TTaylor Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I was reading a thread on the list over the holidays on my phone about what is needed to do the three window to two window mod. I can't find the thread now. Can someone please point me to the thread or tell me where to find the parts needed to modify the side windows on the F to a single back window? Thanks, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 The center strip is cut out, 2 doublers are riveted along the top of the window and J windows installed. I have a letter from Mooney Engineering stating that it is not structural and does not change W&B. It really helps the looks. I can look up the pn of the 2 doublers if you need them. They are J parts also. The last few F models came from the factory this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 The center strip is cut out, 2 doublers are riveted along the top of the window and J windows installed. I have a letter from Mooney Engineering stating that it is not structural and does not change W&B. It really helps the looks. I can look up the pn of the 2 doublers if you need them. They are J parts also. The last few F models came from the factory this way. Please do. My windows need to be changed out and like Tim's Mooney, I would be interested in the single glass look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F-1968 Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 N601RX: Could you e-mail me a copy of the Mooney Engineering letter on this topic? You can e-mail me at johnabreda@yahoo.com Thanks. John Breda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkingnorth Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I considered changing my side windows out as right now Is the best time for it. I do not want to have issues with the FAA on this so I spoke with numerous other mechanics and without an STC, nobody wants to touch the log books. I only want to do it if the paper work is right. I want it to be FAA inspector clean. If there is such a thing. n601RX could i also have a copy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 What is your time frame? When I get a chance I'll look through my log books and paperwork and see what was done to mine to install the one piece window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 The last several F models that came from the factory had the 1pc rear windows already installed, so in essence you are using Mooney parts from a later F(or J/K) to upgrade a older F model. Some IA's I talked to told me the would require a 337 which they though would be easy to get, others thought that it was a logbook entry after I showed them the e-mail from Mooney. The later mooney manuals also state that all the structural loads in the cabin area are carried by the steel tubing and the skins are to "keep the wind out" Here are the pn's for the stiffeners that have to be riveted above the windows. Left Side 340285-007 Right Side 340285-008. You will also have to cut the center strip out of the interior panels and join them back together. For those who wanted a copy of the e-mail from Mooney pm me with your e-mail address. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I believe the MSC in NJ did one for one of our members a few years ago at a time for major overhaul such as paint, windows and interiors. Let me know if you need help making contact with the MSC? Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Consider the rounded corners at the same time... -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1964-M20E Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Consider the rounded corners at the same time...-a- Yes this does a lot for looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted January 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Consider the rounded corners at the same time... -a- After looking at pictures of planes that have been modified, are these just inserts of aluminum under the skin and outside the window? Does someone make them or is it an on-site fabrication? Mike, thanks for the information. I just ordered the parts from Mooney, now about $118 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Consider the rounded corners at the same time... -a- They you have to get the rounded plastic, dont you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sreid Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 They you have to get the rounded plastic, dont you? The rounded corners are part of the skin of the aircraft. To do it right, like the factory did, I think you would have to replace entire skins, including the door. Anything else wouldn't look like the modern airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 A perfect copy of a modern plane....hmmmm? Sorry, I may have overstepped. I used the word 'consider' because it would take great sums of money to achieve a perfect copy. There are other alternatives, owners used, to add the rounded 'look' to the older square windows... I considered making the changes years ago on my C. It wasn't sensible at the time. But the solution I went with isn't really any more sensible either... If you are upgrading your plane from inside to out, over time, this is something to consider early on. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 There are examples that appear to be either skins added or just painting the glass. Anyone have experience with this? Yes, I know it is not the perfect solution, but we are flying "vintage" airplanes. I see it as a two step process, change the outside and then make the inside match later. I fly a 75', the interior is bad plastic from the era. Look close at the edges of the windows and you can see the additions. http://www.airmodsflightcenter.com/sites/airmodsflightcenter.com/files/forsale/N9BW/N9BW_0969-a.jpg jelswick's album: http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/31554-n1145t-at-kdlz/ http://mooneyspace.com/gallery/image/29067-oskosh-2010-1981-m20j-n1145t-w-new-paint/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I took a flight in a rocket not long ago. It had rounded corners in the windows. It was some kind of tape like a vinyl decal that was painted the same color as the plane. I thought it looked pretty good. You had to get with in 5 feet and look real close to notice it wasn't original aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Essentially Mooney owners will know the windows are fake, but they will appreciate the plane for being a Mooney. Non Mooney owners will see a more modern looking plane, especially with an updated paint and interior... What counts is what your personal finance manager sees... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Aviation Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I priced out replacing the window skins in my 77 J during my 3 year resto. I gathered up all the p/n from the parts manual and sent a couple of quote requests out for the skins. I believe I was $1200. Almost $600 alone to replace the door skin. Next time look closely around your windows and doors and add up all the rivets you would have to drill out and re-do. IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO PRACTICLE. Promise!!! Vinyl corner inserts are about as good as it gets. My opinion if you want the oem rounded corners by a newer mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnz Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 Wonder if anyone would kind to forward me a copy of the letter from Mooney as my m20f is in Annual and the windows are in need of replacement and we would like to go with the single glass...the shop is willing to do the upgrade with the letter.... thanks.. david@nazem.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnz Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Man....i sure need some help here...... any chance of anyone sending me a copy of this Letter? old windows are out and my A/P is willing to do the Mod. if i can get him a copy of the letter.... thanks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Man....i sure need some help here...... any chance of anyone sending me a copy of this Letter? old windows are out and my A/P is willing to do the Mod. if i can get him a copy of the letter.... thanks..... Have you tried contacting Mooney directly? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnz Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Have you tried contacting Mooney directly? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk yep...and got this...another word no help..... No luck with the other 2 either.... We don't offer a retrofit kit that converts the M20F to M20J rear window and will be unable to send any data. There are a couple of companies that own an STC to do the conversion. You might want to contact Dan at Lake Aero Styling (707-263-0412) or Russell at Southwest Texas Aviation(512-353-3455). Stacey Ellis Technical Suppo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm not surprised by Russel not responding. I believe they got out of the mod business. Dan on the other hand is pretty much the go to guy for this kind of information. Have you tried calling Lasar and asking to speak with Paul if Dan is not returning your call? The other option is to PM TTaylor above. He did the mod and hopefully can let you know how he did it. It may be considered a minor mod and that is all your mechanic needs to hear. It is not structural... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTaylor Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Sorry, I was able to work with my mechanic without any letter because I had the official Mooney parts and he accepted that the 1976 was only a minor change from my 1975. He did a log book entry with the Mooney part numbers. N601RX might still have the letter, I would like a copy just to help others if we can get a copy. I can help with reccomndations if you get your mechanic to agree. I learned a great deal in the process that would help others do it better and easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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