drmarkflies Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 It was a freak that we caught the problem and only because of a small gasket leak on the turbocharger housing, but the induction side of my new Hartzell turbo was full of oil after sitting for two weeks during its annual. It probably would have failed during the next flight and drained my oil. I have 30 hrs on a zero time TIO-540-AF1B Lycoming in my Bravo (M20M) with a Hartzell turbocharger. Before we installed the new engine, we had to send the turbocharger back to Hartzell because of a Service Bulletin (Lycoming 594, Continental SB10-8 and Cessna SEB11-1) to address possible metal contamination that can cause serious oil leaks and turbo failure. Hartzell did a rebuild and sent it back to us with the case improperly "clocked". We had to realign the case. The turbocharger now has only 30 hours and apparently the same metal contamination that triggered the SB and the rebuild was not resolved, and the oil seal failed. The engine used 1/4 liter of oil on its short flight to get its annual, which would be unusual, but the level was fine when we departed. I'm sure glad my A&P's shop is close. Advice... if you have a Hartzell turbocharger, especially a new one, be sure to inspect it for ANY evidence of oil at the bottom of the housing and pay close attention to even the slightest excess oil consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Good catch! I don't fly Turbo but good warning for everyone with those systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Do you have any idea what calendar date the turbo was overhauled by Hartzell? I'm wondering if you had an old Kelly unit that might have been sitting on a shelf for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmarkflies Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Quote: KSMooniac Do you have any idea what calendar date the turbo was overhauled by Hartzell? I'm wondering if you had an old Kelly unit that might have been sitting on a shelf for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviatoreb Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Quote: drmarkflies It came on a zero-time engine from Lycoming last year. The turbo is a new Hartzell with a -000 serial number... so not a rebuilt Kelly. Hartzell rebuilt this new one Feb 2011 after we sent it to them based on the mandatory SB. Hartzell has some serious quality control problems, and seems to me.... big liability problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Quote: drmarkflies It came on a zero-time engine from Lycoming last year. The turbo is a new Hartzell with a -000 serial number... so not a rebuilt Kelly. Hartzell rebuilt this new one Feb 2011 after we sent it to them based on the mandatory SB. Hartzell has some serious quality control problems, and seems to me.... big liability problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmarkflies Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Quote: KSMooniac It came on a zero-time engine from Lycoming last year. The turbo is a new Hartzell with a -000 serial number... so not a rebuilt Kelly. Hartzell rebuilt this new one Feb 2011 after we sent it to them based on the mandatory SB. Hartzell has some serious quality control problems, and seems to me.... big liability problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Keep a close eye on the new one, and check for drips/leaks after every flight! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igorbly Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I have lost a turbo in my combine and it pumped oil into the exhaust-lost some power and gave a lot of black smoke out the exhaust. I have been losing a turbo out of a tractor for several years now and its symptoms are that I can hear it scream at higher RPMs. Been getting worse in that its taking less and less rpm to get it to scream. Turbos can fail different ways and if you are paying attention you can see it coming and it won't kill the engine it will just be noisy. Hart Parr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedietrich Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Another potential source of excess oil in the turbo and leaking seals is the turbo oil return pump and system. Years ago Duke made some defective return check valves that were improperly assembled. I believe one Mooney was lost and I had the good fortune to have landed with only a couple of quarts of oil left after a short flight. A further note is that there is an SB to insure that the clamps holding the check valves have the heavy duty rubber on them and it is in perfect condition. Wall thickness on the checkvalves is very minimal and can wear through very easily as I found out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlunseth Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 During preflight, rub your finger up inside the exhaust. If grimey/oily you may have a turbo oil leak. If dry (but dirty) you are good to go. Obviously, only do this when the exhaust is cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Welcome, Steve! Glad you joined us over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Quote: KSMooniac Welcome, Steve! Glad you joined us over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 On the Hartzell/Kelly subject, I just got a brand "new" alternator. It's a Kelly unit that was made about a year or 2 ago. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Ick. You might try to find some way to run it on a bench first and make sure it doesn't shell out on you immediately and put your coupler/engine at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 Quote: KSMooniac Ick. You might try to find some way to run it on a bench first and make sure it doesn't shell out on you immediately and put your coupler/engine at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwilkins Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Quote: Parker_Woodruff On the Hartzell/Kelly subject, I just got a brand "new" alternator. It's a Kelly unit that was made about a year or 2 ago. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Quote: jwilkins If you continue to have trouble with the Kelly / Hartzell alternators give Dan at Lasar a call. He has a local shop near Lasar which has been rebuilding alternators for them for many years with good results. It may not be 'off the shelf' but when I needed an alternator for the 231 Dan had one rebuilt and drop shipped to Arizona Air Craftsman in about three days. Both the shop and I thought it was worth the three days to avoid using the available Hartzell rebuilt which may have been a Kelly rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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