Comet Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 20 hours ago, Nukemzzz said: 95db! That’s what my Apple Watch just measured on my trip today when I brought my, new to me, 66’ M20e home on a 4.5hr trip. That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. The current OSHA limit is 85 DB averaged over 8 hrs. For 95 DB, the limit is 4 hrs exposure. The science underling the exposure limits has expanded over the past 30 years. Most headsets will reduce exposure by 10-20 DB, putting it within OSHA limits (which aren’t required if You aren’t being paid). I agree that if you are flying with young ones, reduce their exposure as much as possible. my workplace hearing conservation hasn’t detected any reduction in my hearing in nearly 10 years of flying...of course your watch/phone isn’t a calibrated device... Pilot thoughts only, not an IH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 12:31 AM, Nukemzzz said: 95db! That’s what my Apple Watch just measured on my trip today when I brought my, new to me, 66’ M20e home on a 4.5hr trip. That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. It was unbearably loud even with a head set on. Yes, I know noise cancelling will fix it for me. But that’s not a good solution for a 5yr old and 6month old honestly. No way I can take a toddler up in something that is louder than a jumbo jet engine. Ill have to try and seal it up and put some sound deadening in the spring. There isn’t a door seal currently. So that’s likely not helping. Honestly the noise seems to be low frequency. Some is clearly engine and prop pulsing. I also think there is droning like when one car window is open...hmm...the POH specifically mentions not to open the cabin roof vent scope too much or you’ll have interior buffeting....I've not found those controls yet. Lol The turbo cardinal I flew down to get the Mooney with was at 87db by the way. That’s a huge difference as the dB scale isn’t linear. anyone else taken readings? You are not alone, in my experience Mooneys are louder than many other airframes. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Ok, so update.... On the trip from Florida to Indiana we noticed a change to the engine sound and power over Alabama. Increasing richness made it a run a smoother and we carried on and monitored. I pulled the cowling today and found the muffler blown with the mounting bracket broke and the parts touching the firewall. The inside of the muffler has no remaining baffles (assuming it had any in the first place). This is certainly part of the issue!! 3rd day of ownership was spent largely removing the muffler and sorting how to get it "rebuilt"! Also, I found it does in fact have a door seal, just not the kind I was expecting. The roof vent was closed so that wasn't a factor. I'll report back when the exhaust is fixed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 20 hours ago, Gagarin said: If you think Mooneys are noisy try having a brain scan in an MRI machine. I found that earplugs together with headsets dampen a lot of the noise. Great sign your memory hasn’t been affected! Or... your memory and your memory recall hasn’t been affected... How long did the MRI take...? I remember being very cold by the time the test was over... (old memory, from years ago) Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said: Ok, so update.... On the trip from Florida to Indiana we noticed a change to the engine sound and power over Alabama. Increasing richness made it a run a smoother and we carried on and monitored. I pulled the cowling today and found the muffler blown with the mounting bracket broke and the parts touching the firewall. The inside of the muffler has no remaining baffles (assuming it had any in the first place). This is certainly part of the issue!! 3rd day of ownership was spent largely removing the muffler and sorting how to get it "rebuilt"! Also, I found it does in fact have a door seal, just not the kind I was expecting. The roof vent was closed so that wasn't a factor. I'll report back when the exhaust is fixed. how do you feel about the decision to carry on? In a plane that is new 2U, giving unknown power changes? It may be better to find out what changes occurred, while on the ground before things get worse in the air... A verification of no obvious issues would be a good idea... Finding broken parts, on the ground would be way better than finding them while in the air... CO poisoning is a serious challenge of aged and broken mufflers... fire dangers also become more present... So... your muffler is completely broken internally... your plane’s design got altered from the day it was new... you were right... it wasn’t built that way 50years ago... For info regarding exhaust rebuild sources... use the search, there are a few suppliers. And the alternate source of a PowerFlo... Later in your flying experience... you will probably be able to be more specific about the noises you have experienced... and when you experience them... Our planes are noisy... some don’t even get mufflers... if it got a muffler, and it no longer works... the exhaust noise will increase... Exhaust noise change in flight? Typical sign to land... seek help... find out if the power change is stable or if it could get worse... If the internal parts of the muffler collapse, that is one problem... if they block the flow of exhaust gasses, that is a completely new more significant problem... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagarin Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, carusoam said: Great sign your memory hasn’t been affected! Or... your memory and your memory recall hasn’t been affected... How long did the MRI take...? I remember being very cold by the time the test was over... (old memory, from years ago) Best regards, -a- If you are having the MRI with contrast it takes about 45 minutes. The nurse will offer you a headset to listen to music. They are totally worthless. If you are overweight your body will rub against the tubular chamber increasing the claustrophobic effect and possibly getting jammed inside. The noise is the same as a jack hammer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragsf15e Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 46 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said: Ok, so update.... On the trip from Florida to Indiana we noticed a change to the engine sound and power over Alabama. Increasing richness made it a run a smoother and we carried on and monitored. I pulled the cowling today and found the muffler blown with the mounting bracket broke and the parts touching the firewall. The inside of the muffler has no remaining baffles (assuming it had any in the first place). This is certainly part of the issue!! 3rd day of ownership was spent largely removing the muffler and sorting how to get it "rebuilt"! Also, I found it does in fact have a door seal, just not the kind I was expecting. The roof vent was closed so that wasn't a factor. I'll report back when the exhaust is fixed. Ouch, that doesn’t look good. On the noise front, Ive been flying with our twins since they were a few months old. You can do it safely. I have an M20F, and it’s pretty loud. At first we used foam earplugs cut to size with “baby bubs” headset over top. As soon as they were old enough, 2 1/2?, we went to a junior size headset. You can even get junior size noise canceling if you want. As babies, it’s a struggle to keep hearing protection in/on, but it can be done. With the headset, they want it on to talk (usually over ATC while you’re getting a clearance), or you can plug them into an iPad movie. Thats an easy 2 hour flight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 On 1/1/2020 at 6:08 AM, M20Doc said: You are not alone, in my experience Mooneys are louder than many other airframes. Clarence @M20Doc Curious on the comparative Comanche noise level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 The Comanche 400 has the quietest cabin of all the GA singles. Since it cruises at supersonic speed, it leaves all of the noise behind 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 43 minutes ago, Stephen said: @M20Doc Curious on the comparative Comanche noise level? Both of my E models were quite noisy by comparison to any of the Comanches I’ve flown. Both have minimal firewall insulation, so I’m not sure where the difference comes from. Perhaps all of the fuel it burns muffles the noise! Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeOH Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 56 minutes ago, jetdriven said: The Comanche 400 has the quietest cabin of all the GA singles. Since it cruises at supersonic speed, it leaves all of the noise behind I think you're confusing supersonic FUEL FLOW with TAS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 My car with windows partially open runs around 93-94, so I guess Mooneys aren’t that bad.Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said: My car with windows partially open runs around 93-94, so I guess Mooneys aren’t that bad. Gotta be careful with that, the State Patrol down here takes a dim view of driving so fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0TreeLemur Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) On 12/30/2019 at 11:31 PM, Nukemzzz said: That’s bonkers. It’s criminal. No way it was this loud new...No pilot that owned a Mooney in the sixties would still have hearing in the 70’s. This thread is older than me, and I'm barely older than my Gemini-era Mooney. Read the quote in my signature block below.... Edited January 3, 2020 by 0TreeLemur fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 If you are having the MRI with contrast it takes about 45 minutes. The nurse will offer you a headset to listen to music. They are totally worthless. If you are overweight your body will rub against the tubular chamber increasing the claustrophobic effect and possibly getting jammed inside. The noise is the same as a jack hammer. I can remember your pain. I was in the tube for a full body MRI. I entered not claustrophobic but left it claustrophobic. And the jack hammer description fits it perfectly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 1/1/2020 at 4:17 PM, carusoam said: how do you feel about the decision to carry on? In a plane that is new 2U, giving unknown power changes? It may be better to find out what changes occurred, while on the ground before things get worse in the air... At the time I wasn't sure if I was imagining things (headset on) and the nearest airport was far enough away to gain comfort that it was ok and probably in my head. I was also approaching a front with the temp dropping and adding fuel seemed to make it run smoother. Reasoned that a change in air temp required a reset of mixture and opened the cowl flaps to cool the engine in case the gage was reading low. It was a mixture of “did the engine change sounds?” and “hmm, hadn’t checked the mixture in a while”. I was also aware of the fact that I was listening for something not right which causes a bias. It reminded me of laying in bed at night and thinking I heard a noise downstairs but I’m not sure. If I got up every time I did that I’d loose a lot of sleep. My normal reaction is to prepare for battle and listen for a bit to see if I was imagining things. I wasn’t sure that the sound was real until I saw the exhaust. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skates97 Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Nukemzzz said: At the time I wasn't sure if I was imagining things (headset on) and the nearest airport was far enough away to gain comfort that it was ok and probably in my head. I was also approaching a front with the temp dropping and adding fuel seemed to make it run smoother. Reasoned that a change in air temp required a reset of mixture and opened the cowl flaps to cool the engine in case the gage was reading low. It was a mixture of “did the engine change sounds?” and “hmm, hadn’t checked the mixture in a while”. I was also aware of the fact that I was listening for something not right which causes a bias. It reminded me of laying in bed at night and thinking I heard a noise downstairs but I’m not sure. If I got up every time I did that I’d loose a lot of sleep. My normal reaction is to prepare for battle and listen for a bit to see if I was imagining things. I wasn’t sure that the sound was real until I saw the exhaust. That's a tough spot to be in with a new to you plane. The more hours you get in it the more familiar you will be to where when something does change you will have the "That's different/odd/strange" thoughts. I can't remember if you said but do you have an engine monitor? They are helpful for all sorts of things, one of which is verifying that either nothing changed (you just thought you heard something) or that something actually did change (obvious when something on the monitor is showing something is off). I'm coming up on 350 hours in my plane and there are still times every now and then I "wonder" if I heard something change and study the engine monitor to verify that nothing has changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Up untill a few months ago I thought my E was the noisiest thing I had ever been in. While flying with a buddy he said he could see daylight at the top of the door, after adjusting the top door latch it's like flying a totally different plane. Today I went up with my CFI who had flown in the plane over a year ago and made several comments on how much quieter it was. Even though I thought my door was tight, in flight the top would pull away from the seal, on the ground while in the plane I could push the top out with the door latched. I would suggest looking at the top latch as it made a huge difference...... Your mileage may vary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 If you want to hear strange engine sounds, try flying at night or over any ground with no suitable landing area, your hearing becomes more acute, or maybe your brain imagines sounds...you have to decide...engine monitor becomes your most important instrument if it wasn’t before.Tom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemzzz Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 14 hours ago, Skates97 said: That's a tough spot to be in with a new to you plane. The more hours you get in it the more familiar you will be to where when something does change you will have the "That's different/odd/strange" thoughts. I can't remember if you said but do you have an engine monitor? They are helpful for all sorts of things, one of which is verifying that either nothing changed (you just thought you heard something) or that something actually did change (obvious when something on the monitor is showing something is off). I'm coming up on 350 hours in my plane and there are still times every now and then I "wonder" if I heard something change and study the engine monitor to verify that nothing has changed. Engine monitor is my planned fist upgrade after ADS-B actually for this reason. It has individual exhaust EGT setup but is currently inop. Getting that fixed this week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 This thread came to mind this afternoon as I was burning gas for no particular reason. My iPhone measured 93 in my plane today at 7500 (22/2400). Near the upper edge of the door there was no difference but at the aft lower corner it measure 95.5 so obviously have a leak there. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prior owner Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 iPhone leak finder- brilliant! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Jodice Posted January 6, 2020 Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 I just bought my J in the beginning of December and after 2 weeks I started hearing a ticking noise that would go away as it warmed up. Turned out to be the exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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