remembers the days of LORAN and the GPS-55? Even with traffic limitations and delayed weather, (it will be for me) a million times better than trying to call up flight watch while setting up for a NDB approach. For those of us who have been flying a while, I say BRING IT ON, FLAWS AND ALL!!

+1

(minus the Loran and GPS-55....I guess I didn't start flying as young as Marauder did)