Engine rebuild/replace

[DavidB]

My recently deceased brother’s 2004 DX is on the market. The engine is past TBO at 2300 hrs. I have a buyer but the availability of parts to overhaul looks like an issue with 6 month timelines for some parts. New engines are virtually unavailable. 
 

it is a Lycoming TIO-540-AF1B

If anyone has any suggestions for sourcing parts or a new engine I would be very grateful.

thanks, 

David

[Steve Skinner]

Afternoon.
I rebuilt one at 2000 hrs in Australia in 2016 and it cost about $60k USD
I would have thought most parts would be available??
Your brother did extremely well to get to 2300 hrs considering they are mandated 25 hr oil changes and he was doing well in excess of 30hrs. Quite extraordinary and with very good compressions as well.
You’ll need a complete new exhaust system - they take an absolute hammering over time.
So if you were to buy a crated engine there is all the extras to consider.
I’m sorry I can’t contribute much to your problem but thought your issues fairly unique.


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[DavidB]

Just now, Steve Skinner said:

Afternoon.
I rebuilt one at 2000 hrs in Australia in 2016 and it cost about $60k USD
I would have thought most parts would be available??
Your brother did extremely well to get to 2300 hrs considering they are mandated 25 hr oil changes and he was doing well in excess of 30hrs. Quite extraordinary and with very good compressions as well.
You’ll need a complete new exhaust system - they take an absolute hammering over time.
So if you were to buy a crated engine there is all the extras to consider.
I’m sorry I can’t contribute much to your problem but thought your issues fairly unique.


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Thanks Steve. He’d taken his 231 to TBO twice & absolutely babied this one which he had built for him. Correct about the exhaust. 
 

BTW- I used to live in Manly Qld. Now in North Carolina & fly a Columbia 400. 
Cheers! 

[kortopates]

I would think most knowledgeable buyers would much prefer to buy the airplane with the runout engine, fly it for awhile assuming it’s still airworthy and then get the overhaul of their choice so that they can go through everything as the owner.
A seller can’t really afford to do it right and re-coop all their cost, and will have to continue paying other fixed cost while it’s going through OH.


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[Boilermonkey]

If I were buying I just get a firm quote for a factory reman, add it to the price and be done.  It's the least risky path, albeit more expensive.   

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, Boilermonkey said:

If I were buying I just get a firm quote for a factory reman, add it to the price and be done.  It's the least risky path, albeit more expensive.   

Plus even if takes 2 years to get the reman, the new owner can continue to fly the airplane on condition until the new engine arrives. If the present owner has flown it intelligently enough to get it to 2300 hours and the borescope looks good I would be more comfortable flying 200 hours on this engine than than the first 200 on the new "unproven" engine.

[Fritz1]

Looked up the factory reman engine yesterday, lists at $119k, if I were to sell the airplane i would sell it with the high time engine, if I were to buy the airplane I would want to buy it with the high time engine, buyer typically wants an overhaul done his way and the engine will take a while to overhaul / reman, the engine is more than likely good for another couple of hundred hours

[DavidB]

On 1/4/2026 at 2:56 PM, Fritz1 said:

Looked up the factory reman engine yesterday, lists at $119k, if I were to sell the airplane i would sell it with the high time engine, if I were to buy the airplane I would want to buy it with the high time engine, buyer typically wants an overhaul done his way and the engine will take a while to overhaul / reman, the engine is more than likely good for another couple of hundred hours

Can you point me to the site that can do a factory reman? Thanks

[Schllc]

I am pretty sure only lycoming can do a reman, everything else is a field overhaul. 

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, DavidB said:

Can you point me to the site that can do a factory reman? Thanks

What do you perceive to be the benefit of a factory reman over a field overhaul? 

[Schllc]

5 hours ago, Shadrach said:

What do you perceive to be the benefit of a factory reman over a field overhaul? 

I think a quality shop can do as good a job as the factory, the challenge to the first timer is understanding what is included and what is not included in the "overhaul"

All "overhauls" are not equal.  Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  example, the factory new engine comes with exhaust and accessories.  a field overhaul will not include any accessories unless requested, and they will of course add money to the overhaul.  Neither will come with new baffles and engine mounts, fuel/oil hoses/scat tubing ect.  As with any large purchase, the details matter, and make sure your expectations are inline with what you are actually getting.

That being said, it certainly seems like a field overhaul is the only real option, i sincerely don't even understand how someone can run a business with a two year lead time for something as simple as one of our engines.  It seems to defy all common sense and rationality.   

The only excuse is because they can.

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, Schllc said:

I think a quality shop can do as good a job as the factory, the challenge to the first timer is understanding what is included and what is not included in the "overhaul"

All "overhauls" are not equal.  Make sure you are comparing apples to apples.  example, the factory new engine comes with exhaust and accessories.  a field overhaul will not include any accessories unless requested, and they will of course add money to the overhaul.  Neither will come with new baffles and engine mounts, fuel/oil hoses/scat tubing ect.  As with any large purchase, the details matter, and make sure your expectations are inline with what you are actually getting.

That being said, it certainly seems like a field overhaul is the only real option, i sincerely don't even understand how someone can run a business with a two year lead time for something as simple as one of our engines.  It seems to defy all common sense and rationality.   

The only excuse is because they can.

Agree that one needs to specify what's included up front. When we had ours overhauled in 2000, we had everything attached to the powerplant renewed or replaced. The IRAN in 2011 was much less comprehensive.  

I only asked the question because there are so many people that get caught up in the "0 time" aspect of the factory engine without fully understanding the reason behind it.  My hats off to the factory marketing mind that came up with the idea of calling a collection of parts with unknown time in service, "0 time".  Moreover, many of the overhaulers offer equal to or better warrantees than the factory.

[Fritz1]

Any Lycoming dealer like airpower or Triad will be happy to sell the factory reman engine, the nice thing about is that the airplane can be flown until the reman engine shows up, there are many shops like Lycon, Gann or Victor that will do a job as good or better than factory, however aircraft is down during overhaul while waiting for parts e.g. cylinders, considering the many unique parts in this engine, cylinders, exhaust, turbo, wastegate, the reman is a very viable consideration

[Jetpilot86]

On 1/5/2026 at 9:22 AM, Shadrach said:

What do you perceive to be the benefit of a factory reman over a field overhaul? 

New/OH Turbo if you need one.  The FOH on mine came with a new turbo...

[DavePage]

I had my engine done beginning in  Jul 2022.  Did everything, turbo, exhaust, vacuum, etc.  Took a little over 1 yr downtime, cost $89K USD.  Wait time was exasperating, there is such a shortage of skilled labor in this country, eg. getting case recon - facility had 2 machines, but only 1 qualified operator, and the list goes on and on  Exhaust system O/H was also time consuming, as expert welders are in short supply.  Parts logistics can also be a bad dream.  

[KSMooniac]

Midwest Aircraft Services in Newton, KS (just north of Wichita) Midwest Aircraft Services Inc. - Aircraft Repairs Newton KS is an excellent engine shop and do a LOT of TIO-541 engines for "working" planes.  They have done great work for me in the past, including just replacing a couple of valve guides for me around Christmas.  They might be able to help in a more timely fashion than other shops.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, DavePage said:

I had my engine done beginning in  Jul 2022.  Did everything, turbo, exhaust, vacuum, etc.  Took a little over 1 yr downtime, cost $89K USD.  Wait time was exasperating, there is such a shortage of skilled labor in this country, eg. getting case recon - facility had 2 machines, but only 1 qualified operator, and the list goes on and on  Exhaust system O/H was also time consuming, as expert welders are in short supply.  Parts logistics can also be a bad dream.  

Who did your engine?

[Raptortail]

I am just finishing up an 8 month process to overhaul my TIO-540-AF1B and what an experience.  The challenge is there are only ~140 of these Bravos flying so parts are very hard to come by.  The hardest part to get is the valve guides because they are oil cooled and Lycoming doesn't make them very often.  I called around and found a shop that did an overhaul of this engine the previous year and they bought two sets knowing someone like me would call eventually.  That was a big time saver and lucky break. 

I chose a field overhaul by an engine shop instead of a reman because most people I talked to said it would take up to 2 years to get a reman sent because its a long wait for new cylinders.  My cylinders and pistons were in reasonable shape to be overhauled and with new guides, springs and rods I should be ok.   The base cost of the overhaul was $110K, but by the time you add all the new hoses, overhauled alternator, v-band clamp, prop governor overhaul, various filters, mounts, specialty nuts, and shop rates to pull and replace the engine, I am closer to $142K.  In my case, I also had to overhaul the prop and ended up buying 3 new blades for a cool additional $20K (kill me now).   I should have the final cost in a few weeks but I'm at about $165K all-in with an 8mo turnaround. 

My engine overhaul was done by Twin Engine Aircraft in Newnan, GA and they did a fantastic job managing the overhaul process with all the many overhauled parts that had to be sent out to shops around the country.  Gilmer Aviation in Pell City, AL pulled the engine and put it back on and also did a great job.  

[Fritz1]

Wow, thanks for the prep, my engine is coming up on 900h, no trouble so far, replaced waste gate a year ago, have one new spare cylinder and will order a set of valve guides now just in case

[LANCECASPER]

On 1/21/2026 at 4:17 PM, Raptortail said:

I am just finishing up an 8 month process to overhaul my TIO-540-AF1B and what an experience.  The challenge is there are only ~140 of these Bravos flying so parts are very hard to come by.  The hardest part to get is the valve guides because they are oil cooled and Lycoming doesn't make them very often.  I called around and found a shop that did an overhaul of this engine the previous year and they bought two sets knowing someone like me would call eventually.  That was a big time saver and lucky break. 

I chose a field overhaul by an engine shop instead of a reman because most people I talked to said it would take up to 2 years to get a reman sent because its a long wait for new cylinders.  My cylinders and pistons were in reasonable shape to be overhauled and with new guides, springs and rods I should be ok.   The base cost of the overhaul was $110K, but by the time you add all the new hoses, overhauled alternator, v-band clamp, prop governor overhaul, various filters, mounts, specialty nuts, and shop rates to pull and replace the engine, I am closer to $142K.  In my case, I also had to overhaul the prop and ended up buying 3 new blades for a cool additional $20K (kill me now).   I should have the final cost in a few weeks but I'm at about $165K all-in with an 8mo turnaround. 

My engine overhaul was done by Twin Engine Aircraft in Newnan, GA and they did a fantastic job managing the overhaul process with all the many overhauled parts that had to be sent out to shops around the country.  Gilmer Aviation in Pell City, AL pulled the engine and put it back on and also did a great job.  

 

From 1989-2005 Mooney made 350 M20Ms. A few have gone down but not 210 of them. Most likely there are nearly 310-320 still flying.

 

Just a comment on the scarcity of the exhaust valve guides . . . .  what makes them difficult to obtain is that these particular exhaust valve guides are only used in the Bravo engines (-AF1B). The valve guide material is improved with a higher chrome content in response to valve guide wear in the first few hundred hours on the -AF1A engines, plus there's even a small groove cut into the outer diameter of the guide for the oil to flow through. So since this is (1) the only application for this valve guide, and since (2) they are made from a unique material with a groove cut in and (3) there are only roughly 320 engines in the world that use them, they are hard to come by.

 

@DavePage just had a Bravo engine overhauled for $89,000, which is still extremely expensive for a field overhaul on this engine. At $140,000 they are taking you for a ride on a field overhaul. Other than the fact that it's more expensive to overhaul these cylinders than most cylinders, there is nothing more expensive to rebuild on that engine than any other 6 cylinder Turbo Lycoming. They are charging you the most for an overhaul in the history of the TIO-540-AF1B, especially since it has overhauled cylinders. Hopefully they are including the overhaul of the entire exhaust system as well, since it almost always needs to be done on this engine at overhaul. (I've had three Bravos over the years, including the very first Bravo, serial #209)

I have never heard of this engine shop doing a TIO-540-AF1B before, at least here on Mooneyspace. Not to say that they aren’t capable, but it sounds like it started without a firm quote and that they are learning on your dime. I would hate to pay an hourly shop rate for their tuition. Time will tell if they "did a fantastic job". Hopefully they did. 

 

If you're going to replace three blades on a three blade prop, you have much better options on new props now than the McCauley prop from when that airplane was introduced in 1989. Hartzell makes a Top Prop for the M20M which gives you a few extra knots and it is much smoother (https://generalaviationnews.com/2022/06/22/stc-approved-for-hartzell-prop-for-mooneys/) and MT makes a 4 blade prop for the M20M which is also much smoother (https://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/stcs/mooney_5.htm)

 

[hazek]

Dear me, what have I gotten myself into having this plane.

[LANCECASPER]

One thing to remember  . . . if a Bravo was still being sold new today it would be over a million dollars, let's say 1.2.  Even though you might be able to buy a used Bravo for $175-250k or sometimes even less if it has high time, needs paint, interior, panel, etc., you are sill going to have to pay to maintain an aging 1.2 million dollar airplane. 

As expensive as airplanes are to buy, you'll usually get most, if not all, of your purchase price back some day - although the dollars will be worth less then. Sometimes before someone even buys the airplane they are talking about what upgrades they are planning. Unless you have an airplane account with a nice reserve close to the purchase price, hold off and fly it for a year or two and take care of all of the (1) initial squawks, (2) maintain it properly, and (3) then worry about upgrades. Over the years it can be those three things that will easily cost much more than the purchase price.

It's been said before that unless you have the funds set aside to overhaul an engine, at some point you're going to get hit with a bad surprise. Since airplanes are an emotional purchase very few people live by the idea of having the funds set aside though. With the price of engines today, it's very hard to sell an airplane that's had a catastrophic engine failure or even making metal for more than 30 to 40 cents on the dollar, as-is. If the airplane is financed that could really throw a wrench into things. 

[rpcc]

16 hours ago, Raptortail said:

I am just finishing up an 8 month process to overhaul my TIO-540-AF1B and what an experience.  The challenge is there are only ~140 of these Bravos flying so parts are very hard to come by.  The hardest part to get is the valve guides because they are oil cooled and Lycoming doesn't make them very often.  I called around and found a shop that did an overhaul of this engine the previous year and they bought two sets knowing someone like me would call eventually.  That was a big time saver and lucky break. 

I chose a field overhaul by an engine shop instead of a reman because most people I talked to said it would take up to 2 years to get a reman sent because its a long wait for new cylinders.  My cylinders and pistons were in reasonable shape to be overhauled and with new guides, springs and rods I should be ok.   The base cost of the overhaul was $110K, but by the time you add all the new hoses, overhauled alternator, v-band clamp, prop governor overhaul, various filters, mounts, specialty nuts, and shop rates to pull and replace the engine, I am closer to $142K.  In my case, I also had to overhaul the prop and ended up buying 3 new blades for a cool additional $20K (kill me now).   I should have the final cost in a few weeks but I'm at about $165K all-in with an 8mo turnaround. 

My engine overhaul was done by Twin Engine Aircraft in Newnan, GA and they did a fantastic job managing the overhaul process with all the many overhauled parts that had to be sent out to shops around the country.  Gilmer Aviation in Pell City, AL pulled the engine and put it back on and also did a great job.  

Just curious what your mission is with this plane?  Is it something only the M can do?  Did you consider selling it and replacing it with something else or possibly buying a doner aircraft?  

[daytonabch04]

In 2022, I was quoted $64k for a field overhaul w/ new cylinders.  With installation, new hoses, turbo O/H, I came out around $84k total.  Down time was around 10 months. 

[hazek]

15 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

One thing to remember  . . . if a Bravo was still being sold new today it would be over a million dollars, let's say 1.2.

My plane was at the low end of your used range so it's indeed hard to remember that SEP there are few more capable two people certified travel planes out there that can match it by speed and range in particular. I'm not sure that would put it new at 1.2 but ok maybe. It's also 35 years old which is showing in my case and it probably requires about 200k-250k + 150k for the engine I guess, to give it a complete restoration to near new state.

But more than the price of the engine, I worry about the downtime. My engine is 18 years old factory reman but has only 1250h on it. I suspect I can drive it reliably for at least another 7 years. At which point the first question will be will AVGAS still be available or will the alternative be even suitable for this engine. And with early enough warning signs, can I order a new one before I must stop flying the old one?

But if I get unlucky and for some reason the engine starts eating itself before then, I would seriously hate to lose a WHOLE YEAR of flying to buy a new expensive engine that may not even be able to run on the available fuel in a few years. This is what keeps me up at night (figuratively only).