yvesg Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Hi All, I need to send the manual to a local CFI. It would be a pain in the butt to scan the one I have which will fall apart. (And my scanner needs sheets to be inserted) Would any one have the POH in electronic form? I believe any 1965-1968 would do since there are relatively few changes. Thanks in advance. Yves C-FQKM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 PM Me your email adress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sent. Let me know if you need anything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sent. Let me know if you need anything else. You really have to appreciate the comradery on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesg Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Right. Thanks to Robert. This is the #1 forum for me. period! Yves C-FQKM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z W Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I have one from a 68 C Ranger I can send if you need that also, just PM your email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvesg Posted November 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 Thank you Zane. I got the 1965 from Robert. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7467 Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 I also have the service manual. It goes great in forelight docs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 We should host these on a file server. My flying club has tons of space and could host them very easily, if not mooneyspace.com itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danb35 Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 I imagine that copyright issues would be a concern with hosting them here or elsewhere. The manuals are still copyrighted by Mooney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Honestly, who cares. Do you think Mooney is going to SUE over something like that? They are 60 year old airplanes we're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumstick Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) Apologies for the necropost - but I could use an electronic copy for a 1965 M20C Owners Manual.  Anyone have an eCopy? Edited June 5, 2018 by Drumstick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 5, 2018 Report Share Posted June 5, 2018 Check the Download section. There are a variety of Owners Manuals there . . . . And for @Danb, can a company that went bankrupt two or three decades ago still maintain a copyright? Note that they were long expired before the sudden extension from 17 years to the undefendable 75 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danb Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Hank not being a lawyer, I have no clue, that said I wouldn’t think being bankrupt would preclude a company from having a copyright. Being bankrupt doesn’t mean the company is out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 26 minutes ago, Danb said: Hank not being a lawyer, I have no clue, that said I wouldn’t think being bankrupt would preclude a company from having a copyright. Being bankrupt doesn’t mean the company is out of business. Mine says "Mooney Airplane Company Inc," which is bankrupt and gone decades ago. The name, logo and owners have changed multiple times, generally coincident with being bought after bankruptcy, which allowed the new owners to shed much of the debt. My plane was built, and my Owners Manual written, approved and issued, at least four changes in ownership ago. If the latest Mooney Co. / Corp. / Inc. / LLC is keeping up the copyrights on all publications issued by its numerous predecessors, they are several generations behind on updating them all to current standards. My Emergency section is two pages long, front and back of a single sheet, and spends a third of the space on alternator resets. There is one sentence about fires: "In case engine fire, turn cabin heater off." Yeah, thanks for that--I'll also shut off the fuel selector, pull mixture to Idle / Cutoff, close the knee vents and pitch downward to try and blow out the fire, all while yelling Mayday, Mayday, Mayday into the radio. May even toggle the ELT if I have enough brain power left to think that much. So I say the copyright went away about 17 years after either 1970 or the next version (I also have a 1975 version, which has some different techniques, different performance specs and differences in actual construction). So I'd say the copyright on mine expired somewhere between 1987 and 1992, unless the 1972-ish bankruptcy and sale(s) to Butler / Aerostar voided it out then. It's now 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Not the area of law I practiced, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I believe a copyright is an asset of the holder, and as such, would be treated like any other asset. It the bankruptcy was a chapter 11, the successor in interest (the ultimate purchaser of the company) would then own it. Under this theory, the various subsequent owners of the company would have kept the copyright as long as copyrights exist. Hopefully someone with better knowledge will chime in if there is some special bankruptcy rule for copyrights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Not a lawyer, but a copyright is an asset and would survive any bankruptcy/sale of assets.  A quick Google search shows copyrights from 1964 through the end of 1977 (which would seem to cover the manuals in question) can be renewed for 67 years!  Unless the copyright owner completely dropped the ball, it would seem to me there's a good chance the copyright could still be enforced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Copyrights were extended in the early 2000s. Not sure of the effect of that law on ones that lapsed due to non-renewal before then. Used to be 17 years, now it's 75. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy95W Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Does it matter that nobody is making money off of this, or doesn't that matter in a case like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMuncy Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Again, not my area of practice, but my understanding is that financial damage due to copyright infringement can be one of two measures. If one were selling the copyrighted material, they would be liable for their selling price. Unfortunately, if the infringer is preventing the copyright holder from selling the copyright material, that would also qualify. I would think that if one were very cautious, they would not offer, on an open forum, to give away copyrighted material, if the holder might miss out on a sale to the person they were giving it to. I have never heard about Mooney giving anyone grief about this issue, but still ……. I still welcome anyone better informed, to educate me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 Note for Drumstick... Once you get past the copyright issues... You want two copies of the nearly same document... The 1965 Owners Manual... In the event you get ramp checked.  Share this selfcongratulatory useless document with the people asking for documents.... The 1976 POH... in the event you want to calculate a T/O distance while fullly loaded, or the temperature is warmer than a standard day. the original document is great for ramp checks.  The latest POHs for the M20C have the most complete performance data available for your plane... If you can’t get past the copyright issue... do yourself a favor and call your MSC and order them through the factory.... in Y2K, I called the factory directly and accidently met the fine gent who had signed the AW line in my M20Cs first log book... These documents were immediately available at the time and priced like an ordinary short story... I learned these issues directly from the horse’s mouth... before we had MS. The OM is about thirty pages long... the first couple of pages are dedicated to how smart you are as a pilot to select such a fine aircraft! The POH is near 100 pages... is laid out in the standard way but is still missing some very useful detail... A modern Mooney POH is about 300 pages long.  All useful detail. Not including appendices specific to added hardware.... Get the right data for the safety of your flight...know before you go...  See if there is enough detail for DA decisions on warm days... Lately, I would expect electronic versions to be available from Mooney.  They (Mooney) are pretty modern this way. PP thoughts only... not a CFI... Best regards, -a-  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 It is a violation of the author's copyright to post their intellectual property on this website. Â There can be no doubt. Â Not a lawyer, just a published author. Â Walt Disney is dead in his grave, good luck pirating Mickey Mouse. Â In case anyone in interested, Disney actually had the copyright time of intellectual property extended significantly, I think to 75 years. All that said, if a lawyer from Mooney hasn't served the owner of this website with a cease and desist letter I wouldn't loose any sleep over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor_U Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 I could be wrong but I seem to remember some (or most) manuals were not copyrighted until 70-is or so. I don't see any proprietary note on my '67F OM. Esso Aircraft is a business selling old Manuals and electronic copies as well. It would be interesting to know how they can get around it, if they do.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steingar Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Igor_U said: I could be wrong but I seem to remember some (or most) manuals were not copyrighted until 70-is or so. I don't see any proprietary note on my '67F OM. Esso Aircraft is a business selling old Manuals and electronic copies as well. It would be interesting to know how they can get around it, if they do.  Your creative work is copyrighted the moment you sign your name to it.  Those works belong to Mooney or whoever holds Mooney's intellectual property rights.  think about it, Mickey Mouse was invented in the 30's and still holds his copyright to this day. Like I said, if a lawyer hasn't contacted anyone to tell them to pull the materials down I wouldn't worry about it.  Could be Mooney doesn't know.  Could be Mooney doesn't care.  Could be Mooney likes it because having those materials available increases safety. Hey, it could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kortopates Posted June 6, 2018 Report Share Posted June 6, 2018 We've seen Craig request users to withdraw copyrighted Mooney manuals posted to Mooneyspace before. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.