Hank Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I thought we ground our planes because they pick up a static charge from altitude / speed, while our cars don't. BUT, never fill a portable gas tank while it's in the car or back of the truck, always set it on the ground--I've seen videos of them catching fire during filling while in a pickup truck. Then again, pumping gas creates a static charge in the gas itself, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201er Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Just now, Hank said: I thought we ground our planes because they pick up a static charge from altitude / speed, while our cars don't. BUT, never fill a portable gas tank while it's in the car or back of the truck, always set it on the ground--I've seen videos of them catching fire during filling while in a pickup truck. Then again, pumping gas creates a static charge in the gas itself, too. That's just what the gas lobby wants you to think! All lies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, 201er said: That's just what the gas lobby wants you to think! All lies! Same reason that people can't pump their own gas in New Jersey, too much of a fire hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: They plugged the overflow and pulled a (partial) vacuum on the tank using a vacuum cleaner? Sounds dangerous to suck gasoline fumes through a device with electric motor. But what do I know. Could be a useful trick if one knew that it was perfectly safe. That would make for a great flame thrower! Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Things I learned about fueling in NJ... There is additional Engineering that goes into the car version. Vapor is actually vacuumed away from the tank as fuel is delivered. expect that the car hose actually has some grounding as well. But, the initial spark, can be dangerously nearby the fuel tank's Neck... static builds up on cars equally well. Slide off a vinyl seat as you exit, you can get a memorable discharge. This trick requires dry air that is available during most winters in NJ. Winter temps have a tendency to lower gas vaporization. We have or had a temp in NJ, It got so hot, the gas pumps were not allowed to operate... this was probably environmental not safety. Ozone /smog concern. if you don't recognize the engineering changes... fuel hoses no longer touch the ground. They are concentric hoses. The center is for fueling, the outer is for vacuuming out and collecting the vapors and overspill. The vapor collector is sealed in place and working before the nozzle is all the way in. The nozzle is ultra sensitive to being in the tank and senses the backpressure as the fuel in the tank reaches the nozzle. The fire suppression system is very visible and highly automated. Modern automobiles don't require removing the fuel cap. The fuel nozzle slides into a perfectly fitting/sealing hole in the cap. My wife, said 'go check the cap, I didn't hear it click.' picture the angry voice of a Jersey girl who knows the fill station attendant didn't do something right with her rental car... three seconds, open the outer door by pressing in on it. See hole in center of cap. Think up a creative story to relieve her stress... know the truth isn't going to work. Next, get equally creative story to match when the son goes to fill the same tank for the ride home. Kids think they know everything! Now go see the diesel hose at the next island. Long hose, running on the ground, thin, no vapor collector or overspill hardware. Passenger cars are intentionally different than trucks. Some things are hard to separate. People drive around in diesel cars and some use a pick-up truck as a daily driver... life was simple back in the day. Only problem was... it was simple. PP ideas only, not a fuel transfer engineer... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, carusoam said: Things I learned about fueling in NJ... Sounds like the regulators in NJ know what they are doing. Trusting their own citizens to do their own fueling would require a degree in physics, environmental science and mechanical engineering. Who knew? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Education provided by a crew of legal experts, I'm sure. Exxon has been moving out of state over the last decade or so. Taxes just increased on the per gallon fuel price. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Airports usually follow what is called (IIRC ) Fire Code 406 (???) which deals with a lot of things including airport hangars. If there is airline service at the airport you can bet they follow it closely as part of their Part 139 Airport Certification. Basically no fueling inside hangars (fumes come out as fuel goes in and hug the floor as they flow around). On draining tanks? Never use a plastic 5 gallon bucket without an approved grounding system. This was brought into focus one day (long ago) when I put a bucket under a C182 wing drain and after a gallon or so drained out I want to move the bucket a little on the top of the ladder and when I got close to the bucket the hair on my arms stood out with static electricity. All the fumes going down the sides of the bucket and 1 spark? I got a wet towel and grounded the bucket and then used a metal bucket after that. Now back to our regular program- I'm fighting the same drain issue as we go to press here. In my case the outside seal against the wing won't seal. I may have to order new plugs today. Thanks for looking up the correct p/n for me :-) :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 In a real bind you can always jamb a wooden lead pencil end into the drain to stop the leaking. The O ring between the drain and the skin is normally an MS29513-014, a bit of seal lube applied before installation helps O ring life. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just now, M20Doc said: In a real bind you can always jamb a wooden lead pencil end into the drain to stop the leaking. The O ring between the drain and the skin is normally an MS29513-014, a bit of seal lube applied before installation helps O ring life. Clarence And if it becomes dislodged during flight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just now, flyboy0681 said: And if it becomes dislodged during flight? It's only a stop gap measure to allow you to get another prior to flying. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy0681 Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 1 minute ago, M20Doc said: It's only a stop gap measure to allow you to get another prior to flying. Clarence My apologies, when you said if you find yourself "in a real bind" I thought that meant if you are at an airport with no services and you need to depart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooneymite Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 8 minutes ago, M20Doc said: In a real bind you can always jamb a wooden lead pencil end into the drain to stop the leaking. In a real bind you won't be able to find a wooden pencil!!! Can you imagine the poor pilot with his finger stuck over the drain pleading for help at a deserted airport? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2016 Report Share Posted December 29, 2016 12 minutes ago, Mooneymite said: In a real bind you won't be able to find a wooden pencil!!! Can you imagine the poor pilot with his finger stuck over the drain pleading for help at a deserted airport? Being of Dutch decent, I came equipped for stopping leaks. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: In a real bind you can always jamb a wooden lead pencil end into the drain to stop the leaking. The O ring between the drain and the skin is normally an MS29513-014, a bit of seal lube applied before installation helps O ring life. Clarence A golf Tee may also work. Just good enough for while you go to get (or empty) a bucket. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 I just tear a piece of rag and twist it into the hole. Just a slight drip if its done correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 14 hours ago, cliffy said: I just tear a piece of rag and twist it into the hole. Just a slight drip if its done correctly. I did the same thing for an old car I had that was missing it's gas cap. It felt like I was driving an unlit Molotov cocktail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herlihy Brother Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 I can confirm Don's Suggestion that a golf tee is the perfect fit. When Mine stuck open on a cold morning away from home the FBO drove his golf cart over and gave me a tee saying he kept these on hand just for this purpose. My drains originally came from the factory Riveted into the wing. Lasar installed new ones when I acquired the E (mfg in nov 1963) in 1999. When drilling the wing skin for the new style drains, make sure you don't drill through the wing spar cap like I heard some people have done. We had one wood wing A model at the field that I noticed the pilot used golf tees as a permanent fix. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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