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Has anyone had a complete engine failure ?


spokewrench

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Just now, MB65E said:

Just one so far. On a 39 J3 carb heat and fuel shutoff are on the same side painted black. My front seater pulled the fuel valve instead of carb heat on base. We were strung out behind a c152. I Landed 300ft short of the runway. Dodged some wires on the way down. My fault! No fault of the airplanes. 

-Matt

I had the opposite in the Globe Swift. Had been flying the Aeronca mostly and the carb heat and cabin heat were reversed. Started feeling pretty hot on downwind. :)

-Robert 

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3 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

Turbocharger hose blew off the inlet side in my T210 at 15,000.  The engine seemed dead but regained some useful power down low.  Exciting but no real challenge to land normally at an airport.  


this is an interesting turbo operator challenge...

That I posed a question to Paul in another thread... earlier today...

With an essentially dead turbo, the compression ratio of the engine can make it a challenge to restart...

There will be a DA that may need to be crossed before the restart and power production may begin again...

throttle settings and mixture settings will be different than anything before...(?)

This could be problematic when over tall rocks, where the restart altitude is lower than the rocks...

PP questions only... not a turbo operator...

Seeing if @aviatoreb has experience to share?

Best regards,

-a-

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I have had 5 complete failures. Three of them were intentional. When Lycoming came out with the O-320H,  it was chewing up valve trains and no one understood what was going on, we had two 172's that blew up at 61 and 62 hours. Lycoming and Cessna was at a loss, so I made sure we got a warranty claim.  I took the other three airplanes at 59 hours and flew them overhead the airport until they broke. Then dead sticked them down. 

I lost an O-360 on an RG Cardinal after the diaphragm on the Bendix RSA system quit. I put it down on top of a levee near Sacramento.

I blew a P&W 2037 on a 757 out of SFO 1R right at rotation.  Returned for landing on 28L uneventfully. Engine shelled itself out pretty good. Took them hours to clean up all the debris on the runway.

 

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Ive been flying my whole life.  Professionally since 2001.  I dont have high time at around 4500 hours, mainly because 90% of it is in jets in the corporate world (and 5 years of my career were spent teaching in simulators for a 142 school)

 

That being said, I have experienced several engine failures.  The first was in a 152 when doing my private.  Shortly after take off it blew a jug right off the engine.  Barley made it back to the runway on that one.

THe second was on a Citation 1sp.  ITT went through the roof and needed to be secured.  RTB none event

The third was in a Meridian with an engine pretty freshly out of an overhaul/iran after a gear up landing.  15 ish hours on it and at about 400 feet it stopped producing power.  Prop went flat and it resulted in an off field landing and a totaled aircraft.  That one shook me up pretty bad.  They were not able to determine why it rolled back.

Needless to say, I do not trust engines, even the sucky blowy ones.

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4 hours ago, carusoam said:


this is an interesting turbo operator challenge...

That I posed a question to Paul in another thread... earlier today...

With an essentially dead turbo, the compression ratio of the engine can make it a challenge to restart...

There will be a DA that may need to be crossed before the restart and power production may begin again...

throttle settings and mixture settings will be different than anything before...(?)

This could be problematic when over tall rocks, where the restart altitude is lower than the rocks...

PP questions only... not a turbo operator...

Seeing if @aviatoreb has experience to share?

Best regards,

-a-

I just did on another thread.

 

not to mention the report I made two years ago,

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One of the most awesome posts ever launched on MS...   ^^^^

Written from a Sushi place...? (If I got that right... it IS memorable...)

A proper aviation gentlemen’s first post after an engine out landing... :)

Because MSers want to know your status...

Best regards,

-a-

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Meh... just trade your plane for a car... or one of those planes with 14 parachutes and a rocket launcher.

as for the mooneys, we have the feet dragging authorities to thank for allowing our dual mags on the market in the first place... and now, not allowing a alternative new type. Heck, we can’t even get a decent autopilot!

it also doesn’t hurt to get under the cowl, make yourself familiar with what you’re flying. I’m lucky in that no one else flies the ship I use, so no one is abusing or treating it like a rented mule.

flying a single motor airplane at night brings some extra risks...someone once said, turn on the landing light, if you don’t like what you see... turn it back off.

 

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On 3/9/2020 at 5:54 PM, Jerry 5TJ said:

“Right after liftoff the engine ran really loud and rough, lots of shaking, for about 2 minutes.  Then it quit completely for a few seconds, and then started up again.  It ran rough still, not as bad as before, for about another six minutes. Then it abruptly quit for good.”

”How fast were you going then?”

”Oh, about 17,000 mph.”

I wouldn't call that a failure.  That sounds like a blindingly brilliant success!

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I had a complete failure at 200ft on takeoff departing a reputable and well-known MSC. I landed in the field at the end of the runway. I declined an intersection departure on a 10,000ft runway. The cause was FOD through the #4 cylinder that destroyed the plugs. My theory is that something was left in the intake and when I pitched up, it rolled to the back of the intake and got sucked in, bounced around and destroyed those plugs. Nobody got hurt and the airframe was not damaged. 
 

I stop short of naming the shop, because I am not 100% certain that it wasn’t coincidence. But I mention it was a reputable MSC because I see a lot of people here who feel they have the Lord’s protection based on who signs their logbooks and mitigating risk under all circumstances should not be neglected. We have a member here who got fueled with Jet-A and he didn’t even place a fuel order. Someone swapped tail numbers with a King Air or something.  

Edited by FloridaMan
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I had one at 19k that I have written about here.  Lost oil due to a piece of plastic in the quick drain.  Never completely lost the engine but that was because I throttled it back right away and left it at idle.  i thought I might need it at the end, but didn’t.  Dove through about 7,500 feet of IMC on instruments.  Saw the runway because of the crash trucks with their lights on.  Got the engine fixed and it has run like a dream for the last thousand hours, don’t want to change it out but sooner or later I am going to have to. Landing went just fine.

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4 hours ago, neilpilot said:

If your fuel flow suddenly stops due to blockage in the fuel servo, but the engine is otherwise is good shape, does that count as an engine failure?

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20120721X23053


As the pilot... yes.

As the owner... probably, but not as much as something needing a complete OH...

That pilot did a great job!

Seemed to know his engine status and do problem solving while flying...

Great decision making too... beanfield vs. stall.

Best regards,

-a-

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23 hours ago, carusoam said:

One of the most awesome posts ever launched on MS...   ^^^^

Written from a Sushi place...? (If I got that right... it IS memorable...)

A proper aviation gentlemen’s first post after an engine out landing... :)

Because MSers want to know your status...

Best regards,

-a-

Yes and I posted the picture of sushi and saki as I decompressed near the hotel near the airport in PA I had not planned to visit.  But visit I did.  Safe and sound but very rattled with a bottle of saki to tell my Mooney space friends all about it.  Thanks for remembering.

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30 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Yes and I posted the picture of sushi and saki as I decompressed near the hotel near the airport in PA I had not planned to visit.  But visit I did.  Safe and sound but very rattled with a bottle of saki to tell my Mooney space friends all about it.  Thanks for remembering.

So ... are we going to have to do a thread on what Saki is Acceptable for Established Gentleman Aviators? Or are we going to stop after Scotch and Tequila?

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8 hours ago, jlunseth said:

So ... are we going to have to do a thread on what Saki is Acceptable for Established Gentleman Aviators? Or are we going to stop after Scotch and Tequila?

True - 

I think its the internet.   We do it.  Yes, we do start the  what Saki is Acceptable for Established Gentleman Aviators thread.

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On 2/3/2013 at 5:45 PM, jetdriven said:

That said, always be prepared for sudden engine failure. You might not always find a runway, but you can usually survive the forced landing. You only need 40 feet to decelerate from 60 knots to a full stop to survive. You can buy another airplane.

Years ago, I attended a seminar by an NTSB investigator who shared some really interesting facts about survivability of forced landings and crashes where the pilot never stopped flying the airplane.  It was eye-opening, and it completely changed how I thought about losing an engine.  The sole purpose of the plane is as a structure to absorb energy until stopped.  Before taking off, decide that when the engine quits, the hull belongs to the insurance agency.  Don’t try to “save” it.

He shared multiple examples of pilots who shed energy landing on baseball fields or even a tennis court, anything clear with stuff that the wings could catch on and decelerate at a G rate that was survivable.  He compared this to fatalities resulting where pilots passed over similar spots trying to stretch their glide to a road and stall/spun, or found too late the road to be obstructed by wires.

It was contrary to what I had learned as a new private pilot and quite eye-opening.  To this day I’m surprised more isn’t discussed about this.

 

On 2/3/2013 at 5:45 PM, jetdriven said:

In 9000 hours, no.  I have had one airplane  (a 172N) with an intermittent exhaust valve sticking incident, but other than that, nothing.  I will qualify that only 3000 hours of that is pistons, but still.  I think most engine failures are fuel exhaustion and fuel starvation.  Further, a good percentage of the other failures are a result of shoddy maintenance or ignoring something.

 

That said, always be prepared for sudden engine failure. You might not always find a runway, but you can usually survive the forced landing. You only need 40 feet to decelerate from 60 knots to a full stop to survive. You can buy another airplane.

 

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On 2/6/2013 at 9:36 AM, jetdriven said:

Does anyone else notice that in a large part of engine failures, they just came out of maintenance?

I work in the maintenance department for a Utility contractor and I always tell the production crews. "The most dangerous time to operate a piece of equipment is just after it's out of maintenance!" Of course I am only parroting what I have heard.....Mike Busch. Seriously I strongly recommend reading what Mike Busch has to say about maintenance induced failure. 

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Left SCK for MEV.  Through 7.5 felt little vibration.  Leveled 9.5.  Prop goes full.  Pulled back prop.  Oil pressure dropping.  On with NorCal.  Declared emergency.  They called Calavaras 9 o’clock- 8 miles.

Dead sticked in.  No issues.  An area of about 4 square inches  of the cerminil coating delamed and went through the engine.

Interesting  insurance discussion.  Nothing broken?  Nice job.  It’s a maintenance issue only.  Needless to say, Marquis overhaul used factory steel cylinders.

 

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After 30 years plus of flying I had my first of three failures (2) in my Rocket and 1 in my Aerostar 700. After 200 hrs. of ownership and at least one annual plus monthly oil changes due to my 30 - 40 hrs. per month flying time. At 17.500 at night from Eugene, OR to Ogden, UT I noticed my TIT rising very slowly. Over the next 30 minutes or so I had to keep increasing fuel flow to keep the TIT out of the red on my EDM 930. Once the mixture was close to full rich I declared an emergency into Idaho Falls the nearest to me at 90nm straight ahead. By the time I got close to the downwind position I was holding the prime button in continuously, once I was on final I released the prime button and dead-sticked it in. The airport manager helped me pull the aircraft off the runway to a tiedown position. The next morning we found the EDM fuel pressure sensor fitting had fractured and was spraying raw fuel on the left side engine cylinders! The cowling had been rubbing very slightly and went unnoticed by everyone including me.

The next failure occurred at 17,500 eastbound from Farmington, NM to my home base in Granbury, TX, the sun was setting on a beautiful fall evening over Las Vegas, NM the MAP went to 15 inches, I knocked off the altitude hold and initiated a slow descent to Clovis, NM, where I knew a mechanic. Then I looked at the engine oil pressure and saw that it had dropped 20 PSI, I hit my 530 emergency airport list that I had set parameters for 4,000 ft. hard surface runway minimums and it picked Santa Rosa, NM 90 degrees to my right, at 1000'/min would put me straight in with winds down the runway. 12 minutes later we were on the ground safe and sound. The turbo bearing had failed and checking the oil there was no measurable amount left. The next morning we topped the engine up to my normal level of 11 quarts, and found it needed 8 to bring it back to normal. If I had not turned immediately to land and if I had not installed an air/oil separator a few months prior the engine would have been toast,  I did hold a thousand feet in reserve all the way to short final in case it ran dry.

The Aerostar was less exciting, departing Loveland, CO heading for Granbury through 15,000 the left engine boost was starting to fall and it was obvious it wasn't going to keep producing much power, so I diverted to Montrose, CO. Fortunately there was shop there that the owner was familiar with the Superstar II engine (TIO540J2BD) that is from the Chieftain Navajo. It was a  fuel servo failure. So glad it didn't happen the day before as we were in icing conditions and turbulence from Vernal, UT. 

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A friend of mine had an off airport (road) landing after his carburetor iced up.  This inspired me to sign up for engine failure training.  I hired a cfii from stow mass and he used a cloud deck for "ground level" and we practiced take off engine failure and the fateful 180 degree turn (lowest altitude I could do it was at least 750 feet above "deck".  Then we practiced "landing in a forest" where I had to stall at the "tops" of the trees (clouds) and have the simulated contact with as little forward speed as possible.  Really valuable training which taught me a great deal.  It was such memorable day that twenty years and three thousand hours later I still remember his name: Tim Connelly.  I've had three engine failures, one as a flooded carb float which flooded the engine on final.  I didn't make the runway but the plane was undamaged.  The second one in a different plane I was three thousand feet above Oakland CA and the engine swallowed a valve, and I glided to a runway landing at the oakland airport with no damage except the engine did require replacement.  The third was a case of faulty maintenance when a mechanic installed the wrong airbox gasket and the subsequent full throttle takeoff sucked the gasket into the carb and killed the engine at about two hundred feet agl.  The departure was phoenix sky harbor with an eleven thousand foot runway so the no engine landing was a non event.  So I have a couple of things I have learned:  1) three of three failures were directly related to maintenance and or the poor quality of that maintenance.  I no longer look for the cheapest way to fix a plane.  I look for the most cost effective and highest quality method of maintaining the plane.  As such I have personally learned a LOT more about maintenance practices so I can be an educated pro-active plane owner, (and no, I don't rent anymore!).  2) It cost me half a day of flying with Tim Connelly to learn how to "crash", while I certainly am not an expert by any stretch I understand how important it is to keep practicing and staying vigilant.  I hire an instructor every six months to spend a half day tuning up skills and while not all CFI's are as good as Tim, I do see great personal improvement in my simulated emergency response after these sessions.  3) there are great lessons to be learned from landing a no flaps taildragger, taking unpowered aircraft lessons (glider, hangglider, paragliding) lessons.  4) one of the great joys of flying is the personal growth that comes from a career of learning.  Take a guy like Don Kaye who has a day job but teaches flying and has 11,000 hours!  here is a guy who really loves the process of the art of flying.  

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My wife and I were headed back from anniversary weekend in Fredricksburg TX June 2016. 20 minutes or so into the trip home to Houston around 9000 ft, a very slight buzz emerged and continued. It could be felt and heard but ever so slight, the sudden onset is why it caught my attention. 5 minutes later it increased instantly, now my wife noticed it. I pushed in the prop a little,  mixture in slightly, left mag, right mag, everything behaved as expected, this continued for another few minutes.Then the engine felt as if it was coming off the nose it shook violently, i pulled the power out and it continued to shake but not near like the speed bumps we just hit at highway speeds. I got an immediate heading from center and pointed the nose to Giddings TX on glide speed. Several minutes later, on a long base leg, the airport was in sight,  i pushed the throttle in to see what it had left if any, as soon as the RPM started to increase the vibration took over. At least i knew i had a small shot of power if needed, but it wasn't much. Non event landing other than the engine loping badly, it barely made enough power to taxi to the ramp (i figured we were on the ground, and it was already broke)  

The local mechanic helped me open the cowl to investigate,  #3 cylinder was being held on by the baffle and intake/exhaust. all the studs were broken, and some of the nuts were laying in the bottom of the cowl. I was amazed that cause the engine to shake so bad. 

The mechanic / shop owner / and airport manager set me up in, and let me use a brand new unrented hangar June through October during the overhaul. He refused anything for it, and said he was glad he could help out.  There are good people out there

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