JB2000 Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 Hello Everyone--So, I am (and have been) very passively looking to buy my first plane, and I would like that plane to be a vintage (mostly for budget X mission reasons) Mooney. I recently spoke to someone selling one where that particular plane reportedly has some corrosion on the skin under the paint. I understand that the plane would need to be repainted--which I am not excited about, and I am not looking for a project. But, sanding and painting aside, assuming what I have been told is 100% accurate that the corrosion has so far only been observed on the skin, how bad is that? More specifically, if there is corrosion on the skin, should I be concerned that there is a chance that the corrosion could have spread to something structural or functional like a spar or a control arm or a pushrod? Is something like that possible but unlikely? Is something like that just somewhat likely, or is something like that very likely? I am not trying to talk myself into a bad situation, and I certainly have no problem moving on, but I was hoping to get some thoughts to help me evaluate the risk posed by skin corrosion and whether it would even be worthwhile to try to propose a solution that can be worked on with the seller as a part of the sale. Thanks in advance.
DCarlton Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 Two cents. I’m an owner not an expert or a mechanic. It depends on how widespread and how good the paint is overall. My plane was painted about 15 years ago. Overall the paint polishes nicely but I have a few spots of skin corrosion under the paint about the size of a nickel and I have some rust on my landing gear. I also have some old fuel stains and some wheel well flaking I’d like to clean up. I was quoted about $5K from a nearby paint shop to take care of all of it and freshen up the paint. I’d like to get it scheduled. Considering the price of a complete paint job, that’s a deal IMO. So… it depends. I view skin corrosion differently from other potential areas or forms of corrosion. It’s more readily accessed and treated using established procedures.
JB2000 Posted March 18 Author Report Posted March 18 @DCarlton Thanks for the insight. That is good to know and sounds like it will at least be good information as I continue looking at planes. For this particular plane, it's not the worst paint condition I have seen, but it does have some pretty large patches in high-wear areas like leading edges, and coupled with the corrosion, I it sounds like it would need more than a few touch-ups. $5K is not bad at all to clean up some corrosion, but I am operating on the assumption that it needs a full strip, corrosion repair/mitigation, then paint. I don't even know what the cost would be on that. I suppose from your post, that it would not be a waste of time to get detailed photos of the corrosion to get a better sense of what I am facing potentially. 1
Fly Boomer Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 9 hours ago, JB2000 said: full strip, corrosion repair/mitigation, then paint. I don't even know what the cost would be If it's a nice airplane, about 40 AMU. You can get paint for less, but you may not be happy with it, and it's a shame to spend 30 AMU for something you are not satisfied with. I agree with @bluehighwayflyer -- I would keep looking. Rationalizing all the "little things" that you can fix is expensive and time consuming. There will be plenty of things you didn't discover before purchase to keep you busy. 2
KSMooniac Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 First of all, most skin on a Mooney is structural! Only the cabin skin forward of the tailcone is not. Having said that, a little exterior surface corrosion from missing paint isn't likely a big deal, and can be addressed easily enough. If you're serious about the plane, you need an educated eye to look inside the wing, wheel wells, behind the interior panels, under the back seats, etc and see if there is corrosion there too. That's where the deal breaker corrosion will be. Sent from my motorola edge plus 2023 using Tapatalk 3
Fritz1 Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 as stated before there may be nothing, but there can be something, if everything else looks good have a knowledgeable Mooney guy do a corrosion inspection, the dangerous stuff is what you don't see from the outside, fuselage tubes under windows, stub spar... seek and you shall find... 3
MikeOH Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 15 hours ago, JB2000 said: I am not trying to talk myself into a bad situation, and I certainly have no problem moving on Good! And, you should move on! There are too many fish in the sea to pick the one with the scales flaking off 2
1980Mooney Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 (edited) 7 hours ago, Fly Boomer said: If it's a nice airplane, about 40 AMU. You can get paint for less, but you may not be happy with it, and it's a shame to spend 30 AMU for something you are not satisfied with. I agree with @bluehighwayflyer -- I would keep looking. Rationalizing all the "little things" that you can fix is expensive and time consuming. There will be plenty of things you didn't discover before purchase to keep you busy. That's ridiculous. I was stunned the other day when Skip @PT20J posted that his paint job cost $40K (I am sure it was meticulous) . @JB2000 - you do not need to spend that much for a good complete paint job. If you join Beechtalk, there are several discussions on this. Also some are taking their planes to Mexico to get them painted - they report saving $15K (and using the same prep & paint). There is a topic on that. There is a Nov. 2024 testimonial - V tail Bonanza done for $23.5K by Dial Eastern There is a Nov. 2025 testimonial of a V35A done by Foster’s in Lakeland, FL. OP said it cost $25K for the paintjob alone - that excludes the cost to design a fancy paint scheme and layout. The owner posted a YouTube (see below) Bonanza owners are generally picky - no cutting corners. The V tails are magnesium and need to be absolutely perfect. The pictures on both are stunning - wheel wells look as good as the top of the wings. Edited March 18 by 1980Mooney 2
1980Mooney Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 Yeah I know it is marketing, but they do provide a description of their work and guideline range of estimates on pricing in the first link.... Aircraft Painting Cost 2026: Pricing Guide & Factors - JetPro Finish How Much Does It Cost To Paint A Piper Cherokee? - JetPro Finish 1
PT20J Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: I was stunned the other day when Skip @PT20J posted that his paint job cost $40K (I am sure it was meticulous) Just to be clear, the base price was $32K for a basic layout with a light base color and two trim colors. My design was pretty much all curves and so there was a charge for an extra couple of days of layout. I wanted it alodined since I live on the coast and there was an additional charge for that which I was told went mostly for the hazmat disposal fee. About half of the color scheme is red. Red paint is more expensive so there was an additional charge for that. After painting, they spent a week detailing any areas that weren't perfect. Factored into my budget was the fact that this shop is local, so I saved the transportation cost of getting to and from a remote shop to drop it off and pick it up. 1
jetdriven Posted March 18 Report Posted March 18 Those guys getting their planes painted in Mexico are not getting the exact same job they would get in the US. And a lot of those paint jobs are the ones that get filiform corrosion five years later. 4
JB2000 Posted March 19 Author Report Posted March 19 Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. While I am of the opinion that the plane is not priced cheap--especially considering the corrosion, it certainly could be priced much cheaper--the point is well taken. Overall, what I am taking away is that my initial misgivings about the corrosion were appropriate and that I am not overreacting by thinking I should stay away. Last I checked, I am 1.5 to 2 years out on the local hangar waitlist, so I do not mind taking my time as I keep looking for the right fit. Thanks everyone for all the feedback. It has truly been helpful. 3
MikeOH Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 @JB2000 Having only shopped and purchased one aircraft, take this FWIW, but you should really look at several aircraft before buying one. I kinda went extreme on that plan and took many years to find my plane; I probably looked at over a dozen, in person! Doing this, IMHO, 'calibrates' you to the range of conditions planes are in, pricing, and sellers (some you are better off just not doing business with!). After looking at a few you'll 'know' when a good deal comes along. Passing on the first plane you look at is a GOOD thing! 2
Fritz1 Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 cannot agree more, look at a couple of airplanes, test fly, do a prebuy and pay for it, buying an airplane is an art like buying a vintage Ferrari, when I bought the Bravo I had been looking for about 2 years, lots of logbook evaluations, 3 on site inspections, one completed prebuy that I walked away from, after a couple of rounds you develop a procedure and assemble a prebuy team, there is no perfect airplane, even new ones right out of the factory come with kinks that take time to work out, therefore take your time and choose wisely!
1980Mooney Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 17 hours ago, jetdriven said: Those guys getting their planes painted in Mexico are not getting the exact same job they would get in the US. And a lot of those paint jobs are the ones that get filiform corrosion five years later. Huh...I expected to hear that. What exactly are they doing different down there? The chemicals are noxious. Good prep is exceedingly labor intensive with attention to detail. Spraying is an art. Are you saying that they are leaving out some obvious well-known step in prep?
1980Mooney Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 (edited) On 3/17/2026 at 9:52 PM, JB2000 said: Hello Everyone--So, I am (and have been) very passively looking to buy my first plane, and I would like that plane to be a vintage (mostly for budget X mission reasons) Mooney. 15 hours ago, JB2000 said: Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. While I am of the opinion that the plane is not priced cheap--especially considering the corrosion, it certainly could be priced much cheaper--the point is well taken. Overall, what I am taking away is that my initial misgivings about the corrosion were appropriate and that I am not overreacting by thinking I should stay away. Last I checked, I am 1.5 to 2 years out on the local hangar waitlist, so I do not mind taking my time as I keep looking for the right fit. Thanks everyone for all the feedback. It has truly been helpful. 4 hours ago, Fritz1 said: cannot agree more, look at a couple of airplanes, test fly, do a prebuy and pay for it, buying an airplane is an art like buying a vintage Ferrari, when I bought the Bravo I had been looking for about 2 years, lots of logbook evaluations, 3 on site inspections, one completed prebuy that I walked away from, after a couple of rounds you develop a procedure and assemble a prebuy team, there is no perfect airplane, even new ones right out of the factory come with kinks that take time to work out, therefore take your time and choose wisely! Finding a plane that is mostly the way that you want it will be the most cost effective even if you have to pay a little more up front. This discussion highlighted the cost down the road in "fixing" a known problem. The reason is because plane owners lose about half of what they invest in their planes immediately. (it is like spending money on vintage cars) A fresh overhaul from a reputable shop retains more but other investments don't. If you are going to own it "forever", it might make sense to buy a plane that needs large known investment. You may also see a very experienced owner or an owner who is an A&P do it. But generally, it doesn't make sense for a new first time buyer. Also your plane may be down for an extended time just when you want to be flying. But be careful of ads with "fresh overhaul" however unless it is a known shop. Here is an example of an owner that bought a Mooney M20J in 2021. He sunk a lot of money into upgrades (but not the engine - it has 1,200 hours on it since Overhaul - and unknown years) and put it up for sale in 2023. He was looking for over $300K, It is still for sale - currently asking $234,900 and it just had an Annual in December. 1979 MOONEY M20J For Sale in Lexington, Kentucky | Controller.com Edited March 19 by 1980Mooney 1
N201MKTurbo Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 There are probably Mexican shops that can and do as good a paint as anybody here. Some probably don’t. I think making a blanket statement that there is no quality work in Mexico is bad. One thing that will lower the cost down there is that they don’t have environmental regulations as strict as ours. I don’t know any Mexican paint shops and haven’t seen any bad or good work. I see Mexican airplanes regularly and they look as good as American airplanes. Does anybody have pics of crappy Mexican paint work?
Fly Boomer Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 17 hours ago, JB2000 said: I am 1.5 to 2 years out on the local hangar waitlist Super smart in my opinion. I got a hangar before I bought an airplane. For me, the wait was years, but it also took years to find the airplane I wanted. 1
hammdo Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 Some airports are getting smarter, they ask if you own one or not, those with planes move up the list faster… -Don 1 1
JB2000 Posted March 20 Author Report Posted March 20 8 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: Finding a plane that is mostly the way that you want it will be the most cost effective even if you have to pay a little more up front. Right there with you on that. I am looking for a plane that I will own for 10+ years. I am not looking for an investment or a project. I want something that I can use right away and often and that will do what I need. My ideal plane will have steam gauges, 2 VOR receivers (one of which would be nice if it were an HSI), and 1 RNAV unit (WAAS would be nice to have, but I am not picky about that). I won't avert my eyes if I come across something with sexier avionics, but I also know that I don't need to stretch for that either. All things being equal, I would rather have a lower time engine than dual G5s. 16 minutes ago, hammdo said: Some airports are getting smarter, they ask if you own one or not, those with planes move up the list faster… -Don Correct about that. I am hoping to let enough time pass to make it further up the list close enough to the top so that when I do get the plane I can tell the airport and get priority for a hangar slot. But, if the right fit comes along before a permanent hangar solution happens for me, I will figure it out. 1
McMooney Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 40k seems way high, highest quote i currenlty have is 30k. the big known award winning shops are between 20 and 26k, 30k was the guys at kaxh 1
MikeOH Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 13 hours ago, McMooney said: 40k seems way high, highest quote i currenlty have is 30k. the big known award winning shops are between 20 and 26k, 30k was the guys at kaxh Hmm, based on my research, admittedly not rigorous, that is a BASE cost with simple single low-cost color/with stripe design that assumes NO work will need to be done after stripping. You want red, repairs, multiple colors, an actual design scheme...I think $40K is the going rate. While I find even the $30K to be insane, it is what it is, and if I was gong to spend $30K I would pony up for the $40K to get what I wanted. Are you really going to be happy spending $30K to get your plane painted white? As far as Mexico, the labor costs are certainly going to drop the price. Thing is, how long have they been around, how many reviews, what has been the long term (>5 year) performance when compared to the well-know large US shops (e.g. Artcraft)? Also, what happens if there are disagreements? Doubtful your 'contract' is going to be practically enforceable; their lien is going to be to just keep your plane in THEIR country. Good luck with getting it back until you just give up and pay whatever they ask. 1
chunko Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 You only need to repaint where the corrosion is, because that is where the corrosion preventive covering (paint) is missing (damaged). Any reasonable A&P can scuff, alodine (at your request), prime, touch up, no issue. It won't be visually perfect, but it will be safe. That being said, some paint shops are really good at color matching. The only real exception to this is intergranular corrosion, which turns into exfoliation at the surface. That would require replacement of metal. Paint peeling is never a reason to repaint an entire plane, unless the peeling is most of the paint. 1
theplanesalon Posted March 22 Report Posted March 22 Did someone ring? Yup, we are a paint shop - along with doing Avionics, Interiors, and maintenance. And YES, we can do a complete strip and paint for 14-18k, less than Mexico charges with better quality...though chances are you want some extras (Mooneys are retractables, agree?) This week in our shop, we currently have an R66, an Aerostar, An F33, 3 172's, A Cherokee, a 177, a 206, and a 210 on the floor. We delivered a number of aircraft in the last month. One of our painters has won top Oshkosh honors 4 times. Others are way more qualified Keep reading... A Paint Job isn't just a paint job. The thing most owners don't get about paint until they repaint their ship is the sheer amount of preventive maintenance a paint job addresses or resolves when an aircraft has been neglected - even a little. Spraying it is easy; finding serious corrosion, gobs of cracks in your aluminum that you didn't notice, or your fiberglass, or neglected or badly installed bushings, bolts, missing cotter pins, hives, nests, missing seals and liners, screws, retractable gear bungees that are damaged, control surfaces that are about to fail are all things we deal with on the regular. Bonanzas have seals EVERYWHERE so when you strip and paint them (hence the much higher cost to paint them). The seals alone are fairly pricey and there's a substantially greater amount of detail that goes into them. You can always tell the difference between a shop that does cheesy work versus someone that takes the time by whether or not they took the time to source and get all the seals done. Many paint jobs don't acid etch the aluminum; others don't alodine. When I took over my shop, they didn't do either. Today, we absolutely do. Timeframes: The R66 took 2 weeks and 2 days (promised in 3) - from a very shiny brand-new Pumpkin Orange and Silver to a Matte Black which is harder to paint and shows each and every little thing any paint shop could miss. The 172's are taking 2-3 weeks along with the 177's; 210's take another week due to retractable gear, size, type and detail. Our Mooneys take about 3-4 weeks because of how they're built, including degreasing and detailing all the landing gear and getting into all of the nooks and crannies that we must. King Airs, Pilatuses, Merlins take a bit longer - they're huge, and pressurized airplanes take even more time. I'll quote 25-50 percent longer than it takes just because I don't want to disappoint. Details: Many nearby shops paint aircraft with inspection plates and cowlings on - we don't. We remove everything. It is substandard to check out the overspray each and every time you remove your cowling for an oil change. Many customers like us to paint the inside of their cowls during a paint job - and we are happy to do that for them. Not every customer wants their door jambs painted. We are happy to paint them for you so that the last 7 paint jobs along with the original paint job doesn't show. Some people don't include hardware; some people want their screws painted, some don't. One nearby shop that does a ton of business was reported by several on the Beechtalk forum to strip the top of the wings but sand the bottom. Ugh. If you're going to take on the job, do it right...we all make our mistakes at times, but that's intentionally substandard. We did a 150 taildragger and have a 172 taildragger both used as back country bush planes - both remove the interior panels and want us to paint the interior sheet metal - tedious and detail-oriented work and we are happy to do it. Some people in Alaska bring their aircraft for us to paint somewhat regularly. Bonanza owners are meticulous; if you purchased your bonanza parts from a particular shop, chances are very high we painted them. Materials: Many shops use materials that would make you cringe. You see a shiny airplane - you're super happy - you paid less than the other guy. A couple of years later, you realize your airplane was painted with "Essentials" - fleet paint. Or, it was painted with Jetglo like my Mooney was at the factory...which didn't last; still here - one of these days I'll paint that airplane . The clear coat failed after a couple of years. Or Akzo. A local paint shop bases their aircraft with Imron, but your stripes are painted with Excelpro - half or less the cost, and substantially lower longevity. We use IMRON products only for all the complete paint job. From 13580s or 13550s chromated primer, to AF400/AF3500 Single Stage to AF700 Base Coats, to acid etching and alodining, simply because we want to offer the most durable paint jobs out-there. And yes, they're legal in California for aviation - our booth is licensed for them. We can use ANY paint in the world - House of Kolor, fancy candies and pearls, you name it. Our paint booth will at times host Hotrods, LowRiders, funny cars, dragsters and more - here's a link to one of my partners / senior painter here / best friend who teaches and paints here - here's a link to what he does when someone wants something out of the ordinary. Instagram Cost: Imron takes forEVER to dry compared to other paints, so it takes more time in a paint booth. The more colors you paint, the more time it takes up in the booth. Each and every color requires we mask the aircraft for the specific color being painted - more colors, more masking, more time in the booth, greater cost. We can ABSOLUTELY paint an aircraft for $15k. And yes, we can strip and paint it for that - no need to go to Mexico for that, and they absolutely do use different materials than we do often - we're less expensive by the time you're done, we're in CALIFORNIA, and you're always welcome to drop by if you need a touch up after paint. When people don't know us, price is one of the things we can alter to bring people to our shop. $40k? Sure, but we would have to demonstrate substantially more work / value to our customer to charge that for a Mooney. That said, consider the following: - retractable? My guys need to spend a day or two degreasing, detailing and cleaning up your wheel wells and then primering and painting them to look new. - Do you want your n numbers painted, as is standard by us, or vinyl? Many brokers bring their planes here for white jobs with nothing more than vinyl n numbers, so the buyer can paint it anyway they wish. - Window replacement and then sealing the windows after paint so that water doesn't seep in after the paint job? That takes a little time to mask them and PRC them. Let's order windows way ahead so that you don't have to wait while your aircraft is here. - Door jambs? They take a little extra time . Cowlings, plates, landing gear, fairings, we take a little more time to paint them separately. Nothing worse than when a passenger gets into your newly painted airplane, and the paint is peeling off in the jambs from when it was painted 40 years ago. - Colors: You can buy a gallon of White Imron for a little less than $500. Red? $2200-2500. J3 Yellow? $1,800. Colors matter. I have ways to help my customers reduce their overall cost. - Partials? Someone just dropped off an aircraft for leading edge paint today after a STOL kit install. Someone else is dropping off a baron next week for nacelles / cowlings and a few other details, as they needed us to match the paint color. Corrosion repair? We do that. If you have any questions, give us a ring - we run an open shop, so you're always welcome to drop by - from your gear up to your touch up, we can help. Can we talk about upholstery or avionics now?
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