RIP Hugo

[DaV8or]

Gasoline is 12c a gallon there as well. But WTFDIK?

 

Venezuela has the cheapest gas in the world. Currently at .18 cents a gallon. It's cheaper than water, or milk, or nearly anything else in that country. The government heavily subsidizes it and sells it at a huge loss. In the past, the government has tried to raise the price, but when they did, huge riots broke out, so they learned not to mess with the price of gas.

 

All is well as long as the price of crude stays high, then the government can afford the gasoline give away, but a few years ago I remember reading about how the price of crude dropped and suddenly the gasoline production became a huge drain on government finances along with Hugo buying up second rate military hardware as fast as he could. Again, raising the price of gasoline was out of the question, so other services went by the wayside. As is typical of dictators and showboat tyrants, their economic policies are terrible and he was running the country into the ground. We are here too, but we still have good credit and can borrow, Venezuela does not.

[Hank]

I'm just puzzled by the connection between South American politics and flying our Mooneys. Mine will never go that far regardless of who is in office in Venezuela.

[FlyDave]

I'm just puzzled by the connection between South American politics and flying our Mooneys. Mine will never go that far regardless of who is in office in Venezuela.

+1

I really liked José's post - pretty darn funny!

But I will not participate in political "discussions" in this forum as they do nothing but cause friction. I can get bombarded with that kind of bullshit in 97% of the internet - I prefer to keep Mooneyspace in the other 3%!

[carusoam]

As a compromise, let's keep politics to this thread.

Keep this thread alive, just don't bring all political views to all threads.

The world is not well covered in US news.

Thoughts of a former world traveller and loyal MooneySpace participant.

Best regards,

-a-

[AmigOne]

To clarify what I said about "the president not being a socialist" I was referring to those who call President Obama a socialist.  Chavez was a socialist and as we all know from the news there are millions of Venezuelans happy that he was one.  Throughout history in Latin America corrupt governments which did nothing for the people they governed but steal were deposed only to be followed by populist/socialist governments that did a lot but the wrong way.  Frankly, of the two evils I'd take the second one.  As to the expropriation of american oil interests in Venezuela I'd say, "frankly, I don't give dam"  Lets not forget that a former CEO of EXxon said that Exxon was not an american oil company, it was an oil company and that his loyalty was to his stockholders.

[jetdriven]

He was elected 4 times by his people (with over 75-80% voter turnout) and reduced poverty by half, perhaps the Venezuelan people liked him.  I'm still not sure why people here hate him so much, perhaps since its because we were told to, because he told Chevron to take a hike?

[flyboy0681]

Oh, but he threw out Chevron, so he must be evil.

 

Obviously you don't get it. Exxon is only one, well publicized example. By your responses I assume you're OK with the government taking over utilities as well, including water and power. And by the mere fact that he had to seek medical treatment outside of his own country tells me that healthcare isn't so great there either. Shutting down media that didn't agree with his views doesn't sit well with me either. It's no secret he was popular with the poor, but when you have absolutely nowhere to go but up, why shouldn't he be popular? Like I said, talk to ex-pats with family still there and you may change your tune. Then again.

 

I may be in a minority here, but anytime someone from my own hemisphere pals around with the likes of Ahmadinejad, the Castro Bros, Putin and members of Hamas - and given enough time, Kim Jung Un - it can't be good.

[jetdriven]

But can you respect that the people of Venezuela voted him in 4 times and that is none of our business?

[fantom]

You attending the funeral, Byron?

[flyboy0681]

But can you respect that the people of Venezuela voted him in 4 times and that is none of our business?

 

America's interests are wide-spread and diverse. If they suddenly decided to cut off the oil spigot to the US and send 100% of their production to China, we should all be concerned. Here's a cold hard fact, the top importers of oil into this country (in order) are Canada, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Mexico.

[jetdriven]

America's interests are wide-spread and diverse. If they suddenly decided to cut off the oil spigot to the US and send 100% of their production to China, we should all be concerned. Here's a cold hard fact, the top importers of oil into this country (in order) are Canada, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Mexico.

 

Sure, our interests are. However, the Saudis pretty much directly fund terrorism and Bin Laden masterminded the WTC attack. Yet everytime we fill up our Tahoe's we complain about the 4$ a gallon while sending another 100$ in wealth over there. The key difference between the Saudis (who have a royal family, no elections), and Venezuela (Chavez elected 4 times), in this case, is the Saudis cooperate with us, while Venezuela tells us how its going to be.  America loves terrorists and dictators, as long as they listen to us and do our bidding. The news sites continuously remind us why we hate them.  When they don't, they often get overthrown in their own country and we install our new favorite puppet.

Check it out:

 

1953, Iran – CIA overthrows the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadegh in a military coup, after he threatened to nationalize British oil. The CIA replaces him with a dictator, the Shah of Iran, whose secret police, SAVAK, is as brutal as the Gestapo.

 

 

1954, Guatemala — CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

 

1965, Congo (Zaire) — A CIA-backed military coup installs Mobutu Sese Seko as dictator. The hated and repressive Mobutu exploits his desperately poor country for billions. In the 70s he would charter Corcorde to take his wife shopping in New York City.

 

1967, Greece — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents. When a Greek ambassador objects to President Johnson about U.S. plans for Cypress, Johnson tells him: "F### your parliament and your constitution."

 

1970, Cambodia — The CIA overthrows Prince Sahounek, who is highly popular among Cambodians for keeping them out of the Vietnam War. He is replaced by CIA puppet Lon Nol, who immediately throws Cambodian troops into battle. This unpopular move strengthens once minor opposition parties like the Khmer Rouge, which achieves power in 1975 and massacres millions of its own people.

 

1989, Panama — The U.S. invades Panama to overthrow a dictator of its own making, General Manuel Noriega. Noriega has been on the CIA’s payroll since 1966, and has been transporting drugs with the CIA’s knowledge since 1972. By the late 80s, Noriega’s growing independence and intransigence have angered Washington… so out he goes.

 

1990, The Gulf War — The U.S. liberates Kuwait from Iraq. But Iraq’s dictator, Saddam Hussein, is another creature of the CIA. With U.S. encouragement, Hussein invaded Iran in 1980. During this costly eight-year war, the CIA built up Hussein’s forces with sophisticated arms, intelligence, training and financial backing. This cemented Hussein’s power at home, allowing him to crush the many internal rebellions that erupted from time to time, sometimes with poison gas. It also gave him all the military might he needed to conduct further adventurism — in Kuwait, for example.

 

 

So again, what gives us the right to interfere? Cheap gasoline?  

I really dont care much about Chavez or Venezuela. I do care about my country meddling in the affairs of soverign nations, as much as I care about them meddling in our business.

 

 

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

[Piloto]

The reason why Chavez is getting embalmed for permanent display is because of his last wish:

"please don't let Fidel use his shovel on me".

 

Amen

 

 

José

[flyboy0681]

Sure, our interests are.

 

 

I'll invoke some of the last words uttered by the HAL  9000: "this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."

[jetdriven]

HAL must have been using some of the same logic you do. 

[Piloto]

Fidel counterpart in the US:

 

José

[jetdriven]

America's interests are wide-spread and diverse. If they suddenly decided to cut off the oil spigot to the US and send 100% of their production to China, we should all be concerned. Here's a cold hard fact, the top importers of oil into this country (in order) are Canada, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Mexico.

 

And more thing, then I'll piss off.  I never heard back whether or not you agree that Chavez was a duly elected leader of his country and is not our business to meddle in their affairs. Further, would you agree that their oil is their property, and they can sell it to whomever they want to, or no-one at all? I wonder how people in the USA despise socialists, yet think they have rights to other countries' property.  

 

What do you think?

 

Like I've said before, I really dont care about Chavez or Venezuela. But what makes you think you have the right to someone else's property? 

[M016576]

Money, religion and politics.... Just sayin'

[fantom]

.....and sex, but maybe that's covered under money.

[RJBrown]

American companies are INVITED in to develop oil or other natural resources. Once up and running they are nationalized. That is the confiscation being argued FOR by jetdriven? Like others have stated THAT is wrong. Just because these socialist dictators can change the rules after the fact does not mean it is the right thing to do. Good to see Hugo gone, he deserved a short and miserable life.

[flyboy0681]

And more thing, then I'll piss off.

 

 

http://www.hark.com/clips/pwddmfpkxw-no-further-purpose-goodbye

[flyboy0681]

American companies are INVITED in to develop oil or other natural resources. Once up and running they are nationalized. That is the confiscation being argued FOR by jetdriven? Like others have stated THAT is wrong. Just because these socialist dictators can change the rules after the fact does not mean it is the right thing to do. Good to see Hugo gone, he deserved a short and miserable life.

 

Thanks for coming to my rescue.

[jetdriven]

American companies are INVITED in to develop oil or other natural resources. Once up and running they are nationalized. That is the confiscation being argued FOR by jetdriven? Like others have stated THAT is wrong. Just because these socialist dictators can change the rules after the fact does not mean it is the right thing to do. Good to see Hugo gone, he deserved a short and miserable life.

 

Did argue FOR that? No, I said that oil was their national resource and their property.  What gives you the right to claim that property?  FWIW the Saudis did nationalize Aramco back in the 50s, yet we are all still buddies with them. And they are a royal family, no elections.  Any of that disturb you?

 

So again, before you spew your hate about someone that really doesn't matter to you anyways, ask yourself why.

[fantom]

I've spent a fair amount of time in and around Caracas, Venezuela. The conspicuous consumption by the wealthy right alongside painful poverty is gut wrenching to this day. Arguing that their elections, if you can even call them elections, is justification for Hugo is like thinking Chicago or SE Houston elections are representative or fair. Hugo and Castro, for that matter, have done some good for their people, but not to recognize what anti freedom despots they are, and how much they hate America, is why we're doomed, IMHO. I'd much rather discuss Camguard, LOP, or even sex here...in the meantime.

[M016576]

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

[John Pleisse]

You've gotta be kidding. Really??? This guy was a tyrant and a murderer, committing human rights atrocities for over a decade....just for starters. While having our companies shown the door is certainly one thing and perhaps arguable, the fact remains that he maliciously attempted price fixing and gouging, he influenced OPEC and reserve supply and he engaged in political relationships with our foe. He was a Banana Republic fucking nuisance. And goodwill toward his own people is largely folk lore. Only the desolate among his masses were uneducated enough to buy it.