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Buyers want turnkey houses and airplanes. A runout won't sell. I tried. At 1850 we put in a fresh engine to sell it.

I'm curious if you believe that you got the full cost of the overhaul out of the sale? If not how much did you lose? Also what type of overhaul was it ie nationally known engine mfg/shop. Reman. Factory new or field overhaul? Thanks

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I would expect to find two distinct markets...

- first time buyer.

And

- second Mooney buyer.

The first market is hoping to get a mid time engine.

The second is hoping for a fully worn out out one. You guys already know what market you are in!

I fixed my post above regarding my recent engine install. Factory reman for me...

Best regards,

-a-

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I would expect to find two distinct markets...

- first time buyer.

And

- second Mooney buyer.

The first market is hoping to get a mid time engine.

The second is hoping for a fully worn out out one. You guys already know what market you are in!

I fixed my post above regarding my recent engine install. Factory reman for me...

Best regards,

-a-

Except being a first time buyer I deliberately bought a close to TBO engine (1600) in order to be able to overhaul it my way.

Except I got the wrong plane.

Steve65:

Paint is original but looks very good .. The best at my airport except fr new paint jobs.

Interior looks new, with the panels white (insted of yellowing), seats and panels are not leather but in top shape ..(like new) .. Previous owner did interior in 2010.

I am hoping the looks make it sell :) at least thats how I fell for it. Also I liked the post 86 models, with all mods built in, epoxy primer instead of zinc chromate (better corrosion resistance apparently) .. Corrosion Xed aircraft etc ..

Will see what happens.

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I went with an overhaul on my A3B6D from a local shop, as recommended by my A&P. he's been hanging motors from this shop for 15 years without issue. I've only put 50 hours on the motor since the overhaul (since October), but have had no problems. Total cost: 17500.

For what it's worth, my motor was a lycoming reman when the cam/tappets spalled out at 350 SMOH. I suspect that quality control at lycoming was in part to blame during the period my motor was overhauled. The big advantage to the new factory remans is the roller tappets. A luxury you pay about ~$10,000 for... But in the long run could save you dearly. I rolled the dice with the shop- check back with me in 5-7 years to see if it payed off....

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I wonder if someone has compiled any data on factory overhauls versus field overhauls and the number of hours they last. My suspicion is that if you put new cylinders, pistons, camshafts, and lifters in a field overhaul, they are basically the same thing, minus roller lifters. The downside is, to get a field overhaul with these things new, it brings the cost up to 22 grand, which narrows the premium paid for the roller cam and lifters.

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I wonder if someone has compiled any data on factory overhauls versus field overhauls and the number of hours they last. My suspicion is that if you put new cylinders, pistons, camshafts, and lifters in a field overhaul, they are basically the same thing, minus roller lifters. The downside is, to get a field overhaul with these things new, it brings the cost up to 22 grand, which narrows the premium paid for the roller cam and lifters.

That's true. The O/H on my motor was all new except the cylinders: I had them overhauled as they were first run with only 350 hrs on them. Again another risk.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Buyers want turnkey houses and airplanes. A runout won't sell. I tried. At 1850 we put in a fresh engine to sell it.

 

 

Not necessarily true.  1850 hours was a tough sell because it was "close to TBO".  Pricing a plane with a few hours left is problematic because the seller sees value in those few hours, whereas buyers mentally compute "run-out".

 

I know several people who like planes with run-outs because they want to choose the replacement engine.  The problem always comes that the seller and prospective buyers can't agree on price.  Most sellers are unwilling to discount their planes enough to cover the cost of the run-out.

 

An additional benefit to buying a "run-out" is that often it is not truly run-out, it's just at/beyond TBO.  Very often there are many "free" hours left in a high time engine if the plane can be bought at the full run-out discount and then flown beyond TBO.

 

However, I generally agree with the "don't buy a project" adage.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I know in a couple of years I will make the move to a faster Mooney. After owning this one for about a year and a half I agree with a lot said here about overhauling yourself. My AP had to mop up lots of the original AP work...engine work done well but install and such sloppy.

But the other side of the story is ...for those of us that finance some banks will not finance an overhaul at the time of sale...just as is...I know some will, but the one I use currently will not. So as a buyer I will have to pay cash for an overhaul or find another bank. That's a lot of cash to fork over. But maybe I will revisit the bank situation.

If i go that route, the perfect buy for me will be, if the bank cooperates, a run out, and enough room in the loan to overhaul and add anything missing.

Course I have a matter of repairs to complete first.....but that is another story.

On another note....I have had two dealers approach me on airfields to ask if I would like to sell...within the last week...so there seems to be movement out there. Both wanted me to consider B brands.

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I know in a couple of years I will make the move to a faster Mooney. After owning this one for about a year and a half I agree with a lot said here about overhauling yourself. My AP had to mop up lots of the original AP work...engine work done well but install and such sloppy.

But the other side of the story is ...for those of us that finance some banks will not finance an overhaul at the time of sale...just as is...I know some will, but the one I use currently will not. So as a buyer I will have to pay cash for an overhaul or find another bank. That's a lot of cash to fork over. But maybe I will revisit the bank situation.

If i go that route, the perfect buy for me will be, if the bank cooperates, a run out, and enough room in the loan to overhaul and add anything missing.

Course I have a matter of repairs to complete first.....but that is another story.

On another note....I have had two dealers approach me on airfields to ask if I would like to sell...within the last week...so there seems to be movement out there. Both wanted me to consider B brands.

Tell them they can have your mooney when they pry it from your cold, dead hands!!! ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Speaking about owners of an older airplane doing a field overhaul as opposed to a factory reman....I have posted here and asked you guys for your criteria for determing when an engine needs to be "put out to pasture."  Consensus seems to be an abundance of metal in the oil, low compression, cracked case, high oil consumption, etc.  My question here is, let's say that compression is good in 3 out of 4, oil consumption is low, what is the consensus on replacing only the effected jug and continuing on and replacing other cylinders as they individually loose compression or other symptoms develop?

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Speaking about owners of an older airplane doing a field overhaul as opposed to a factory reman....I have posted here and asked you guys for your criteria for determing when an engine needs to be "put out to pasture." Consensus seems to be an abundance of metal in the oil, low compression, cracked case, high oil consumption, etc. My question here is, let's say that compression is good in 3 out of 4, oil consumption is low, what is the consensus on replacing only the effected jug and continuing on and replacing other cylinders as they individually loose compression or other symptoms develop?
You do what you need to do to get the maximum life out of the engine while not causing harm to your own life... If I feel uncomfortable with my engine, it is time...
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Cylinders can be replaced, one at a time. They cost $1-2k.

This is probably not a normal situation. My C sat for a couple of years prior to purchase and got a cylinder replacement after it's first year because a stuck valve turned into a bent valve.

You get what you pay for...

You don't get what you don't pay for...

Best regards,

-a-

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  • 6 years later...
On 3/7/2013 at 10:28 PM, M016576 said:

I went with an overhaul on my A3B6D from a local shop, as recommended by my A&P. he's been hanging motors from this shop for 15 years without issue. I've only put 50 hours on the motor since the overhaul (since October), but have had no problems. Total cost: 17500.

 

For what it's worth, my motor was a lycoming reman when the cam/tappets spalled out at 350 SMOH. I suspect that quality control at lycoming was in part to blame during the period my motor was overhauled. The big advantage to the new factory remans is the roller tappets. A luxury you pay about ~$10,000 for... But in the long run could save you dearly. I rolled the dice with the shop- check back with me in 5-7 years to see if it payed off....

I'm checking back with you 7 years later to see if it paid off.

Edited by Volare
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Job,

First I thought I admired your memory...

Then I thought I admired your current knowledge of your old plane...

Now... I really really admire your forethought...! :)  (Check back in 7-10 years!)

Perfect timing Volare!

 

Man, time flys at Mooney speeds!

best regards,

-a-

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10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Job,

First I thought I admired your memory...

Then I thought I admired your current knowledge of your old plane...

Now... I really really admire your forethought...! :)  (Check back in 7-10 years!)

Perfect timing Volare!

 

Man, time flys at Mooney speeds!

best regards,

-a-

This is what happens when newbies use the search function. Old posts get resurrected!

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On 1/23/2020 at 6:07 PM, carusoam said:

Job,

First I thought I admired your memory...

Then I thought I admired your current knowledge of your old plane...

Now... I really really admire your forethought...! :)  (Check back in 7-10 years!)

Perfect timing Volare!

 

Man, time flys at Mooney speeds!

best regards,

-a-

I really do love that airplane, and enjoy following it’s tail on flight aware.  The only reason I “moved up” was for the extra climb performance and TKS “safety blanket.”  Now that I’m back in an area with a much reduced icing risk, I’d be content to go back to my “first mooney love.” (Although I’d miss the speed and extra useful load of the Missile!)

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