LANCECASPER Posted November 1 Report Posted November 1 https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/561073 https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=242286 https://www.news10.com/news/saratoga-county/plane-crashes-near-saratoga-county-airport/ https://www.news10.com/news/saratoga-county/authorities-identify-victims-of-deadly-milton-plane-crash/amp/ 7
Ragsf15e Posted November 1 Report Posted November 1 It’ll be interesting to see what’s in the fuel servo and filters if the ntsb takes them apart. 1 1 2
EricJ Posted November 1 Report Posted November 1 5 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: It’ll be interesting to see what’s in the fuel servo and filters if the ntsb takes them apart. I hope there is sufficient analysis done on this by somebody to find out what happened. Very sad. :'( 1
DCarlton Posted November 1 Report Posted November 1 This was Freddbe34 (Right out of the gate)? If so, F'ing horrendous. I thought it was a Mooney when I saw the news cast. 1
LANCECASPER Posted November 1 Author Report Posted November 1 1 hour ago, DCarlton said: This was Freddbe34 (Right out of the gate)? If so, F'ing horrendous. I thought it was a Mooney when I saw the news cast. "Frederick M. Baber, 58, of Port Charlotte FL was killed when the plane he was piloting crashed as it was taking off from the Saratoga County Airport." "A passenger on the plane, Alexander Hoff, 39, of Hollis, New Hampshire, was seriously injured in the crash and remained hospitalized at Albany Medical Center on Saturday, according to the Saratoga County Sheriff's Office." @mike_elliott I figured you would want to know. 2
LANCECASPER Posted November 2 Author Report Posted November 2 Baber remembered as beloved grandfather and passionate flyer, screenwriter Baber is survived by his wife, Janice Baber, two children and two step-children. According to his daughter, Caitlyn Mallo, of Charleston, S.C., the longtime pilot bought a faster plane about a month ago to reduce the amount of time it took to visit Mallo and his grandson, Alexander. She said her father loved seeing him. “It’s just really sad, and you know, I’ve got a 1-year-old who is not going to see his pawpaw anymore,” Mallo said. Mallo told the Times Union she flew with Baber a few years ago and always felt safe. She called his love of flying “more than a hobby” and described him as a passive pilot. On the ground, the Ohio-born man had a passion for screenwriting. He was involved in several independent films, including “Trial by Ordeal,” “Alibi Witness,” and “Tragic.” “He just found it fascinating,” Mallo said. On Saturday, Mallo wrote in a tribute to her father on Facebook about the difficulty of the previous 24 hours. “I know in your last moments you did everything you could,” she wrote. “I wish that I told you I loved you one last time. I wish you could come home. I promise I’m going to be okay. We’re going to be okay. I know you’re going to be watching down on us every day.” She ended the post with: “I’ll see you later alligator, roger that. Over and out.” 3
LANCECASPER Posted November 2 Author Report Posted November 2 This is the injured passenger Alexander Hoff who is in a hospital in Albany, NY:
Echo Posted November 2 Report Posted November 2 We are going to know what really happened. I am thankful for that.
DXB Posted November 2 Report Posted November 2 I got finished reading all of Mr Baber's posts in his recent thread on here regarding the prior engine issue. He sounds like a thoughtful and humble guy who handled the event carefully and intelligently. The sediment in the left tank sounded like the culprit, the approach to addressing it seemed fairly meticulous. It's very sad his efforts and those of his A&P weren't enough to keep him safe. What an awful tragedy. RIP Also f*ck the folks who immediately want to point the finger at him without knowing sh*t. 11
MikeOH Posted November 3 Report Posted November 3 3 hours ago, DXB said: Also f*ck the folks who immediately want to point the finger at him without knowing sh*t. ^^^ THIS ^^^
IvanP Posted November 3 Report Posted November 3 Very sad end for a new Mooney owner. Hopefully we will some day learn what was the cause of this tragic event, the various conjectures published here and elsequere notwithstanding. It is possible that the fuel system issues discussed on MS forum earlier were nt resplved and may have been the cause of this accident, but it is also possible that some other factors were involved. Too early to tell with any reasonable degree of certainty, but celarly the absence of facts will not prevent various "experts" from publishing conjectures and speculations.
carusoam Posted November 3 Report Posted November 3 A YouTube channel I frequent, hoping to NOT see my Mooney friends making the news… The YTer is Keoni, an AARF fire fighter at an airport in Hawaii… prayers for the lost and especially, the injured airman… Best regards, -a- 1
JBlueSkys Posted November 3 Report Posted November 3 So this one hits close to home for me. Earlier this year in my hunt for a Mooney to buy, I saw this one at our local airport and snapped a picture of it. It had sat outside for years, I was told. So was shocked to hear this one was involved in an accident. Prayers for the families involved!!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Utah20Gflyer Posted November 4 Report Posted November 4 What a tragic situation! RIP Fred! He came across as a really nice guy. When I bought my Mooney I took the attitude that until proven otherwise my new plane was trying to kill me. It never did and eventually with some time I decided to give it some additional trust. Not total trust though, I still won’t fly over sustained mountainous terrain and limit my flying at night. Additionally I assumed I might do something stupid as a result of my inexperience and the plane could fairly assume I might be trying to kill it. Both the plane and I are fallible parts of a system. I don’t know what the facts of this accident are, but to me it is a reminder that extreme caution is warranted when a new combination of pilot and airplane come together. An intermittent mechanical problem can be confusing and presents a huge challenge to a new owner. It complicates diagnosis and makes it difficult to confirm the problem is fixed. It’s really a worst case scenario for someone who just bought a plane. It could be the accident wasn’t a result of a mechanical failure, but witness accounts have indicated the engine wasn’t making sound when it impacted the ground. So maybe it was. We will have to see what gets revealed in the investigation. 2
DXB Posted November 4 Report Posted November 4 Fred Baber's story makes me think of my own early days after getting a C model, 10 years ago now. Unlike him, I was an 80 hr newly minted VFR wonder who also knew nothing about aircraft mechanical workings. The plane was flying when I got it but had been underused and had a handful of gremlins. I was nervously hyper-vigilant about these issues and was reading Mike Busch's stuff voraciously. But my ignorance and inexperience at that point made me ineffectual and also drove A&Ps and shop owners crazy. My point is that even if one is thoughtful, cautious, and a rule follower, progressing in aviation means entering situations that are more tenuous than otherwise encountered in routine daily life. I recall the fuel pressure in my C had a habit of dropping to 0 during climbout once in a while, in the days before I had a fuel flow gauge. We chased that issue ad nauseam before concluding in was just vapor lock in the pressure line, in absence of any other viable explanation. That assessment could easily have been wrong and cost me my life - perhaps not unlike what happened to Fred Baber here. 8
mike_elliott Posted November 5 Report Posted November 5 I have been out if pocket training and just saw this thread Rip Fred if anyone can verify Fred’s spouse and mailing address please forward
LANCECASPER Posted November 6 Author Report Posted November 6 I have been out if pocket training and just saw this thread Rip Fred if anyone can verify Fred’s spouse and mailing address please forwardHere’s the address:
mike_elliott Posted November 7 Report Posted November 7 Thanks lance, have been busy working in a m20v. I’ll spend some time to see if he has a widow today
LANCECASPER Posted November 7 Author Report Posted November 7 1 hour ago, mike_elliott said: Thanks lance, have been busy working in a m20v. I’ll spend some time to see if he has a widow today The daughter might be helpful also. https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=24757573850537454&id=100001345445744&rdid=yj9lkZwHO8pr9wWG
LANCECASPER Posted November 7 Author Report Posted November 7 The preliminary report is out. Very sad. Report_ERA26FA027_201941_11_7_2025 5_59_11 PM.pdf On October 31, 2025, about 1035 eastern daylight time, a Mooney M20E, N79338, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident near Ballston Spa, New York. The pilot was fatally injured, and the flight instructor was seriously injured. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight. According to the flight instructor, the pilot had just purchased the airplane and he was going to fly with the pilot to Punta Gorda, Florida, where the pilot lived. The insurance company required the pilot to fly with a flight instructor due to the pilot’s lack of experience in the airplane make and model. The flight instructor stated that he met the pilot for the first time the night before the accident, and they discussed the airplane’s maintenance issues and planned flight route. The flight instructor added that the pilot had test flown the airplane about 1 month prior to the accident flight. He also stated that the airplane’s engine lost power during the pilot’s test flight and that he had landed safely back at the airport at he end of that flight. The flight instructor described that the airplane’s fuel had been contaminated with algae and debris. A local mechanic subsequently repaired the fuel tank and cleaned out the fuel system. On the day of the accident flight, the flight instructor and pilot performed a preflight inspection of the airplane and sampled fuel from the fuel tanks several times before departing. The flight instructor stated that after takeoff and during the initial climb, about 200 ft above ground level, the engine decreased in power from 2,500 rpm to about 1,500 rpm. A few seconds later the engine decreased to about 500 rpm and then lost all power. The flight instructor took over control of the airplane and tried to make a turn back to the airport. When he made a right turn, he realized that the airplane was too low. He then made a slight left turn to avoid a house before the airplane impacted a tree. The accident site was located in a subdivision beside a house. The airplane impacted a tree about 20 ft up, fell to the ground, and came to rest oriented on heading of 232° magnetic. The engine was fractured off its mounts and lying beside the fuselage. The propeller was still attached to the engine and did not display s-bending, leading edge gouging, or chordwise scratching. All major components of the airplane were located at the accident site. A postimpact fire consumed portions of the engine, instrument panel and cockpit. No useful information was obtained from the remaining instrumentation. The right wing root was still attached to the fuselage and about 6 ft of the outboard portion of the wing was located in a tree directly above the main wreckage. The aileron was still attached to the outboard portion of the wing. The right flap remained attached to the wing. The flaps were in the full retracted position. The left wing also remained attached to the fuselage. The wing was consumed by fire, and the left fuel tank was destroyed. The flap was attached to the wing. About 3 ft of the outboard portion of the left wing fractured off the wing and was located about 20 ft from the main wreckage. The left wing had several tree impressions down the leading edge. The cockpit, instrument panel, and engine bay were destroyed by fire. No useful information was obtained. The tail section was attached to the empennage. The left stabilator and elevator were bent up mid-span. The rudder and right elevator were unremarkable. The airplane was further examined after it was recovered from the accident site. Flight control continuity was visually established through torque tubes and fracture surfaces consistent with impact damage. The fuel system from the pickup tubes to the engine fuel injectors was clear of debris and air was passed through all lines and valves. The system exhibited no blockages or other abnormalities. The engine rocker box covers, engine driven fuel pump, magnetos, and the remnants of the airframe baffling were removed. The crankshaft was rotated by applying hand pressure to the propeller, and after the start ring gear and propeller collar were removed, full 360° rotation of the crankshaft was achieved. Compression and suction were observed on all four cylinders, normal valve action was observed on all cylinders, the accessory idler gears were observed rotating, and mechanical continuity was confirmed throughout. The cylinders were examined with a boroscope. Oil pooling was observed in the No. 2 and No. 4 cylinders, and all cylinders were clean with very little deposits on the piston faces or combustion domes. The induction plenum was inspected via borescope and no blockage or obstructions were observed. All four induction tubes remained attached to the engine with various levels of impact-related damage. The exhaust system remained secure to the engine and was partially crushed from impact forces. It was inspected via borescope and no blockage was observed. The fuel flow divider remained secure to the crankcase spine. All four fuel injection lines remained secure to the flow divider, and to their respective fuel injection nozzles. The fuel inlet line remained secure to the flow divider. The flow divider and lines were removed and the flow divider was disassembled. The diaphragm was brittle and destroyed consistent with exposure to extreme heat, and no blockage was observed in the flow divider. Air was blown through the inlet fitting and was observed coming out of all four injection nozzle lines. All four fuel injection nozzles were removed and oil was present in the No. 2 and No. 4 nozzles (oil likely from the orientation of the engine after the accident). The oil was blown out and no contamination was observed in any of the fuel injection nozzles. All four of the nozzles had the restrictor inserts installed. Air was blown through the flow divider inlet fuel line and fuel flow transducer, no obstructions observed. The engine-driven fuel pump remained attached to the engine accessory housing with the fuel inlet and outlines secure to it. The fuel inlet line had been cut during the engine recovery process. The engine driven pump was removed; it did not create inlet suction and outlet pressure when the lever was actuated. The pump was disassembled, the diaphragms were brittle and destroyed consistent with exposure to extreme heat. The fuel pump was filled with engine oil. The left and right magnetos remained secure to the engine accessory housing with the harness caps secure to the magnetos. The magnetos were removed and both drives were found secure via castle nut and cotter pin. The left magneto’s drive was not free to not rotate. While the right magneto’s drive rotated, no spark was observed. Both of the magnetos displayed thermal damage consistent with exposure to the postimpact fire. About 6 gallons of fuel was removed from the right wing fuel tank. The fuel was blue in color and smelled like 100LL fuel. No water or debris was found in the right fuel tank. The left fuel tank was consumed by fire.
takair Posted November 7 Report Posted November 7 The preliminary report is certainly turning this into a bit of a mystery. It seems many of the key components in the fuel system took heat damage, so hard to determine if they were functioning properly. Sounds like the system was clean, but it doesn’t take much in the injectors to clog. I really feel for the victim, the instructor, mechanic, and the familys. 1
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