Ragsf15e Posted May 19 Report Posted May 19 Hello, I was wondering if anyone has experience with hanger reversion and or difficulty renewing their land lease. I "own" a T hangar in a long row of T hangars that forms a condo association. It started with a 35 year lease and it's running out in 3 years. We've been working to renew the lease (at updated land lease rates), but have been getting some pushback and/or stonewalled. Additionally, several other hangars on the airport have not been allowed to renew and are thus now owned/managed by the airport. IMO, it doesn't make sense for the "government" (i.e. airport board) to take people's property and rent it out as a landlord. If they need more money and want to target the land lease rates to get that money, that seems a more reasonable way to go. Then the people and the market can decide if they want to keep/sell the hangars and what they're worth while the airport continues to receive its income. Unfortunately, I must be misunderstanding something about how this works. Has anyone had experience they'd like to share in working through this type of thing and getting a new lease? If you'd prefer to DM me details that would be great too. Thanks for your time, Drew
skykrawler Posted May 19 Report Posted May 19 Its seems typical. I have seen a case where a hangar was disassembled and removed rather than leave it for the airport after the land lease ran out. 1 1 1
Ragsf15e Posted May 19 Author Report Posted May 19 22 minutes ago, skykrawler said: Its seems typical. I have seen a case where a hangar was disassembled and removed rather than leave it for the airport after the land lease ran out. The weird thing is that a nearby (but more rural) airport automatically renews leases for 10 years each time they sell. No issues getting a new lease up there. Ours, not so much. I’m just not understanding what makes the difference?
toto Posted May 19 Report Posted May 19 Hopefully they aren’t cooking up an alternative plan. We had a major municipal airport close back in the day, leaving all of the hangar lessees high and dry and straining already-strained availability across the city. https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-8th-circuit/1306288.html “The FAA also considered that the action will require the closure of the fixed base operation and the hangar facilities at the airport. The FAA found that sufficient general aviation facilities are available in the area, although the hangar space is inadequate.” Whoops 1
Hank Posted May 19 Report Posted May 19 I've seen an airport-based business be told to return their plot to the city in the same condition it had been acquired--i.e., flat and empty. Farewell one aircraft interior business, farewell one large hangar, farewell several jobs. The lot is still empty, nothing but waving grass after almost six years . . . . 2
PeteMc Posted May 19 Report Posted May 19 There appears to be an Airport Board Meeting coming up. Thursday, May 21, 2026 at 9:00am Airport Event Center 9211 W. McFarlane Road Spokane, WA 99224
Z W Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 You have to read the lease. Sometimes the airport authority already owns the hangar structure, because it transferred to them upon completion. Sometimes the tenant owns the structure during the lease, but ownership automatically transfers to the authority when it ends. Sometimes the tenant retains ownership of the structure and has the option, or even the obligation, to take it down and haul it off when the lease ends. Depending on which type of lease you have, different authorities get different ideas. Some authorities view this as an opportunity to maximize revenue and want to own the structures and charge maximum rent. Some want to tear down all the old T-hangars and build big box hangars for Jet-A burners. Some are happy to keep the status quo. The good news is, with 3 years and a group of interested tenets, you might have enough time to put political pressure on the authority which is what really controls this process. 2 1
LANCECASPER Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 19 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: Hello, I was wondering if anyone has experience with hanger reversion and or difficulty renewing their land lease. I "own" a T hangar in a long row of T hangars that forms a condo association. It started with a 35 year lease and it's running out in 3 years. We've been working to renew the lease (at updated land lease rates), but have been getting some pushback and/or stonewalled. Additionally, several other hangars on the airport have not been allowed to renew and are thus now owned/managed by the airport. IMO, it doesn't make sense for the "government" (i.e. airport board) to take people's property and rent it out as a landlord. If they need more money and want to target the land lease rates to get that money, that seems a more reasonable way to go. Then the people and the market can decide if they want to keep/sell the hangars and what they're worth while the airport continues to receive its income. Unfortunately, I must be misunderstanding something about how this works. Has anyone had experience they'd like to share in working through this type of thing and getting a new lease? If you'd prefer to DM me details that would be great too. Thanks for your time, Drew Although AOPA has wandered from their mission, if you are a member I would send your concerns to them. In fact it might be better to get all AOPA members who are lease holders to join in that letter. AOPA needs a "win" right now and a little publicity from them might be what's needed to move things ahead to a new lease. 2 1
Rick Junkin Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 My lease is specific on improvement reversion to the airport authority at the end of the original lease term (30 years). All improvements are to remain intact, and the current lessee has first right of refusal to establish a new lease under new terms, with the airport as the owner of the land and the improvements. It is silent on any opportunity for any lessee to renew the land lease AND retain ownership of the improvements. I can sell the improvements during the term of the lease but the new owner will be bound by the original land lease terms to include the original 30 year termination date. I have to assume this kind of lease is geared to commercial assets that a business depreciates over the period of the lease and recoups some value. Not so much for a private owner. But it's the lease I signed with full understanding of how this would go. Is your question about how to fight the improvement reversion after the fact? At first blush that sounds like trying to renege on the terms of the lease and retain continued ownership of the improvements, but I could be misunderstanding your situation. Sometimes what's done in practice deviates from what is legally agreed to. Hangars here change hands occasionally, but I don't know the details of how the transferred leases are actually handled vs what is in my lease paperwork.
Ragsf15e Posted May 20 Author Report Posted May 20 10 minutes ago, Rick Junkin said: My lease is specific on improvement reversion to the airport authority at the end of the original lease term (30 years). All improvements are to remain intact, and the current lessee has first right of refusal to establish a new lease under new terms, with the airport as the owner of the land and the improvements. It is silent on any opportunity for any lessee to renew the land lease AND retain ownership of the improvements. I can sell the improvements during the term of the lease but the new owner will be bound by the original land lease terms to include the original 30 year termination date. I have to assume this kind of lease is geared to commercial assets that a business depreciates over the period of the lease and recoups some value. Not so much for a private owner. But it's the lease I signed with full understanding of how this would go. Is your question about how to fight the improvement reversion after the fact? At first blush that sounds like trying to renege on the terms of the lease and retain continued ownership of the improvements, but I could be misunderstanding your situation. Sometimes what's done in practice deviates from what is legally agreed to. Hangars here change hands occasionally, but I don't know the details of how the transferred leases are actually handled vs what is in my lease paperwork. I might not be understanding your terminology exactly, but many places will allow the owner to continue ownership at the end of the original lease by renewing the lease to another term. That comes with new terms, such as the land lease fee, timeline, etc each time, but the ownership of the improvements, meaning the Hangar, stays with whoever owns it. If the lease is not renewed, as specified in the current documents, the improvements, meaning the Hangar, revert to ownership of the Airport board. When that happens, the owner loses everything and the Airport now controls the improvement. Usually they rent them out. In general, I would say it is more usual for the leases to be renewed. The Airport makes money off the land lease fees, and the owners get to use, buy and sell the hangers (the improvements). That doesn’t always happen, but some airports that is the normal operation. One near us automatically renews the lease each time a Hangar is bought or sold.
midlifeflyer Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said: Although AOPA has wandered from their mission, if you are a member I would send your concerns to them. In fact it might be better to get all AOPA members who are lease holders to join in that letter. AOPA needs a "win" right now and a little publicity from them might be what's needed to move things ahead to a new lease. I'm not seeing AOPA fighting a battle to save aircraft owners from the contracts they signed unless there's a widespread disregard of the FAA grant assurances at airports which receive federal funding. Even there, once we get past discriminatory practices, most of those requirements (See Chapter 12 of Order 5190.6C) are geared to preventing a tenant from having too much control for too long. There may be something in the language of a particular ground lease which provides some negotiating ammunition, but it's not like ground leases are something new or limited to aviation. The area I think gives most aircraft owners headaches is reversion at the end of the lease period, but even that is fairly standard in ground leases. The generally used standard is whether it's long enough to amortize the investment the tenant made for improvements. Put into a true commercial context, it makes sense. If the tenant is a store, it can think in terms of business profit recouping investment costs. That doesn't have the same practical significance for a private hangar lessee and one can argue back and forth whether it "should" apply at all, but the leasing rules, generally speaking, are the same. As @Rick Junkin points out, the time to negotiate the terms of reversion is before the lease is signed.
DavePage Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 22 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: Has anyone had experience they'd like to share in working through this type of thing and getting a new lease? If you'd prefer to DM me details that would be great too. Drew,'I live on a airpark KUDD(has its own set of situations) also rent an hangar at KCMA. The folks there, KCMA, and at neighboring KOXR went through the idendical situation several years ago. I can point you to their website https://cohota.org/. They had an outstanding outcome. I encourage you to check it out. 1
Ragsf15e Posted May 20 Author Report Posted May 20 12 minutes ago, DavePage said: Drew,'I live on a airpark KUDD(has its own set of situations) also rent an hangar at KCMA. The folks there, KCMA, and at neighboring KOXR went through the idendical situation several years ago. I can point you to their website https://cohota.org/. They had an outstanding outcome. I encourage you to check it out. Awesome, thanks! And as an added bonus, my dad got his private pilot certificate at Camarillo in the late 70s! I remember holding on tight in the back of a C-172 while he did stalls with his CFI... I was like 6! I also remember the taco place that use to be on the field at Camarillo. Good memories. Drew 2
cliffy Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 When I and another friend wrote the city airport regulations for a well known western city we specifically wrote in that the leases were renewable and the hangars would not revert to city ownership. Lenders won't lend on short term leases. Hangar value drops the closer to turn over it becomes. Your purchase investment is gone. READ WHAT YOU SIGN BEFORE PURCHASE OF ANY HANGAR! If you think AOPA will come to the fore like a charging White Knight - Think again! After many decades of AOPA I now feel they need to go away and someone else needs to step in. UNLESS THE ENTIRE BOARD RESIGNS ! They need complete new leadership starting at the top. BYW the EAA is doing a good job. 1
DavePage Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: my dad got his private pilot certificate at Camarillo in the late 70s! Drew, did you live in Camarillo at the time, or nearby. I suspect by your call sign, those stalls, inspired / motivated you to a career in aviation. My son attended USAFA, and currently flies, grandson is days / hours away finishing up his Plebe year at West Point, and is almost solo. That taco joint, has "evolved" into an awesome restaurant - Waypoints, and it truly is awesome. Best dave Edited May 20 by DavePage spelling
AndreiC Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 I just bought the hangar that I was renting from its previous owner. At the airport I am based at (small semi-rural place, owned privately by a company which bases their Citation there, but with a strong relationship with the nearby town) they automatically gave me a new 5 year land-lease with clear terms and language that says that I will have the option for a 5 year renewal when the lease ends. I retain ownership of the hangar throughout. Presumably when the lease renews it comes with the same terms, so if things don’t change drastically (and both the airport owner and their lawyer gave me strong assurances that nothing is planned to change) this process could continue indefinitely. The only thing I anticipate changing is the land lease rate, which increases at 3% annually.
Schllc Posted May 20 Report Posted May 20 On 5/19/2026 at 3:17 PM, Ragsf15e said: The weird thing is that a nearby (but more rural) airport automatically renews leases for 10 years each time they sell. No issues getting a new lease up there. Ours, not so much. I’m just not understanding what makes the difference? The management is what makes the difference. the city or county or whatever your structure may have some plans for the airport that you are not aware of. if you are not already, I would start attending the meetings and ask them. the city here makes a big deal, at the land lease renewals, to remind everyone that they can seize the land and improvements at the end of the lease. Then every ten or so years a bunch of nitwits demand the airport be closed, and they spend millions on noise studies etc. but ultimately they renew the lease. the newest tactic is to refuse grants and demand the airport be relocated. Never going to happen, at least not my lifetime…. if you want to know, you need to get involved. 1
Utah20Gflyer Posted June 25 Report Posted June 25 My airport offers a 5 year land lease if you want to spend a wheel barrow full of money to build a hanger. Surprisingly no one has ever taken them up on their offer.
Mooneymite Posted June 26 Report Posted June 26 ...., or avoid the whole issue of who owns the land by owning a lot in a fly-in community? However, some of the "arrangements" can be pretty awful, too. Read the covenants carefully. Basic question: who owns the runway?
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