VFR into IMC

[Rwsavory]

Thanks for posting.  Before my IR I had two instances similar to yours.  Once going into mountainous terrain that was obscured by haze and once involving extremely hazy conditions right after takeoff.  In both instances I turned around and landed where I started.  I have to reiterate what has been said by others, the 180 is the best course of action in these circumstances.  

 

The one thing I will add that hasn't been mentioned is Practical Risk Management.  Look it up on Youtube and you will find a presentation by John and Martha King.  It will change your flying life for the better.  Oh, and go get your Instrument Rating; it will make your cross-country flying much easier and safer.

 

Cheers.

[Rwsavory]

Question. I have no autopilots, and 2 VOR's, 1 with a glidescope, no DME. Is that enough equipment for instrument work? I have a Garmin 155 that I was thinking about having installed to replace one of the VOR's. What are your thoughts?

 

Yes, that's enough equipment for IFR, assuming all of the other equipment requirements are met.  You must have your altimeter and transponder/encoding altimeter tested, for instance.  The GPS, assuming it will be IFR certified, would be a good choice to replace one of the VOR's, IMHO.

[pirate]

The day I earned my pilot cert the FAA examiner said son this is your ticket to learn, be careful.

Your learning and your alive, just don't repeat.

Great job!!!!!!!!

[M20F-1968]

You did what you knew and kept your head about you.  That all is good.

 

My first comment relates to your plea to instructors to take their students through the clouds.  You are correct, but a single or handful of exposures to actual IFR is not enough.  I was fortunate to live in Oregon when I was working on my IFR ticket.  I flew every weekend with a CFII, starting at 50 hours of total time to 130 hrs of total time, filing in the overcast, below the freezing level, and in the clouds.  So mostly all of my IFR training was in actual conditions.  This was invaluable.  It did this time in an IFR equipped Grumman Tiger with a wing leveler which my instructor did not let me use.  So it was all hand flown.  Also invaluable. 

 

AS a VFR pilot, you should have recognized the haze creaping up on you and closing in.  This are visions I also still remember from my VFR days in Oregon with 2500 ft ceilings and much fog.  You were also luck that this did not occur when there was a possibilty of icing. 

 

As you continue your IFR training (and you should do that), try to find days when you can file in actual conditions with your instructor.  It truely is not the same as wearing foggles.  Your instructor should also let you make your own decisions and be there just to keep you out of trouble.

 

You should not give up flying due to this experience.  Just let it be your first reminder that you need to:

 

1) recognize your own limitations, as well as those of the aircraft

2) learn to question everything, and develope a keen sens of distrust concerning things that you may not knw - remember , you do not always recognize what you do not know and need to be viligant.

3) Every flight is different - learn to look at the big picture, and react to those things both obvious and less obvious.

4) ALWAYS HAVE AN OUT.

 

Be safe,

John Breda

[robert7467]

Well, as a VFR pilot flying into IMC is in my opinion is the worst that can happen, thunderstorms included. Now I am scared shitless of being on top of a layer of clouds, and my personal minimums have now increased drastically to make sure 100% that I will not be in that situation again. I am lucky to be on the ground alive to ponder what I should do next. Now when I look up at the sky, I am having flashbacks of what happened, and it will probably take a while for me to get over this. This has been a very humbling experience to say the least.

[201er]

Sometimes a humbling experience is worth its weight in gold...

[thinwing]

Two vors plus glidescope and no dme is enough to train by but for serious long distance IFR (single pilot)not very adequate.It is good enough to climb out over local weather or descend into local weather but for hour after hour in the clag you really want an autopilot.The 155 is ifr capable if installed correctly and with its little display at least offers up a moving map...huge for situational awareness hopefully you could find the panel space to keep both navcoms and the gps.I bet you find a lot of instrument pilots who disagree but in my opinion extensive single pilot IFR should not be attempted with out a working auto pilot.It is simply too much work hour after hour for one guy.

[AmigOne]

Robert, the equipment that you have is more than I had in my Cherokee 140 more that 40 years ago! One radio was a Narco Mark 12 with an ILS but the other was a Genave in which you either talked or navigated but not both. No DME an certainly no autopilot. Yet my first ILS in IMC at night was almost to minimums and we came right over the runway. My instructor said that I was so happy to see the runway that I landed 3 times. Fast forward a few thousand hours, add 3 GPS, (also no a/p) moving map, etc and last month on a localizer approach after a couple of hours of flying in light to moderate turbulence I overshot the loc. The controller, with a bit of impatience and exaggeration, said "you are nowhere near the localizer" Boy did that hurt and why did it happen? Too much screwing around trying to set up 3 different kinds of GPS. Had I been flying with my trusted Mark 12 and paying more attention to my flying and less to all the gadgets I'm sure it would not have happened. O perhaps I knew the ceiling was well above the MDA so I relaxed.

The good thing about what happened to you is that most likely it will never happen again.

[Marauder]

Robert -- Until December, I was flying IFR on a regular basis with a Narco Mark 12D+ and a TKM slide in for a KX-170B -- both with glideslopes. I had a DME that was channeled and nice ADF to listen to music as I flying an approach (joking). As AmigOne mentions, technology doesn't automatically improve your instrument flying. In fact, I still feel like I am on the learning curve when it comes to the GPS approaches. What is more important is that the hardware you do have works and you have confidence it won't let you down.

[KSMooniac]

I have nothing more to add to the discussion other than an echo of all the previous comments.  You did well in that you kept your wits and recovered from a situation that you put yourself into.  That is a very valuable learning experience.  Flying VFR on top of an undercast can lead to all kinds of illusions if there is another layer or more above you.  I think now you can see the value in the instrument rating, and you should plan to start lessons today and keep flying.  You'll find it to be the best thing you can do to improve your own safety and make your plane more useful for XC travel, even with your current equipment.  Many of learned long before GPS became prevalent, much less moving maps, and today you can add a 496 or iPad or whatever and have a safe IFR plane.  Go for it!

[moodychief]

I have 500 hours flying my C model without an autopilot in some serious IFR. I flew a friends J model with all the bells and whistles for three hours without touching the controls (including the approach). It was nice but made me realize a person will get rusty real fast if they aren't hand-flying their plane on a regular basis.

[kmyfm20s]

The hardest turn in aviation...........the 180!

[Z W]

I was looking at the terminal area forcast on foreflight, when weather planning. Like I said, the weather did exactly what I expected it to, it was just the haze creating the illusion that the tops below me were coming up, and the ceilings at 25000 were coming down. It looked like we were heading strait for a wall of clouds, but it was just an illusion.

 

The TAFs shown to you on Foreflight are different from the Area Forecast I'm describing.  You can find them here:

 

http://www.aviationweather.gov/products/fa/

 

 

Foreflight will not show them to you anywhere except in your DUATS briefing if you opt to "Brief" or "File and Brief" the flight.

 

TAFs are great for predicting the weather at your departure, destination, and alternate.  For everything in between, you need to use the Area Forecast.  For example, it may have contained a warning for haze in eastern Missouri / western Tennessee at your cruise altitude.  The TAFs will only warn you if haze is expected on the ground at the field.

 

All VFR pilots should be very cautious flying into haze.  You can be in IMC in haze without going anywhere near a cloud.  It sounds like that may have happened to you, and if so, you did a good job dealing with the situation.

[FlyDave]

I'll just echo what everyone else said but add that you will look back on this experience in a couple of years and realize how important it is to your flying career. You're already a better pilot - although a little shaken up. The shaken up part will abate in time. But this experience provides a number of things, the least of which is your recognition that you have already competently and safely dealt with a situation like this. As others have said, people get into these kinds of situations all the time. But your candor about the situation and the caution you show now tells me you'll be fine going forward.

Private Pilot, Instrument and all the other ratings truly are a license to learn. If you ever stop learning you better stop flying!

[201er]

All VFR pilots should be very cautious flying into haze.  You can be in IMC in haze without going anywhere near a cloud.  It sounds like that may have happened to you, and if so, you did a good job dealing with the situation.

Although I 100% agree with you that VFR pilots should be cautious, I can't think of any situation in which haze would constitute IMC.

[robert7467]

For now, I am still shaken up by this. I will not fly XC unless its 100% clear, or if the ceilings are 4000 XC and I can fly below. As long as I am up high enough, and I can see the ground, I can confidently perform a forced landing if the engine quits. As far as getting an instrument rating goes, if I continue to fly, it will still be VFR, because I hate that feeling of flying without being able to see the ground, and be able to plan a forced landing. So even IFR rating won't exactly prevent me from feeling what I did yesterday, which was helpless. I am at a crossroads here. The cloud cover out today didn't help matters much when I was looking up at the sky, I am having flashbacks. I have to tell myself that aviation can be safe, under the right conditions. Maybe I will pull myself together, maybe not. Time will only tell.

[Z W]

Although I 100% agree with you that VFR pilots should be cautious, I can't think of any situation in which haze would constitute IMC.

Haze can reduce visibility below 3 miles. Legally that is IMC. I have seen it before where haze removed the horizon and I was using instruments. You can usually see the ground straight down but forward is a big light and dark blur.

[robert7467]

In this case, even with the haze, I had at least 10 miles. The haze created the illusion that the cloud base below was coming up, and the could base above was coming down, and it looked like I was going to run into a wall of clouds. A matter a fact , this haze made me see traffic better, because it decluttered everything..... Illusions illusions illusions.

[Hector]

Robert, we have all been there!! If you ever find a pilot with any significant time that tells you he has not made a bad decision he is either lying or he is lying!! do not give up now. This is a learning experience, one of many. Like others have said, get your instrument ticket. It will make you a better pilot and it will open greatly the types of weather you can fly in. It does not mean you can fly into thunderstorms, but it does mean you will not break into a sweat every time you see a cloud layer or some haze. In the mean time, keep flying brother, and if things don't look good ahead a 180 will typically fix the problem.

[Riq]

Great read, and I appreciate your candor.

 

When I got my ppl, my instructor told me, "got time to spare, go by air", meaning with vfr youll wait for weather A LOT.

 

I have found this to be totally true, and the first couple years my family and I slept/waited in numerous fbos, small airports, hotels, etc for wx to break.

 

Thank goodness for great/understanding parents/babysitters and employers.

[carusoam]

+46

Best regards,

-a-

[robert7467]

At what point does the unexpected stop? I have had a lot of things come up on, and luckily I have been able to handle it. At what point should I feel safe enough to know that I have been through all the illusions, and phenomena that is related to flying to take my kids up again? So far I have been through:

 

Door opening twice during takeoff. (I figured out the cause, the intercom button would turn sideways and lift the latch up) The first time happened during my first solo without instructor watching.

 

During final of one of the door opening episodes, my yoke was sticking on the door handle.

 

Wide runway illusion that cause me to flare at 50’ above the runway, which I resolved with practice.

 

After 100hrs I experienced some sort of wind shear during takeoff, and I slammed on my right rudder to correct. I also had it happen a second time recently, but now I expect it to happen, and I am prepared for it.

 

Lost electrical twice (which is now fixed).

 

Landing light going out during takeoff roll. After that, my instructor made me do 3 landings without landing light.

 

Scud Running at 2000’ with ice building up. (I had instrument rated instructor with me, with plenty of airports in route so non-issue)

 

VRF into IMC- The odds were against me, but I survived because of training, and keeping calm. I forgot to add, ATC told me to report right base for 22. I reported right base, and was cleared to land, then a Cirrus reported 2 mile final, and he was cleared to land. I did a 360 and followed him in.

 

It seems for a 100 hr pilot, that I have been through it all, but I know there are other things out there that I need to look out for. Now I know, I need real training. Not the cover your ass just to meet the FAA regs training, but real world training. When obtaining a pilot’s license, the FAA tends to focus more on obsolete navigation, plotting, and all these mathematical equations, when really we are just going to tune into a VOR, or plug it in a GPS, and plan it out on a computer. I worked very hard on my PPL ticket, but I feel like they just handed me my ticket, knowing there is going to be some real dangers that most pilots are not experienced to deal with, and wished me luck on not becoming a statistic. After researching my VFR into IMC issue, I am very fortunate that I didn’t get the leans, or some other illusion that I was NEVER told about.

 

I do know one thing for sure, if I continue on, I will defiantly take a more serious, professional approach to this. As far as flying my family, this has taken a bad toll on me, and I don’t ever want to put my helpless family in that situation again. I don’t know if I will ever recover from this, it is absolutely eating me up inside. I have 2 of the sweetest little boys, who slept in the back seat while they were in a situation with a statistically 10% chance of survival. It’s really hard looking at them in their sweet little eyes, knowing my decisions put them in that kind of danger. I am defiantly not the bubble type. I have been sky diving, I ride dirt bikes, I fly airplanes, and I love adventure.

[gregwatts]

^{No offence, but as a 100 hr pilot, you have seen very little. There are things that come up all the time....and with each 100 hrs you gain, you get better at assessing the situation and dealing with it. I have nearly 6000 hrs....and have not seen it all. You made some miscalculations, but dealt with it......now move on. Just try to learn from your experiences. You had a properly functioning airplane......next time you may have weather AND a mechanical malfunction. There are no absolutes in flying.}

 

 

 

 

^{My opinion only!}

[robert7467]

Speaking of Mechanical issues, and weather early on, my partner exp both. He had an electrical issue, smoke filling cabin, so he switched everything off, then it turned into IMC in the mountains. He managed to survive it.

[201er]

Cash out while it's still worth something.