1980Mooney Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 (edited) N1151, 1981 M20J, REVISED Coroner says accident occurred at about 6 PM EDT which is 22:00 ZULU. ADSB shows that the landed at Union County Airport at 21:09 Coroner report says they fueled and took off. Four (4) fatalities. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/569308 https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a04149&lat=34.670&lon=-81.663&zoom=13.2&showTrace=2026-04-17&trackLabels&geomEGM×tamp=1776460374 Edited April 20 by 1980Mooney Accident was after refueling and taking off 1
mike_elliott Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 If anyone knows of the pilot and has contact information for his spouse, kindly, let me know
201er Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 There was no wind. METAR K35A 172215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 30/09 A3000 RMK A02 T03000090= How did he go from 170kts at 2075ft on downwind (1500AGL) to 86kts and 650ft scraping the trees on short final? Does a 1981 have speed brakes?
Hank Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 57 minutes ago, 201er said: There was no wind. METAR K35A 172215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 30/09 A3000 RMK A02 T03000090= How did he go from 170kts at 2075ft on downwind (1500AGL) to 86kts and 650ft scraping the trees on short final? Does a 1981 have speed brakes? All that comes to mind is workload with engine trouble, compounded by a plane full of people and an emergency landing at an unfamiliar field. Not having power in the pattern shortens the downwind leg, so if he was looking for the runway at 45° behind him with gear down and a full load, he wouldn't make it back. But that's our normal pattern . . . Practice engine out landings, and not just pulling power midfield downwind. Try reducing power a few miles out and see how the plane glides. Remember to pull the prop back, it will help unless you've blown off a cylinder and lost all of your oil, or had the engine seize. Prayers for all of their families! I've never landed in Union, but I've driven through and flown over more times than I can count. Fly safe out there, ya'll! 1
exM20K Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 37 minutes ago, Hank said: All that comes to mind is workload with engine trouble, compounded by a plane full of people and an emergency landing at an unfamiliar field. Not having power in the pattern shortens the downwind leg, so if he was looking for the runway at 45° behind him with gear down and a full load, he wouldn't make it back. But that's our normal pattern @Buster1 wrote the how-to manual for engine outs. https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Out-Survival-Tactics-Emergencies/dp/1483594556 I’ve had one of these IRL and done a bunch simulated, VFR and (simulated IFR). IRL: Newish engine pumped all of its measurable oil out at night but was still running, albeit with some roughness and at idle at overhead key. Guard your energy. SIM: with @mike_elliott and others: acclaim power setting / config for 90 KIAS & 900 FPM down is gear down speed brakes out t/o flaps 12.5” MAP Especially flying the straight-in SFO, SVT under the hood works. Put the flight path indicator at midfield and ride it down. it may be in this case that a rough running or otherwise badly behaving engine lead to a partial power precautionary landing, and the engine quit during that attempt. RIP. -dan 2
toto Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 6 minutes ago, exM20K said: @Buster1 wrote the how-to manual for engine outs. https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Out-Survival-Tactics-Emergencies/dp/1483594556 I bought this book right when he published it, and I think it’s excellent reading for anyone who hasn’t seriously thought about this stuff.
ArtVandelay Posted April 19 Report Posted April 19 There was no wind.METAR K35A 172215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 30/09 A3000 RMK A02 T03000090= How did he go from 170kts at 2075ft on downwind (1500AGL) to 86kts and 650ft scraping the trees on short final? Does a 1981 have speed brakes? Some have been retrofitted.
mike_elliott Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 8 hours ago, exM20K said: @Buster1 wrote the how-to manual for engine outs. https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Out-Survival-Tactics-Emergencies/dp/1483594556 I’ve had one of these IRL and done a bunch simulated, VFR and (simulated IFR). IRL: Newish engine pumped all of its measurable oil out at night but was still running, albeit with some roughness and at idle at overhead key. Guard your energy. SIM: with @mike_elliott and others: acclaim power setting / config for 90 KIAS & 900 FPM down is gear down speed brakes out t/o flaps 12.5” MAP Especially flying the straight-in SFO, SVT under the hood works. Put the flight path indicator at midfield and ride it down. it may be in this case that a rough running or otherwise badly behaving engine lead to a partial power precautionary landing, and the engine quit during that attempt. RIP. -dan Was serious, but fun training. Know the numbers for your plane and know things are worse with no power a pleasure to do this with you Dan 1
midlifeflyer Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 The ADS-B track is scary. If it’s accurate, it shows an airplane arriving at the diversion airport with extra altitude to spare. A lot. And that’s flying in Vno territory, not Vg. Yet, the pilot manages to lose all of it without making the runway they are flying over. It just doesn’t make sense.
PT20J Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 I can see how it could have happened. Perhaps he realized that he arrived over the airport with way too much altitude and airspeed. If he flew a larger pattern to try to get lower and slower, and if the engine wasn't putting out much power, and if his normal approaches were power on, then the increased engine-out sink rate might have caught him by surprise too late and too far from the runway to do anything about it. He almost made it. 1
201er Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 9 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: The ADS-B track is scary. If it’s accurate, it shows an airplane arriving at the diversion airport with extra altitude to spare. A lot. And that’s flying in Vno territory, not Vg. Yet, the pilot manages to lose all of it without making the runway they are flying over. It just doesn’t make sense. We do our simulated engine out practice scenarios at Vg. We’re not really familiar with the power off sink rate characteristics at high speeds. In hindsight, despite having plenty of energy, it would have still been better to slow to Vg and only deal with losing altitude. At high speed it ends up being two variables because you gotta lose the speed too. Harder to judge and predict, particularly because the drag curve changes as you slow down. Holding Vg, altitude loss is linear. Its a speed from which you have sufficient stall margin, within gear extension speed, and easy enough to slow to landing speed. 3 1
skykrawler Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 Looks to me like he leveled off on the 'base' turn starting at 156kts. In a bank speed will bleed faster. You can see the airspeed bleeding down in mostly level flight. Field elevation ~600ft. Too far out to deploy gear and still make runway. Runway length 3500 - no good for a 'fast' landing. Think I will practice spiral decent over a point next flight.
midlifeflyer Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 1 hour ago, 201er said: We do our simulated engine out practice scenarios at Vg. We’re not really familiar with the power off sink rate characteristics at high speeds. In hindsight, despite having plenty of energy, it would have still been better to slow to Vg and only deal with losing altitude. At high speed it ends up being two variables because you gotta lose the speed too. Harder to judge and predict, particularly because the drag curve changes as you slow down. Holding Vg, altitude loss is linear. Its a speed from which you have sufficient stall margin, within gear extension speed, and easy enough to slow to landing speed. I don't disagree with you at all. High and hot doesn't work well for normal landings, let alone emergency ones. That's not even a "hindsight" issue. I's foresight.
midlifeflyer Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 1 hour ago, skykrawler said: Looks to me like he leveled off on the 'base' turn starting at 156kts. In a bank speed will bleed faster. You can see the airspeed bleeding down in mostly level flight. Field elevation ~600ft. Too far out to deploy gear and still make runway. Runway length 3500 - no good for a 'fast' landing. Think I will practice spiral decent over a point next flight. Basic emergency descent (or commercial spiral) maneuver continued to a landing.
mike_elliott Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 An entire family gone. Please stay competent, not just current. We have no one left to offer assistance to here. Pilot and VictimsThe pilot was James Moffatt, age 60. The other three occupants (all family members) were: Leasa Moffatt, age 61 (his wife/spouse) Andrew Moffatt, age 30 (son) William Moffatt, age 28 (son) All four were residents of Huntsville, Alabama. They were a family traveling from the Raleigh-Durham area in North Carolina back toward Huntsville, with a refueling stop in Union, SC. The plane crashed shortly after departure while attempting to return to the airport. wyff4.com James Moffatt was explicitly identified as the pilot in multiple reports from the Union County Coroner’s Office. 2 2
Jeff Uphoff Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 4 minutes ago, mike_elliott said: They were a family traveling from the Raleigh-Durham area in North Carolina back toward Huntsville, with a refueling stop in Union, SC. The plane crashed shortly after departure while attempting to return to the airport. The flight tracks for this seem to indicate they were in cruise flight en route from TTA to 49A and tried to make a forced landing at Union. They don't show any sort of previous stop there. I saw said fuel stop reported in one of the news articles on this crash (apparently quoting a coroner), but nothing else seems to indicate it actually happened...? --Up.
1980Mooney Posted April 20 Author Report Posted April 20 Coroner says accident occurred at about 6 PM EDT which is 22:00 ZULU. ADSB shows that the landed at Union County Airport at 21:09 Coroner report says they fueled and took off.
1980Mooney Posted April 20 Author Report Posted April 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Uphoff said: The flight tracks for this seem to indicate they were in cruise flight en route from TTA to 49A and tried to make a forced landing at Union. They don't show any sort of previous stop there. I saw said fuel stop reported in one of the news articles on this crash (apparently quoting a coroner), but nothing else seems to indicate it actually happened...? --Up. Time of accident ( about 1 hour after landing) matches with a takeoff after fuel stop at Union County Airport. Edited April 20 by 1980Mooney
AndreiC Posted April 20 Report Posted April 20 The only way I can make sense of the contradictory information is if they landed safely at Union County, refueled, and the accident happened on departure. The last few seconds of the arrival and the actual departure would not have been recorded by ADS-B due to it being close to the ground. Makes me wonder if they were not over the max gross weight after refueling. But I do not understand how this relates to the reports that there was an engine issue at 6000 feet that made them divert. Does anyone have ATC recordings of the communications? 3
1980Mooney Posted April 20 Author Report Posted April 20 52 minutes ago, AndreiC said: The only way I can make sense of the contradictory information is if they landed safely at Union County, refueled, and the accident happened on departure. The last few seconds of the arrival and the actual departure would not have been recorded by ADS-B due to it being close to the ground. Makes me wonder if they were not over the max gross weight after refueling. But I do not understand how this relates to the reports that there was an engine issue at 6000 feet that made them divert. Does anyone have ATC recordings of the communications? 1981 J. Useful load was probably a tad over 900 pounds. Three adult males age approximately 30–60 years old and one adult female – add in luggage for their trip. They were definitely heavy
skykrawler Posted April 21 Report Posted April 21 https://www.foxnews.com/us/aerospace-defense-engineer-military-veteran-killed-plane-crash-family.amp Consider the info about the people in the accident rather than some conspiracy theory.
1980Mooney Posted April 21 Author Report Posted April 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, skykrawler said: https://www.foxnews.com/us/aerospace-defense-engineer-military-veteran-killed-plane-crash-family.amp Nonsensically tries to tie a Mooney plane crash to a list of deceased or "missing" individuals that worked at one of the nation's defense employers at one time. The first name on the purported list, Melissa Casias, was an administrative assistant at Los Alamos - yet Fake's News labels her a "scientist". Bogus Another name on the list - Jason Thomas—Pharmaceutical researcher at Novartis working on cancer treatments—as having "passed away unexpectedly. People do pass away unexpectedly- and not everyone broadcasts cause of death on social media. Novartis cancer research ?- That has nothing to do with "Nuclear and Space Scientists". Bogus What a shame to tie this family's obituary and sorrow to such crap reporting....AI Generated?.... Edited April 22 by 1980Mooney
IvanP Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 You can find "suspicious" pattern in just about any large enough data set. It is sad to see this kind of garbage sensationalism being put out just to get clicks and ratings. I would be curious about the cause of the engine failure. Fuel contamination?? Engine failing shortly after takeoff from refueling stop could be caused by what was put in the tank. 3
RideOrFly Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 47 minutes ago, IvanP said: I would be curious about the cause of the engine failure. Fuel contamination?? Engine failing shortly after takeoff from refueling stop could be caused by what was put in the tank. That was my thought too, especially considering the pilot’s training and experience. My J is a 79–with 4 passengers at 180 lbs and full fuel it would be about 160 lbs overweight. Doesn’t factor in baggage obviously, but under the conditions that night, I’m betting it would have flown even a bit overweight. Hard to imagine that a pilot that experienced would go into test pilot mode with his family on board.
IvanP Posted April 22 Report Posted April 22 Mooneys can fly over MTOW and I suspect that quite a few do on occasion. I used to have 1970 E and it was not really a 4 people plane. Many years ago, I found out he hard way that it would fly over gross when FBO line guy topped off the tanks even though I only asked for 10 gal in each wing to be pretty close to calculated MTOW with 3 people and luggage on board. They charged me for 20 gal and I was dumb enough not to stick the tanks before taking off and did not notice both fuel gauges pegged at full until we were airborne. Fortunately, it was at an airport with long enough runway and no steep rising terrain in the vicinity. She did fly, but the climb rate was not great. By my calculations we were about 140 lbs over gross at takeoff. Never had the plane fueled by someone else since then. Valuable lesson learned. 2
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