Marauder Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't think the flashy screen will do it since in turbulent weather most pilots will set aside the tablet and focus on attitude, air speed, altitude and heading. Why do you think the stall warning is a horn. José Thats probably true I guess but my iPad Mini is on my yoke so it would be hard to miss. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Same here. I keep the Nexus 7 on the yoke as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Same here. I keep the Nexus 7 on the yoke as well. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371175348.518798.jpg Nice tablet but I may have to loose 30 pounds to keep it from rubbing my belly. Oh well only for the slims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Same here. I keep the Nexus 7 on the yoke as well. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1371175348.518798.jpg Nice tablet but I may have to loose 30 pounds to keep it from rubbing my belly. Oh well only for the slims LOL! I lost 70 to make it all work out for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 What are your thoughts on the developers that have exclusive use of one unit: Garmin Pilot/GDL - Foreflight/Stratus that say they do it so they work seamlessly together? Do you think it's just a sales pitch and they're doing that purely for profit reasons or do you think that there is some validity to it? I do wish that Stratus would allow the use of the AHRS to be piped to Xavion and not sure why they won't? Austin (Xavion) did say that he was hoping to be able to use the Stratus AHRS later this year but Appareo says it's not going to happen. Working in a similar field, my guess it is an attempt not to dilute their brand and to lock out competition. They both probably feel their offerings have strong value propositions. Garmin has the software/hardware base and doesn't need outside help. Why share? ForeFlight has no hardware capability and needed Appareo to develop the hardware. My guess ForeFlight has some sort of exclusivity agreement in place with Appareo to protect their interests. If you can keep your installed base happy by adding features to the app and keep the switching costs high (how much margin do you think they make on these antennae?) you can play that game. If you remember, Garmin's app prices were higher than ForeFlight last year. Around August they lowered their price to compete head-on with ForeFlight. One thing is true, unless there is a robust testing regiment in place, having open hierarchy can be a challenge because there are so many permutations that can occur. These bugs when they occur can detract from the value of the product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Get out of here! Really? I didn't know it had an output. I need to look at the GDL-39 a little closer. It sounds like it has features that aren't well advertised. The cable that connects the aera or 696 to the GDL-39 has an audio jack like an iPod. Snap your jack into there and run one side of the audio to the audio panel music input pin or, in my case, the ADF pin. I select ADF to monitor it. The only false alerts I get are at a certain airport, it doesnt recognize I am landing and gives the terrain alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyDave Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 One thing is true, unless there is a robust testing regiment in place, having open hierarchy can be a challenge because there are so many permutations that can occur. These bugs when they occur can detract from the value of the product. These are my thoughts on the "open architecture" that WingX must support as well. Garmin - and Foreflight - are professionally managed SW houses with comprehensive development and testing. Having to support only 1 or 2 ADS-B units keeps them on track. Hilton's s requirement to support 5 or 6 every time a new feature gets deployed is going to be a nightmare with disparities from unit to unit abounding. Don't get me wrong - I like a lot of WingX Pro's features and functionality. But their development practices and techniques leave much to be desired with me when in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 And that is indeed the rub Dave. Keeping your portfolio on proprietary technology gives you the control over the solution and the quality. Hilton is moving with the open hierarchy as is Aspen. The difference with Aspen is that they have the engineers needed to evaluate as well as the requirement to make it FAA approved. These non TSOd solutions don't have that requirement and if they don't do the due diligence for the testing, we own it as users. That said, ForeFlight and Pilot have had their fair share of "updates" to correct issues as well. I'm starting to dig into the Aspen solution a bit deeper. They have me a bit confused on the CG50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 All righty then... I just got off of the phone with Aspen and have a much better understanding of what they will (operative word) offer when they release the CG50 (due out in 3rd quarter ~Septemberish). Here is what I learned. The CG50 is a WiFi interface box that is hardwired to the MFD. If you have a WiFi ADS-B antennae, it will share (another operative word) the antennae with whatever portable application you are running. It is not compatible with the Garmin GDL-39 because 1) they use a proprietary data stream between the antennae and the Garmin Pilot app and 2) it is a Bluetooth protocol, not WiFi. So how does it work? Simple, you can run any app that you want that uses a WiFi based antennae. The CG50 picks up only (another operative word) the weather portion of that signal. So, if you use a Stratus 2, it will read the ADS-B weather information but not the traffic and display it on your MFD. Cool, but not complete. They told me the ATX ADS-B panel mounted stuff will be available around the same timeframe. This will include 3 flavors to support planes with and without a WAAS receiver and/or "out" capabilities. I also learned that Connected Pilot which only works partially with the 430/530 and does not work with the GTN series will work with the future (another operative word) offerings from Avidyne (the 540) and the Bendix King 770. They are in active collaboration with them on it. So -- I'm back to where I started. Brett and Mike will be here tomorrow. So hopefully I will get to see their stuff before Mike drags Brett around the patch to show him his AOA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 I think I'll bring the Chevy so I can witness the event! -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 Do any of these portable ADS-B in has voice traffic warning like TCAS? To me that is an important feature. Otherwise you would need to be looking at the tablet continuosly to asses the threats. This could be cumbersome in rough weather were your tablet may be jumping all over. On the Monroy ATD-300 a female voice alerts you when traffic is a threat and automatically a TCAS window pops up on the G530 showing the threat in yellow. Very effective for avoiding a collision. José I asked Foreflight about voice warnings and they said they want to add that capability but no timeframe yet. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted June 15, 2013 Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 I got to really use and see the SkyguardTWX in action today on a flight across PA. I am most impressed with the unit and being able to see the traffic. I was fortunate enough to have one target cross my path 1500' above me so that I could get a visual on him and compare that to what I was seeing on Foreflight. I tried to take a video of it but was unable to find the airplane using the iPhone video capture. I did see it visually though and it was right on the money! The video is in the link below and also some screen shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 16, 2013 Report Share Posted June 16, 2013 There are some planes moving so slowly they didn't deserve a speed vector line... The jets stand out with there long vector line... Thanks for sharing, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 I got to really use and see the SkyguardTWX in action today on a flight across PA. I am most impressed with the unit and being able to see the traffic. I was fortunate enough to have one target cross my path 1500' above me so that I could get a visual on him and compare that to what I was seeing on Foreflight. I tried to take a video of it but was unable to find the airplane using the iPhone video capture. I did see it visually though and it was right on the money! The video is in the link below and also some screen shots. Ok Brett... Moving closer to buying something. Was VFR this evening coming back from the ocean. Stopped at Georgetown for dinner (PIREP on the new restaurant Arenas later) and was climbing through 3k when my wife asked if "that plane should be that close?". I tipped my wing and saw I was climbing up and converging with a Piper Cherokee. "Er, no that would be a problem". I could not see him because he was above and slightly to the right. My wife was in the right rear seat and my son in the front seat. So for once she was a good back seat driver. I'm really torn on the direction to go with this. Without the "out" capabilities I might have seen him since I was close to Dover and perhaps someone was pumping "out". But then again, most of the commercial traffic was a bit further north. So... Here are my thoughts: Garmin Pilot - I really like how Garmin Pilot works. The GUI works for me. What I don't like is that the GDL-39 is Bluetooth only and will only work with my Garmin Pilot. Cost: $700 (never like the "99" thing, it's $700 BUCKS!). In order to get the "out" capabilities, I would need to buy the SkyGuard or equivalent. I see SkyGuard will soon be selling an "out" only solution for $975. So, for $1675, I could have a portable solution. ForeFlight - I like most of the FF features, but wish it had a split screen and my personal pet peeve is the IFR charts for departure/destination not being automatically stuck in their own binder. ForeFlight does work with the Aspen Avionics gear and when the CG50 is available, I can then port over my weather to the Aspen display using the portable antennae. The problem with FF for me as well will be that it is not compatible with my Nexus 7. So I would need to factor in a iPad Mini since my iPad 2 is just too big to be yoke mounted. Cost: $900 for the Stratus 2, $975 for the SkyGuard Vision Pro and $529 for the Mini. Total: $2384. WingX - other than trying out Mike's a bit, I am not too sure about it. When I hear people talking about it, they either love it or hate it, I also think people either love or hate Hilton as well. Not sure what is driving that. Maybe I will spend the 99 cents and give it a try. The annual cost is more than FF or Garmin. I think it comes in over $200 per year. Cost: $1475. The price allows for ADS-B out and full weather and traffic. WingX is also compatible with Aspen Avionics and I can port weather over using the CG50. Keep me posted on your FF/Stratus/SkyGuardTWX experience. BTW -- on your video, in between 27 and 28 seconds you can see a momentary metallic flash of the traffic. The camera is just not quite able to focus but you can see the location of the other plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Chris all I can really say about the SkyguardTWX unit (ADS-B out) is that it definitely works great. My shop is going to install a power receptacle on the hat shelf and that is where the unit will reside. As Byron points out these boxes aren't for everybody as they do have a couple wires coming out of them. There are two wires that need to be mounted on a window so I have one going to each rear window and this setup appears to be working quite well. The only time I ever see this setup being even the slightest bit cumbersome is when I have baggage piled up to the ceiling as when we took our family vacation last year. But even then, it would've worked just with a bit of maneuvering. It's a good trade off for me as I am able to get the entire traffic picture for $975 + whatever it's going to be for the shop to install the power receptacle. It's certainly not optimum as I will have to remember to plug the unit in before hopping up front or turning on the A/P and climbing in the back to plug it in once airborne. Mine was an easy decision to go with Stratus because I'm stuck on Foreflight. although I keep an active subscription to Garmin Pilot also. IMO either one of these are great choices and I"m sure they'll be here for a long time. My rationale for trying and now keeping the SkyguardTWX box was that I wanted the traffic picture and it was either spend multiple thousands of bucks for a transponder + installation or try the magic box. If I get the opportunity sometime down the road to upgrade my panel then I'll go the route of the transponder with the ES on it. But for now, this solution was cost effective and seems to be working great. For me. Anytime I'm going from point A to point B it is on an IFR flight plane. However, I play a lot too just around the local area and it's nice to have that traffic picture during those times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Maybe I am too old for all these tablet display technologies but I fail to see the advantage of it. Comparing them to my old trusty G530AW and my yoke mounted G560 I do not see any advantages. Here are some of my observations: 1. The tablets all use a cluttered VFR chart as a moving map that cannot be decluttered. This makes hard to discern airspace, intersections, airports an others. Because there is no black background to enhance the contrast the picture just wash out in sunlight. On the G530/G560 you can declutter to a desired level with a black bakground that significantly enhances the contrast in direct sunlight. The black background is the standard display mode on airliners navigation display. 2. When on track up mode heading south on the tablet all the map text is upside down. On the G530/560 the text always has the right orientation. 3. A very important feature to me is guidance. On the G530/560 I get lateral and vertical guidance, enroute and on approach all the way to the runway. On the 530 I can set the approach with just two key strokes. And cross check an LPV with an ILS approach just pushing the CDI button. The 560 has a synthetic HSI with lateral and vertical guidance that is very accurate. I notice that the tablets has no approach guidance. 4. One significant advantage of the 530 is that it can steer the autopilot all the way to the runway end. Why would you bother programming a flight plan on a tablet that cannot steer your plane. I know that not everybody has a G530 and that's probably were the tablet is useful. But I have seen planes having these tablets installed where they have a GTN-750. Do I am missing something? José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Hi Jose, The tablet technology has evolved pretty quickly and many of the features you are speaking about are built in or I expect to be at some point. Here is an example from Garmin Pilot. This is the black background map you spoke about. It is set for VFR. Same map, this time set for IFR: As well, there is a lot of flexibility in the setup menu to declutter. I was a solid portable aviation GPS owner for years starting with the Garmin 55, then 95XL through the more current stuff. Once I saw the tablet versions, it became clear, at least to me, that this technology will equal most of the portable capabilities in the near future. And considering the cost of entry of the hardware and apps, switching costs are reasonable - in aviation terms anyways. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted June 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Sorry, forgot to answer the rest of your comment. For me the first reason I use a tablet is for the charts. The add-on features of moving map, route planning, weather, traffic, etc. are all gravy. They make for a nice backup for the hardware I do have installed in the plane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Strong Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I have a 696 and WingX but on a trip from 14A to GGG recently while flying at 10,500 a, I believe it was a Citation, flew directly under me. This was about 5 Kts. east of Ashville, NC and I suspect he was approaching for a landing at Ashville. He may have been more but it looked like about the 500' interval to me. Wasn't a real good feeling and started my research on the UAT Transceiver. I am of the opinion that if it's legal it could well be worth the $1500. Finding space in my E could be a problem though. They advertise a 30 day unconditional return. I think I may give a try. I haven't pufchased a receiver for WingX as yet - only used it in the 3000' range where I can use the wifi from my cell phone with it. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with actual experience. Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Strong Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Thanks Jim - I think you're who sent me here. Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Strong Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I plan to stick around as, it my humble opinion is more informational than Mooniacs. I did find it on Beechtalk as well. I believe it worth the money but haven't been in a big hurry as I'm totally paid up on the 696 updates until April. I appreciate you help. Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Strong Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I plan to stick around as, it my humble opinion is more informational than Mooniacs. I did find it on Beechtalk as well. I believe it worth the money but haven't been in a big hurry as I'm totally paid up on the 696 updates until April. I appreciate you help. Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Welcome Tommy! I'm still researching the options. I see Zaon has the XRX price lowered. I wonder if is due to them planning on introducing a new model and moving existing inventory? After reading XRX comments from various sites, I'm lukewarm on it. The right answer is a TAS system but I'm having a hard time justifying that level of money. I am still looking at ADS-B solutions as well. I have finally made peace with WingX and got it working. Some features that I don't like are things like real time weather not being displayed on the map pages. They do have the best IMHO open hierachy approach to hardware interface. At this point I am waiting to see what Air Venture brings to the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Strong Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I think I'm in total agreement. I don't like the lack of weather on the moving map either - the 696 handles that well for now. I'm in a wait and see situation as well. Thanks, Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnicolette Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Finally got my power receptacle installed and am real happy with the results. So now I can just leave my ADS-B out box plugged in all the time and it is powered up when I turn on the master switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'm casually following along with no plans to purchase any of this stuff soon... I'll probably be the last person to get ADS-B coverage at home so I'm in no hurry. I also bet wrong 2 years ago and have a nice Android Xoom tablet that doesn't have many options for aviation apps. One of these years I guess I'll get an iPad, reluctantly. I am ready to ditch the XM subscription, though, and the good thing is it seems there is a very competitive market for portable ADS-B solutions and the prices are getting better. Well, I might be entering this arena sooner rather than later now... It seems the feds have actually been busy filling out the gaps in ADS-B coverage in my neck of the woods, so I'm ready to jump in. I'm not ready to buy an ipad yet, so I downloaded Garmin Pilot last night on my Xoom tablet and at first glance like what I see. I think I have a deal worked to get a loaner/demo GDL-39, so I plan to use it next week on a long trip to Delaware and maybe NYC. This will be a great opportunity to compare to XM weather on my trusty 496 and TIS traffic from my -330ES displayed on my 530W. Now I need to (quickly) figure out if my transponder and GPS software and configurations are setup properly to trigger ADS-B data in... I'm looking forward to this trip and fiddling with new-to-me technology and will of course give a full PIREP later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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