Trip to the Southwest next week; any feedback?

[dkkim73]

Hi all, 

My wife and I have the week 6/7-13 off and are planning a trip to the southwest and looping back through eastern CA/NV. Home base western Montana. 
Current concept: 

• Visit our son in Salt Lake for a day or so. I tested out KSLC last month and it wasn't bad, so thinking of stopping there. 
• Down to KGCN (Grand Canyon), spend some time on ground that afternoon and probably the next. Early AM self-guided air tour the following day along 1+ VFR corridors, maybe up to Lake Powell as noted in the below-referenced thread. 
• Head west, eventually to Mammoth Lakes KMMH (or Bishop?) and overnight, hang out for part of a day
  • on the way, maybe fuel; looks like will have to jog around given RAs and MOAs and the KLAS B
  • ideally overfly Death Valley, one of my old college haunts; probably won't land as not much in the way of services
• Up to Reno KRNO whence my wife will fly back out for work, I fly home to KHRF

Anyone have any feedback on those? It sounds like KGCN is pretty well-reviewed in terms of access and service. We'd probably get a car and drive and hike a bit. 

Idea is to keep some slack for both weather and following our noses, ie. not too tight an intinerary. OTOH I'm amazed how far you can go in a few hours.

Thanks!
David

PS. a lot here from a few years ago, also some Beechtalk threads generally talking about Prescott and Page as bases, also apparently KLAS isn't too bad for a small plane: 

 

[good2eat]

Monument Valley, overfly Bryce and Zion.

[dkkim73]

2 hours ago, good2eat said:

Monument Valley, overfly Bryce and Zion.

Any specifics on Monument Valley? I read on one of the websites to contact Navajo nation for an overflight permit for the park, but that link was dead and the Navajo tourism site didn't have anything specific. I suppose above a certain altitude it's basically a peaceable journey type situation, but I know there are also local courtesies. 

Really interesting the # of RAs and MOAs down there. I'll probably see more alien saucer traffic with all the news lately.  But hey I'm hoping with new strobes and my self-polished landing light lenses *I'll* be the UFO. 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I would land at Furnace Creek if you are in the area. You can walk to the resort. Get something to drink and a snack, just to say you did.

[N201MKTurbo]

13 minutes ago, dkkim73 said:

Any specifics on Monument Valley? I read on one of the websites to contact Navajo nation for an overflight permit for the park, but that link was dead and the Navajo tourism site didn't have anything specific. I suppose above a certain altitude it's basically a peaceable journey type situation, but I know there are also local courtesies. 

Really interesting the # of RAs and MOAs down there. I'll probably see more alien saucer traffic with all the news lately.  But hey I'm hoping with new strobes and my self-polished landing light lenses *I'll* be the UFO. 

 

Go fly V105 north from Vegas at about 10:00 PM and look to the east and try to figure out what you are looking at. Dial up Nellis Control and listen to what is going on. Listen to Groom Lake tower too. You won’t find the frequency on ForeFlight, but if you listen to Nellis Control you will hear them hand off the Janet planes.

[FoxMike]

The last time I stopped at Monument Valley ( several years ago) the runway was in horrible shape.

[kortopates]

Last time I was there, also several years ago, you had to register with the hotel to use the runway. I avoided starting up and taxing on the dirt/gravel parking area. It seems it’s always blowing there quite strongly, it matters very little because the runway is very steep.
Watching the tour planes takeoff showed there was a significant down draft near the bottom of the runway’s departure end with a stiff wind.
Well worth the trip especially if you visit during a full moon.

[Slick Nick]

We were in that neck of the woods last year. KGCN was closed unfortunately for runway rehab, so I couldn't land there, but we based ourselves in KSGU St. George for a couple days so it was a nice short flight. We got up very early and watched the sun come up over the grand canyon. Flew around there for a bit, then north through the corridor to Page, AZ. If you're flying the grand canyon, it's a special flight rules area, so make sure you familiarize yourself with the routes, procedures and frequencies beforehand. 

After a quick stop in Page, we took off for Lake Powell. Heard a twin otter on the radio doing aerial tours, he told us to form up on him and he showed us around the lake. The "rainbow bridge" formation is cool to see from the air. 

We went back to St. George after that, then the next day up to Provo but I would highly recommend flying the canyon. It was unbelievable. By 9am, it was quite terbulent in the summer, so make a plan to go early. We were back on the ground by 10am. 

[AndreiC]

Not sure landing at the two Death Valley airports is a great idea this time of the year. It will be insanely hot. I went there twice (Furnace Creek in January and March 2024). Already in March it was very hot during the daytime. I can’t imagine what it will be like in June.

But apart from the heat issue, it is very nice to fly around the mountains in Death Valley. You have to stay in touch with the controllers for the MOAs there, they fly a lot of missions in the area. 

[N201MKTurbo]

23 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

Not sure landing at the two Death Valley airports is a great idea this time of the year. It will be insanely hot. I went there twice (Furnace Creek in January and March 2024). Already in March it was very hot during the daytime. I can’t imagine what it will be like in June.

But apart from the heat issue, it is very nice to fly around the mountains in Death Valley. You have to stay in touch with the controllers for the MOAs there, they fly a lot of missions in the area. 

Insanely hot? We just call that outside.

[AndreiC]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Insanely hot? We just call that outside.

Well, I’m from wimpy Wisconsin. Normal temps for us are -20 F to 75 F. Anything above that is unbearably hot. 

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, AndreiC said:

Well, I’m from wimpy Wisconsin. Normal temps for us are -20 F to 75 F. Anything above that is unbearably hot. 

If it gets below 75, I’m putting on a jacket.

[Hank]

35 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

Well, I’m from wimpy Wisconsin. Normal temps for us are -20 F to 75 F. Anything above that is unbearably hot. 

Don't come to the South between St. Paddy's and Thanksgiving, then. We had almost 90° at the beginning of March this year, and March 70s & 80s at the beginning of May . . .

So I'll need long sleeves for Oshkosh, if I ever make it up there? Or just in the evenings?

[Skates97]

If you are looking at KMMH or KBIH pay very close attention to the wind speed and direction. If it is 20-25 kt or higher perpendicular to the Sierra Nevada range you don't want to visit those airports. The turbulence in the Owens Valley from the winds coming across those 11-14,000' peaks can be extreme.

[N201MKTurbo]

6 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

If you are looking at KMMH or KBIH pay very close attention to the wind speed and direction. If it is 20-25 kt or higher perpendicular to the Sierra Nevada range you don't want to visit those airports. The turbulence in the Owens Valley from the winds coming across those 11-14,000' peaks can be extreme.

Been there done that, don’t need to do it again.

[kortopates]

If you are looking at KMMH or KBIH pay very close attention to the wind speed and direction. If it is 20-25 kt or higher perpendicular to the Sierra Nevada range you don't want to visit those airports. The turbulence in the Owens Valley from the winds coming across those 11-14,000' peaks can be extreme.

As an avid skier, we kept an airport car at MMH which eventually moved to BIH due to cost, but with many many trips up the Owens valley i am convinced the strongest turbulence in the country can be found here in the winter time. Many experiences with severe turbulence.


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[Fritz1]

David, Brenda and I stayed in Flagstaff AZ, KFLG for two weeks late October last year, liked it, temps in the high 60s, no humidity, big runway friendly FBO, inexpensive rental cars and hotels, quirky little college town, Lowell observatory one of the venues, really nothing at Monument Valley Airport, Kayenta airport, drove everywhere with our rental car including Grand Canyon, Winslow crater, Sedona, Jerome, Lake Powell, really cool place will go back same time this year. Safe travels! -Fritz

[caractacuspdoom]

Overflying the Grand Canyon is a life-changing experience, or at least it was for me earlier this year. So make sure you are able to get that in your itinerary.

In general, try to fly as much as possible in the morning or late afternoon. Flying in the middle of the day in the desert southwest can be pretty punishing with the turbulence, and afternoon take-off performance sucks no matter what you are flying (probably).

Edited June 2 by caractacuspdoom

[PT20J]

There's nothing much at Bishop. I'd go to Mammoth Lakes and rent a car. Have dinner at the Convict Lake Resort. Stay in town and be sure to drive up to the lakes - gorgeous scenery. 

The tricky wind condition at KMMH is when the wind is out of the south; it accelerates downhill  over Convict Lake and hits the airport crosswind at midfield creating a nasty windshear. Other than that, it's not bad. If headed west (not on your route, but others may be interested) Mammoth Pass is the lowest and widest pass through the Sierra Nevada mountain range.  Just climb out away from the mountains until crossing altitude to avoid any turbulence from the mountains.

[Schllc]

Grand Canyon does not have cars that I am aware of. 
they didn’t have any last year when we went. The hotel is pretty close to the airport, and is ok if you have light luggage. I really wished I had electric scooters or room for bikes. 
there is no uber there, only a shuttle which is $20 flat fee anywhere but isn’t easy to catch.  And of course great hiking is everywhere. 
The hummer tour company was great and well worth it. The helicopter ride is grossly overrated for the price. 
Mamouth lakes is great, rental cars available and close to the east entrance of Yosemite.  Both  parks are pretty slow until late June.  No need for reservations for either that early in the summer. If you are not going to hike, two days in Grand Canyon is more than enough. 
You could spend a month in Yosemite and it wouldnt be enough. 

 

[dkkim73]

Thank you guys again. I hadn't been thinking of wind with respect to the Owens Valley, so that's very helpful. I think I read there were Turo cars available at GCN but your PIREP is recent so I will call. 

Good to hear about it being a bit earlier in the season. I was thinking last week "why didn't we do this in the winter?". 

Thinking to reposition from SLC to GCN whenever and then plan to do an early AM tour over the canyon, targeting being back and down by 9AM. 

Will check out Flagstaff options as well. I think we're considering trying to do shorter hops for more flying experiences and different locales vs. just tooling around a couple of key destinations. 

I kind of want to spend more time in the inland wilds of CA (where previously I was always on the ground) but maybe that should be another trip. I recall some cool things near Stovepipe Wells (the dunes) but without some infrastructure and cars available it might be underwhelming just standing at the airport. 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I started flying in 81. I would fly to KGCN for work in a PA-38. On day I departed KGCN and dropped down to about 2000 feet above the river and ran it to Lake Mead. That was awesome. Too bad you can’t do that anymore.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I started flying in 81. I would fly to KGCN for work in a PA-38. On day I departed KGCN and dropped down to about 2000 feet above the river and ran it to Lake Mead. That was awesome. Too bad you can’t do that anymore.

I started flying a few years earlier ('78) and one of my regrets is not doing that back when no one cared.  Good for you!

[Ragsf15e]

21 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I started flying a few years earlier ('78) and one of my regrets is not doing that back when no one cared.  Good for you!

IR126 is probably similar to that and a really fun one for military jets.  You can start around 4 Corners , NM and fly at 500’, 540kts through much of the Lake Powell canyons while pretending you’re Will Smith being chased by aliens.  It’s really fun.  Especially when there are houseboats on the lake!

[dkkim73]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Too bad you can’t do that anymore.

Lights out at night with the XPNDR breaker pulled and a cheap Chinese FLIR-type camera....? Sounds safe. 

@Ragsf15e did you ever do LOWAT on NVG's, being a -E type of individual?