Portable ADS-B Solutions -- Moment of Truth!

[Marauder]

Well, I might be entering this arena sooner rather than later now... It seems the feds have actually been busy filling out the gaps in ADS-B coverage in my neck of the woods, so I'm ready to jump in.  I'm not ready to buy an ipad yet, so I downloaded Garmin Pilot last night on my Xoom tablet and at first glance like what I see.  I think I have a deal worked to get a loaner/demo GDL-39, so I plan to use it next week on a long trip to Delaware and maybe NYC.  This will be a great opportunity to compare to XM weather on my trusty 496 and TIS traffic from my -330ES displayed on my 530W.  Now I need to (quickly) figure out if my transponder and GPS software and configurations are setup properly to trigger ADS-B data in...  I'm looking forward to this trip and fiddling with new-to-me technology and will of course give a full PIREP later.

 

Scott -- really interested in hearing about your results. Where in Delaware are you headed? A few of us are getting together on the 13th at KGED for brunch. 

[FlyDave]

For those of you with the GDL-39, how has reception been with the unit sitting on your glareshield?

Has anyone mounted and external antenna for their ADS-B receiver (Edit: I see Garmin does provide support for an external antenna on the GDL-39)? Did it make a difference from the on-board antenna on the glareshield?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

[KSMooniac]

Scott -- really interested in hearing about your results. Where in Delaware are you headed? A few of us are getting together on the 13th at KGED for brunch. 

 

Will do.  Y'all timed the KGED brunch too early!     I'm flying there from KS and should arrive late on the 18th or early on the 19th, barring big weather obstacles.  Depart Monday morning or early afternoon for NYC.

[jetdriven]

For those of you with the GDL-39, how has reception been with the unit sitting on your glareshield?

Has anyone mounted and external antenna for their ADS-B receiver (Edit: I see Garmin does provide support for an external antenna on the GDL-39)? Did it make a difference from the on-board antenna on the glareshield?

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

We recieve stations 80-100 NM away at 2-3000' with the GDL-39 sitting on the glareshield and the provided antenna laid flat.

[FlyDave]

We recieve stations 80-100 NM away at 2-3000' with the GDL-39 sitting on the glareshield and the provided antenna laid flat.

Byron,

Do you receive an ADS-B signal from stations at your 6 o'clock?

Dave

[jetdriven]

I havent noticed the 6-o-clock position but it usually receives 3-5 stations at a time.  On second though, it receives the HOU ADS-B station when traveling directly away but i'm not sure of the range. At least 30-40 miles. Its pretty amazing.

[KSMooniac]

Byron, what are y'all using to trigger the ADS-B data?  You're not WAAS-equipped, right?   (maybe you've already written that somewhere, but I haven't been paying close attention until just a few days ago)

[jetdriven]

No WAAS, its the weather I'm talking about. Traffic is a novelty, but when we are near a corporate jet airport, its pretty good too.

[KSMooniac]

Alrighty... I'm trying to figure out if my WAAS + 330ES setup is configured properly to get the traffic.  I *think* I understand what software and configuration settings are needed now, so I'll try to verify them over the weekend.  I might have to get the latest software loaded next week before launching on my big trip...just another thing to do at the last minute.

[Marauder]

Alrighty... I'm trying to figure out if my WAAS + 330ES setup is configured properly to get the traffic.  I *think* I understand what software and configuration settings are needed now, so I'll try to verify them over the weekend.  I might have to get the latest software loaded next week before launching on my big trip...just another thing to do at the last minute.

 

 

Let us know what you find out! I have been debating whether to upgrade my transponder to get the squitter and thus the "out" piece. Will make a bit cheaper for the Aspen ADS-B upgrade and also to allow the portable stuff to work.

[FlyDave]

For anyone wondering about coverage, I just found an updated map of ADS-B stations on the Sporty's iPad site:

 

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2013/06/updated-ads-b-coverage-map-released/

 

Here's the map (I hope it shows up):

 

[Marauder]

For anyone wondering about coverage, I just found an updated map of ADS-B stations on the Sporty's iPad site: http://ipadpilotnews.com/2013/06/updated-ads-b-coverage-map-released/ Here's the map (I hope it shows up):

Very interesting. Wassup with the Denver area (I think that is CO)? Mountains require a bunch of installations?

[carusoam]

Looks like they left out a couple from Utah and Wyoming...

-a-

[KSMooniac]

Very interesting. Wassup with the Denver area (I think that is CO)? Mountains require a bunch of installations?

 

There are a bunch of stations in the mountains to ensure good coverage.  I think I read somewhere that there was a lot of lobbying by the Hollywood bizjet crowd to make sure coverage was good so they could safely get into Aspen... meanwhile the plains states with frequent dynamic weather are the last to get covered!  

 

Additionally, a lot of the smaller traffic flies below ridges and through passes, so perhaps they sprinkled stations amongst the peaks to provide adequate coverage "down" into the valleys.

[Ned Gravel]

Looks like I am going to follow Brett on the ADS-B choice too.   I already have Foreflight - so the Stratus 2 it is.  Not really worried about traffic.  What I really need is a tool to warn me about stuff when I am already in the soup.  

[TWinter]

For anyone wondering about coverage, I just found an updated map of ADS-B stations on the Sporty's iPad site:

 

http://ipadpilotnews.com/2013/06/updated-ads-b-coverage-map-released/

 

Here's the map (I hope it shows up):

 

I'm extreme west TN. We fly north westerly quite often. Southeast Missouri seems to be last on most any project. Just my luck.LOL

[Jeff_S]

This map has filled in considerably in just the last six months. I flew from Atlanta to KC in December, and had no covereage from Western TN all the way across MO until I got near KC. Looks like just the MO portion of that is still not covered.

[TWinter]

This map has filled in considerably in just the last six months. I flew from Atlanta to KC in December, and had no covereage from Western TN all the way across MO until I got near KC. Looks like just the MO portion of that is still not covered.

Missouri, The "Show Me" State is not Showing Me Much.

[1964-M20E]

Well I have the I-Fly 720 with sky radar to get ADSB-IN and I like it.  It is supposed to get traffic but that is few and far between.  Would have been useful yesterday with a bus jet opposite direction +1000 feet and about 3 to 5 miles off my wing I was on an IFR plan and ATC didn’t call the traffic.  Oh well we were never in danger.

 

As for weather.  This past week I made several flights with many moderate to heavy showers in the area.  NEXRAD radar is great but as well mentioned before it is not the whole story nor is it accurate down to your specific location and there is the time delay.   Seeing and avoiding the buildups is crucial.  Even looking at live radar on the ground does not tell you the whole story nor does looking at the sky from the ground.

 

Several times ATC wanted to vector me around a cell and it would have put me directly into it.  Not their fault they are just trying to help with the info they have.  Other times they gave me a vector that got me out of what I was in or about to get into and it helped.  Yesterday departing for DTS there were heavy areas of precipitation all around the airport and ATC was busy with many arrivals trying to avoid the same showers I ended up staying low and going 40 to 50NM south out of my way to get my hole to fly though.  There was a hole but due to the other traffic and ATC being very busy I opted for the route I took.  From the ground it looked like the precipitation was everywhere but once in the air there were very clear and manageable holes that could be used.

 

Is XM weather any better as far as time delay or accuracy?

[1964-M20E]

I just received this from Adventure pilot makers of the I-Fly 720.

I wonder if this will make changes in the way we do things?

 

ADSB-IN and out

 

 

SkyGuardTWX Vision-Pro ADS-B Transceiver Special

 

 

https://ifly.adventurepilot.com/shop-t136/skyguardtwx-vision-pro-ads-b-transceiver-special.aspx

[jimluper]

Guys, This blog is perfect timing for me. I just got my IPad Mini and am looking to buy an app to run on it.

 

So my first question is where do you guys find is the best place to mount the IPad Mini for ease of use without being in the way of other things.

 

I fly a 1975 M20E model

 

Any thought as to where to mount it. I noticed a photo in one of the replies that showed it on top of the gas gauges. Not sure if that would work for me.

[Marauder]

I just received this from Adventure pilot makers of the I-Fly 720. I wonder if this will make changes in the way we do things? ADSB-IN and out SkyGuardTWX Vision-Pro ADS-B Transceiver Special https://ifly.adventurepilot.com/shop-t136/skyguardtwx-vision-pro-ads-b-transceiver-special.aspx

Looks like $76 off what their normal price is. Wish they could get these gizmos under $1k... Too easy for the wife to find on the credit card statements!

[Marauder]

Guys, This blog is perfect timing for me. I just got my IPad Mini and am looking to buy an app to run on it. So my first question is where do you guys find is the best place to mount the IPad Mini for ease of use without being in the way of other things. I fly a 1975 M20E model Any thought as to where to mount it. I noticed a photo in one of the replies that showed it on top of the gas gauges. Not sure if that would work for me.

Holy cow Jim! You have my original man size yokes! I still have mine in a box! I am currently using a Nexus 7 on a RAM yoke mount. My iPad is just a tad too big for a yoke mount (at least for me). Here is a picture of my Nexus 7 mounted on the yoke. It is about the same form factor as a iPad mini.

[1964-M20E]

Looks like $76 off what their normal price is. Wish they could get these gizmos under $1k... Too easy for the wife to find on the credit card statements!

You need another credit card and hidden checking account to accomplish these things. 

[jetdriven]

Marauder, traffic is a novelty with ADS-B unless you have something to trigger the ground stations, such as an ADS-B OUT transponder or that 1200$ Gizmo that Bnicolette has.

 

XM and FIS-B (ADS-B weather) are both NEXRAD images, which means the radar antennas all sweep different elevations, the image is stacked and rendered at some big computer somewhere, and it is packaged up as data and sent out. I read that XM and FIS-B are both supplied by the same vendor, but I can't confim that as fact.  What is fact is that the time delay from the radar sweep to your airplane is around 8 minutes to 20 minutes. Thats an eternity when dealing with something that can travel 60 MPH or grow at 6,000 feet per minute as a thunderstorm can. We have had a few crashes lately, notably involving a Pilatus PC-12, due to this "XM-effect."  Further, any CENTER weather radar returns or advisories are also based on this data, it all comes from the same source. So you see a gap between cells, the controller agrees, and you go for it, only to get your ass kicked. Well, this is why.

 

Radar TRACON approach controllers have better radar. It sweeps and goes right to their screen, raw data. If they give you a vector that looks to be a bad deal on XM or FIS-B, keep in mind he is looking at realtime data. Take it.  We have noticed this a couple times already. Notably going into Sedona. We were showing a heavy red cell right on the airport and continued on in clear air to landing. It was about 8 miles west moving away.  I like FIS-B weather, been flying with it for a year now, but you must remain in clear air to visually identify these monsters, unless you have onboard radar or a stormscope. Thats realtime data as well, and it works well. 

 

We flew a lot in the Beech 1900D out in Kansas and along the Gulf coast and our standard procedure was get down to 5,000 AGL, tilt the radar up 5-7 degrees, and bang through it. Beech builds a good airplane. Most of the time it worked pretty well, just torrential rain is all.  A couple times it went horribly wrong. Once my Jepp binders (the 3" one) flew out of the console so hard it hit the overhead panel, shattering the oxygen mask door and releasing the mask on 100% oxygen. While the mask was flying around at the end of the hose and spewing O2, the jepp binder exploded with approach plates and the cockpit looked like a snow globe at the airport gift shop. I couldnt even see the captain it was so thick.  Then somehow, in all this smoke and confusion, the control lock flew up from behind the seat and the pin landed exactly in the hole where the rudder lock goes. On landing, the rudder was jammed so that precipitated an unauthorized touch and go, and on downwind, we found the pin.  Those Kansas passengers never said a word.  So, knowing that, a stormscope would be a valuable tool in a Mooney.