mooney down over yosemite ?

[OR75]

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/12/19/small-plane-disappears-over-yosemite-national-park/

i hope the pilot walked away.

[thinwing]

oh oh...I have flown that route so many times into Mammoth airport.Since he was coming from the south and presumably entered tioga pass on the north side I am assuming he had a cloud base he was trying to fly under to get to Mammoth.I cannot think of worse terrain to have a forced landing.God Rest his Soul

[OR75]

it is often a good shortcup to cross the sierras but not a good place to loose an engine for the 10 to 15 mns the crossing lasts.

can be a strong winds area too.

always dreaded it .

[wishboneash]

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2012/12/mooney-m20f-executive-n9524m-missing.html

[kortopates]

Mammoth is one of our most favorite destinations; even keep a car there. However this wasn't a nice day to make the journey with high winds and precipitation earlier in the day. It really a mystery why the Mooney continued past Mammoth Pass for Yosemite Valley when Mammoth pass directly to the south offered a direct shot into the Mammoth airport with the best chances for staying under the 13K to 14K ceilings reported that day. However high winds and turbulence were likely a major issue for the flight. Which begs the questions why the pilot didn't choose instead to fly over to Mohave and then up the Owens Valley to avoid the higher terrain given the high winds and ceilings. I hope they find him soon.

[Ron McBride]

At 3:30 today at 3500' 50 miles to the west of Tioga it was 0c. It is cold out there. From Santa Ynez to Mammoth, he probably is further south if he could go VFR. North over Tioga is an airway, but you must be higher. Tioga is almost 10,000 ft. Hopefully he will make it. This is not to far from where Steve Fossit went down.

Ron

[thinwing]

exactly right..something made the pilot for go the closer Mammoth pass (maybe he tried it and hit turbulence)and continue north to tioga pass.The owens valley route ,though adding 50 or 60 nm to his routing would have been the safer bet though just as likely to have extreme turbulence and roter spilling over from the remnants of a pacific storm that day.Also I remember checking radar on tuesday for a friend taking a cessna 421 into mammoth that day about 1100 am.Most of the weather had blown over but there was still a large band of reflectivity shaded pink(nexrad code for snow or sleet)about 40 miles long right over Mammoth and Bishop.Another 3 day storm headed their way through sunday.Heavy snowfall expected so if they did not find them today it probably wont be till spring.RIP

[thinwing]

Oh..and my friend who is a corp pilot decided not to fly his turbocharged,pressurized cabin class twin that day ..he went the following morning

[M016576]

Oh..and my friend who is a corp pilot decided not to fly his turbocharged,pressurized cabin class twin that day ..he went the following morning

I think your friend is very smart!

[fantom]

Discretion is always the better part of valor.....

[jackn]

Just flew into Aspen.I arrived in Denver on Dec 13, but because of the weather and the fact that I haven't flown up here in two years, I drove up to Aspen. I drove back down to KAPA on the 20th(5 hrs due to ice and fog) to bring N813JJ to KASE. My flight track; http://flightaware.c.../flight/N813JJ. Even though it was a 'Blue Bird' day you can see my ground speed down to 100kts as the results of headwinds and downdrafts.

[Riq]

I had read about this on Kathryns report when it showed up. Not looking good, my prayers with the family.

Mtn flying requires specific knowledge and training.(and a turbo helps tons) There are go/.no go days and a thorough education of how to decide the difference is key. *That does not insure safe passage; weather changes quickly, and the knowledge on how to deal with mtn scenarios becomes key.

I fly around Colorado/Wy/Mt a lot, and its fairly easy with todays technology;ie weather reporting stations, on board equipment....

Ive talked to more than one pilot at an FBO in texas, ok, kansas,that says they steer clear of the mtns, no matter what. To me thats like the guys who dont fly at night. I guess a mans gotta know his limits.

[M016576]

Riq-

I wouldnt fault a GA pilot for not flying at night or imc or in the mountains. It's all a matter of risk tolerance, risk management and mission necessity. If you don't need to fly in the mountains, or need to fly at night, then why take on that added risk? If your mission does lend towards mountain flying and/or night flying, then you really do need to take the time, money and training to keep proficient. If you don't, it's not like your aircraft will suddenly explode... It's just that you're incurring extra risk that could be a causal factor in a potential mishap.

My guess on many crashes/mishaps in mountain flights and at night and during VFR->IMC issues is that the time the pilot got stung was NOT the first time they engaged in a flight with a similar risk profile. And ultimately they weren't prepared for it.

As for hardware... It's not the flying box, but the man in it that determines success or failure!

All JMHO

[Riq]

16574,

Completely agree, was just wording it Eastwood fashion.(Dirty harry,"a mans gotta know his limits")

I was absolutely inferring utilizing proper ADM when I made that statement.

Im guessing that my ipad with access to radar, gps, center, and the mtn top awos stations make passage much easier than say, 50yrs ago.

The fact the pic is ultimately in charge is a given.

Also all JMHO, and a 600hr one at that! Go ahead, throw tomatoes!

Happy Holidays everyone, I really enjoy this forum, almost as much as my mooney.

[Skybrd]

I'm based out of Columbia and not far from Yosemite. I've seen helicopters flying and hope their looking for our Mooney friend. Maybe the airplane flew below radar levels and continued flying toward the Sonora pass. On my mountain flying experiences and knowledge, high winds and rotors can take an airplane out of control. The downwind side of a large peak can cause the rotors. I used to check a winds aloft site to see what the winds are doing, but a storm can change things in a hurry. Another concern that has taken planes on mountain crossings are altimeter readings showing higher readings due to flying into a lower pressure areas. China Lake navy base lost a plane years ago while crossing the Sierra's in a winter storm due to this. I sure hope the missing plane flew past the suspected crash site and let down with the pilot still alive.

[FloridaMan]

Unrelated, I know, but I generally avoid wet footprints and I carry a PLB with me. I won't fly over Okeechobee. Supposedly when planes go down in that lake, they find the plane, but not those who were on-board.

[fantom]

Riq-

I wouldnt fault a GA pilot for not flying at night or imc or in the mountains. It's all a matter of risk tolerance, risk management and mission necessity. If you don't need to fly in the mountains, or need to fly at night, then why take on that added risk?

All JMHO

Generally agree BUT using your logic do most, or any, of us REALLY need to fly GA aircraft??

What gives me pause is when an experienced and competent pilot says he doesn't fly at night, in rain, over mountains, hard IFR or over water due to the risk factor. All flying has risk that should be mitigated by recurrency training and sound judgement, but IMHO ruling out these types of flights seriously reduces the benefits of flight.

I do them all but then again I don't land or taxi on grass. Above my risk tolerance.

YMMV

[M016576]

Generally agree BUT using your logic do most, or any, of us REALLY need to fly GA aircraft??

What gives me pause is when an experienced and competent pilot says he doesn't fly at night, in rain, over mountains, hard IFR or over water due to the risk factor. All flying has risk that should be mitigated by recurrency training and sound judgement, but IMHO ruling out these types of flights seriously reduces the benefits of flight.

I do them all but then again I don't land or taxi on grass. Above my risk tolerance.

YMMV

Define experienced and competent... Each of us has a different standard for that, too! But I see where you're going with this. Like I said, it's all a risk management decision, just like anything in life- what level of risk will you assume for the possible reward.

For me- why take my family flying at night over the mountains in a single engine prop when I could take them during the day just as easily? My schedule doesn't require night flying, so I tend not to do it in my mooney (with passengers onboard). I will fly IFR in the summer assuming its for a penetration (typically steer away from long drawn out flights on vectors or nav routes in the goo). I get enough night flight and hard IFR time at work. I do shoot approaches and log night time (solo) to keep my proficiency up, but I find that the mooney is an easy and stable IFR platform, even with the autopilot off. I'm not worried about the procedures, My only issue with flying single engine at night and IFR is what happens when the motor stops spinning.... My risk management profile takes into account my best chances for an off airport, unpowered landing. Hence daylight hours over the mountains when my family is onboard. But I use the mooney strictly to travel, I fly the Jet for the "thrill."

[Skybrd]

It's Dec 30 and they haven't found the plane yet. I was told they called off the search due to weather. Two of my friends out of Columbia were involved in searching. The information I heard from others stated, from radar returns about the time they lost him. Was told that the plane showed low speeds about 65. I assumed that to mean 65 knots ground speed and the plane was doing erratic changes. Not sure what those changes mean, probably altitude changes, since lateral changes might not show up. The last radar position was near the north rim of Yosemite. -- I suspect if the ground speed was 65 knots then the plane was probably climbing and in extreme headwinds. If the plane was downwind and below a jagged ridge there would be a strong downdraft, turbulence and possible rotor. Since thy didn't find the plane near there it might have kept flying and the crash site is not where they lost him on radar. They would lose him on radar when the plane went below line of site with the radar beam (which would happen from a strong downdraft bring the plane below radar coverage). One of my friends said if he went east trying for the pass he could probably see it between the peaks. If he was still flying toward the pass and got into the eastern side of the pass, I would think he would hit extreme turbulence from the pressure change. Maybe he went down from that. -- I don't know for sure anything but this is what I came up with. I. Wanted to go up the other day and search but my new engine monitor died and I did't fly. --

[flyboy0681]

What gives me pause is when an experienced and competent pilot says he doesn't fly at night, in rain, over mountains, hard IFR or over water due to the risk factor.

 

 

I have no problem flying over water or medium range mountains. But I don't fly at night and haven't logged a single night hour since 1985.

 

I trace this to a night flight I took from Atlantic City back to my home base at Caldwell. I was listening to McGuire when a distress call came from a Cessna. I was listening to him all the way down, asking for a suitable place to land. Two days later I read about the incident in the paper and the two that perished. Obviously this incident never left me. 

[Lionudakis]

Any update on this?

[OR75]

unfortunately, there was a lot of snow on the sierras in the recent weeks. not expecting news before spring.

[thinwing]

back in the 50s i believe a training flight went down with 4 souls aboard during a snowstorm. just south of this latest incident.After weeks of a than massive search (this was a military flight)it was called off.Fast forward over 60 years and some hikers stumbled upon frozen remains of an airman in a receding glacier suposely miles down hill from crash site which hasnt been found..This area is very remote with highest peaks in continental us.The Fossett search occurred in sept with no snow on the ground..and it was two years later his wallet was found leading to crash site

[TTaylor]

I just flew over the Sierra's about 30 miles north on an East to West crossing. I prefer to cross at South Lake Tahoe, but was forced south with low ceilings near Reno. Very rugged terrain and lots of snow this year. I was using the wave to climb before crossing and soaring the 20f on ridges in the area over 13,000 feet. I fly with a SPOT most of the time now to make it easier to find me and if I survive an accident I can get help right away via satellite. Worth the $150 a year for flying in the west. You can see an example here:

http://xcfind.paraglide.us/map.html?id=22

Click "This week" and then the pilot name. It is for our local group of glider pilots to track each other but we use it for power and even back country skiing as well. One if our other pilots was bringing a plane from Ohio to Utah this week as well.

[Skybrd]

They found the missing Mooney last Saturday. I read that the airplane was mostly intact, and the pilot was among the wreckage. it was spotted by a park visitor and the next day park employees went to the site. I'm not exactly sure but it appears to me that he went down east of the village and south of Tioga pass. I'm glad someone found the wreckage at least for the family's sake.

I'm based out of Columbia and not far from Yosemite. I've seen helicopters flying and hope their looking for our Mooney friend. Maybe the airplane flew below radar levels and continued flying toward the Sonora pass. On my mountain flying experiences and knowledge, high winds and rotors can take an airplane out of control. The downwind side of a large peak can cause the rotors. I used to check a winds aloft site to see what the winds are doing, but a storm can change things in a hurry. Another concern that has taken planes on mountain crossings are altimeter readings showing higher readings due to flying into a lower pressure areas. China Lake navy base lost a plane years ago while crossing the Sierra's in a winter storm due to this. I sure hope the missing plane flew past the suspected crash site and let down with the pilot still alive.