1980Mooney Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 I happened to look at the Mooney International Corporation website. I noticed the leadership change. There is no news announcement on the Mooney site. And no announcement on Facebook on Mooney International Corporation, LASAR or Mooney Pilots pages. I have not yet searched the Texas Secretary of State website Corporation Database for changes in ownership to Texas registered companies (which Mooney is). Did the owners/investors at US Financial Group LLC (Wyoming) bail out ?- the "Jonny Group" that announced that they owned 80% of Mooney in 2020 Anyone know?....
Hank Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 Maybe they're the ones bringing out the new model? https://mooneyspace.com/topic/54524-new-18m-mooney/ 2
Justin Schmidt Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 So I was correct?! Lasar "bought" Mooney and their assurance scheme was to get owners to pay for it without equity so lasar wouldn't have to risk their own capital. 1
exM20K Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 Owning 80% of the equity is like being “the strongest man in Connecticut.” Or maybe the 10,000th strongest. If there is/was a big note out there that originated with Soaring America (or whatever that company was) or someone else, a UCC search would show some info. There doesn't appear to be a Mooney International registered in texas, and Wyoming doesn't have a quick/easy way to search for any leins on US Financial LLC. Whoever holds the debt controls the company. -dan 3
1980Mooney Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 2 hours ago, takair said: Same folks as LASAR from what I can tell. Yup
0TreeLemur Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 I think this AI generated press release from LASAR, which was previously posted IIRC, explains it all (straight story, no fluff): https://lasar.com/announcements/2025/10/24/whats-going-on-with-mooney-amp-lasar-the-straight-story
1980Mooney Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, exM20K said: Owning 80% of the equity is like being “the strongest man in Connecticut.” Or maybe the 10,000th strongest. There is/was a big note out there that originated, IIRC, with Soaring America (or whatever that company was). Whoever holds the debt controls the company. -dan Bingo. You understand it well. That is exactly what happened at Vans Aircraft. The founders, the VanGrunsven family, held notes (debt) from Vans Aircraft. Most of the notes were secured by the assets of Vans Aircraft company as collateral. Then VanGrunsven “sold” a majority of Vans Aircraft to the Employees (an ESOP). But when Vans Aircraft got into financial trouble the VanGrunsven wound up owning 100% of Vans again and the Employees got wiped out. VanGrunsven ultimately pulled all the strings even when he sold the company. When you invest cash in a company, you can do it two ways - in the form of equity and/or in the form of debt. Debt can be secured or have conversion features (to turn it into equity). Equity holders control it day to day. But when things get into trouble, the note and debt holders wind up controlling the company (it comes back like a yo-yo). Meijing (Soaring America) likely holds big notes against Mooney Int’l Corp (those notes likely represent much of the $millions that they invested). The Chinese may have been dumb to invest so much into Mooney but that doesn’t mean they are stupid…) Edited February 4 by 1980Mooney
Paul Thomas Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 Do we know that Mooney owe Soaring America or is that an educated guess? 1
1980Mooney Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 27 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said: I think this AI generated press release from LASAR, which was previously posted IIRC, explains it all (straight story, no fluff): https://lasar.com/announcements/2025/10/24/whats-going-on-with-mooney-amp-lasar-the-straight-story Except that Stokes signed it as CEO LASAR. And not Mooney. They are different legal entities with different liabilities. Now he shows up as CEO Mooney. The memo shows their intent but it just muddles what is actually happening.
1980Mooney Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Paul Thomas said: Do we know that Mooney owe Soaring America or is that an educated guess? Per AI: In October 2013, Soaring America Corporation, acting as a front for or subsidiary of the Chinese real estate developer Meijing Group, acquired the Mooney Aviation Company. Aviation Week Network +2 Investment: The acquisition reportedly involved a $100 million payment, with an additional $1 billion investment plan aimed at expanding operations and establishing a manufacturing presence in China. Current Status: Meijing Group remained the majority shareholder until September 2020, when a group of U.S. financial investors, led by US Financial, LLC, purchased the majority share from Soaring America to return the company to American ownership. Aviation Week Network +6 Mooney continues to operate as a corporate entity focused on supporting its existing fleet and maintaining its FAA production certificate. Edited February 4 by 1980Mooney 1
1980Mooney Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Paul Thomas said: Do we know that Mooney owe Soaring America or is that an educated guess? Educated guess that they owe Meijing. Meijing had the money - not Soaring America. Like I said the Chinese may have been dumb to invest in Mooney but they are not Stupid… Edited February 4 by 1980Mooney 1
exM20K Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 The most worrisome aspect of the leadership team photo @1980Mooney posted is, to me, the absence of Kevin Kammer. He was a wealth of knowledge about the business and engineering. -dan
skykrawler Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 It would be interesting to know the basis for any valuation. They don't seem to make profit on the type certificate in any real way. 1
PT20J Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 It's easy to sell a losing business if you can find someone that wants to buy it but has no cash. I once sold a product line that was losing money for $1 just to be rid of it.
Yetti Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 I don't think the LASAR "we all want to be friends" invest in our parts business videos will age well when it looks like they were trying to raise capital to buy Mooney 1
Justin Schmidt Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 4 minutes ago, Yetti said: I don't think the LASAR "we all want to be friends" invest in our parts business videos will age well when it looks like they were trying to raise capital to buy Mooney There is a term for that, fraud. FTC doesn't like that so much
Will.iam Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 4 hours ago, Justin Schmidt said: There is a term for that, fraud. FTC doesn't like that so much Uugh if lasar was indeed trying to do that it just makes Lasar feel like a slimy company to do business with. But they did deliver my wing top fuel gauges with a quick efficiency and wasn’t the cheapest price but they were not double the lowest price competitor either.
PT20J Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Will.iam said: Uugh if lasar was indeed trying to do that it just makes Lasar feel like a slimy company to do business with. But they did deliver my wing top fuel gauges with a quick efficiency and wasn’t the cheapest price but they were not double the lowest price competitor either. LASAR orders the gauges a few at a time. So, if you place an order when they have some in stock, you get quick delivery. If they aren’t in stock, you get added to a wait list for the next time they order some which could be weeks or months.
IvanP Posted February 5 Report Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, PT20J said: LASAR orders the gauges a few at a time. So, if you place an order when they have some in stock, you get quick delivery. If they aren’t in stock, you get added to a wait list for the next time they order some which could be weeks or months. I waited few months for mine if I recall correctly. Did not mind as it is not airworthy item.
MB65E Posted February 6 Report Posted February 6 If Mooney declares where their debts are owed, there will be buyers out there that could acquire company. I think LASAR was the most recent culprit in the “debt” Mooney as acquired. LASAR, Souring America, Meijing, Mooney international, and others all seem like partners to spread the debt with . It’s super complex, a lot of irons are in the pot, and the fire is almost out. Until then, eBay works for me. -Matt
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