Panel Layouts

[blaine beaven]

Hey all, looking for some feedback on my options here, and if I’m missing something obvious. Thanks!

Idea A Nov 26.pdf Idea C Nov 26.pdf Idea B Nov 26.pdf

[Marc_B]

A couple personal thoughts:

1) you can mount the headphone/lemo jacks just underneath your panel and this helps recess your plugs and keep the wires to the sides and low out of the way.

2) I like the GSB15 down low at the bottom so I don't have cords going down my panel or catching on things.

3) given you're going with a GTN650, any reason why you wouldn't want the radios/GMC507/audio panel all in the same stack?  I'd think that they should easily all fit.

4) any thought of mounting the compass where you have ram mount and mount the ram mount below that? or if you mount lemo/headphone jacks below the panel, would the compass then fit above your switches on the left of the GDU460?

5) if you move the GMC507 into the radio stack, and the switches/lights to the previous GMC 507 area in A, then would that give you enough room on the left to put the compass and Aero 553?

6) I take it that your xpndr is remote? I didn't see one on the mockup.

7) Any thought of going with a GTN750Xi instead of the 650, and a GMC35 instead of the PMA450C?

8) I have my Smart Glide button to the right of the radio stack up high.  Figure this keeps sight line high if I ever needed to push the button instead of head completely down.  But small enough it could fit in a lot of places.

 

Below is what I'd probably do...personal preference regarding GMC507 top of stack vs bottom.  Either way works.

At the end of the day there are so many options that you're best bet is find pictures of panels that you like and send messages to those owners to see what works and what they learned if they were doing it all over next time.

[Pinecone]

Sit in your plane, you may find that the center of your body is not aligned with the yoke tube cutout.  I mounted display to be centered on my body.  This put the G-5 to the left.

I like my GMC-507 to the left of the stack near the throttle. Very convenient.  I put the GA button on a small tab below the panel.  Perfect location for my thumb when advancing the throttle.

I am not a fan of the ElectroAire ignition.  Feels very cheap and cheezy.  And quite large for 3 switches.

I agree with the comment about putting your headset jacks below the panel.  

[Marc_B]

+1 about sitting in the aircraft and thinking about ergonomics.  Since you're going with the G3X and from the looks of it will be going with integrated engine monitor, how you set up your screen will move the GDU460 left or right if you try to line up PFD with yoke...this may give you more or less room on the left or right of the screen.

This makes me recall the legacy G500 and the PFD was fixed on the left side which put the knob and buttons offset center of the yoke.  Regardless of having an Aera on the yoke it was awkward reaching between the horns of the yoke with every heading change, baro change, GPSS, etc.  I also previously had the ESI500 (standby -- G5 wasn't approved then) and the engine monitor on the left.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

With my panel upgrade, we changed the engine monitor and G5 to the right and the PFD is centered on the yoke with the G500TXi PFD on the right, MFD on the left.  I've found I VERY MUCH prefer the way my panel is set up now.  Both knobs on the G500TXi are to the outside of the yoke horns, PFD is still aligned with the yoke, having the MFD on the left almost gives you an easy to refer to map/weather/etc while easy to scan beside you.

I found that I like the PFD on the right rather than the left, as I fly with my left hand and this frees up my right hand to adjust baro, change heading, etc with the right.  Previously I'd have to change hands and then adjust with my left hand with legacy G500.

I also really like my current G5 location now as it's easy to scan and high in the visual field; plus it's right between the path between the GMC507--G5--G500 PFD when I'm checking the "score board" to confirm mode changes when adjusting autopilot.  I much prefer the engine monitor data to the right of the G500 as well.  It seems right out in center and easier to use overall.  Also in the scan line going from PFD to radios which means I glance at the temps, oil pressure/temp, etc. more frequently than I did when it was on the left.  My copilot can more easily see all the screens as well.

As mentioned before, where you put the GMC507 (top of radio stack vs bottom) is a personal preference and that's something that ideally you should sit in a cockpit with both and see what seems more ergonomic for you.  Personally, with my set up I like having the GMC507 at the top as it's more lined up with the G5 and scoreboard on the G500, is more "heads up" position, and most button pushes in the radio stack are all around the same location since I have the GTN750 with remote audio so I typically control both radios from the top of the GTN touch screen.

My panel was copied on @donkaye both previous and my current panel.  When I purchased the aircraft it had the Aera 796 installed and I found that having a yoke mount was MUCH faster to move between all the screens faster and easier.  I sold the 796 and upgraded to a 760 when I updated the panel.  I typically have this in traffic screen around the airport, use it for weather investigation, use it for approach chart, use it to change/mute the XM radio on the panel, and it just allows me to have multiple screen views at once.  I find that with remote radio control from the G500/GTN750/GTN650 that I typically don't use the GTN650Xi screen much except for default nav so I always have track/dtrk, eta's, etc. easy to reference.

 

Also regarding TOGA button, make sure you put it in a position that's not easily unintentionally pressed.  I flew with a buddy who had it down low and it accidentally got activated in flight one time (maybe his knee bumped it?).  It was a good WTF moment to practice holding the AP disconnect on the yoke and having me pull the AP breaker while confirming what happened.  I have mine kinda above the throttle that's in a position that I can reach with my thumb with hand on the throttle, but just a slight angle so that it has to be intentional.  As an aside, my shop put the AP breaker on the bottom left breaker position and I collared it with red collar.  Easy to find in dark and easy to tell copilot where to find it.

Smart Glide I put at the top by the ELT.  Seems like those go hand in hand and easy for me to instruct a copilot to locate and press if needed.

 

In general, there are a lot of commonalities between pilot to pilot regarding ergonomics; but some things are setting it up the way YOU want it so that your panel is efficient for how YOU fly.  A little thought and planning goes a long way to make your panel intuitive not just for you but for others.

[Rick Junkin]

Everyone likes their panel design going into an upgrade project. Hours and hours of thought and "what ifs" go in to the layout. I'm no different and I really love how it came out, but there are a few things I would think through differently now that I've had a year to fly behind it. Mine looks quite similar to your plan, accepting the GMC507 location.

I'd put the GMC507 where you have yours. I set my panel up so that everything I needed to touch inflight was accessible with my right hand, and I run the G3X split screen most of the time with the EIS and PFD on the left side. I make all my altimeter, altitude and heading adjustments through the G5 and the GMC507 rather than with the left knobs on the G3X. This is easy with the G5 and GMC507 at the top of the panel, but would be even easier if the 507 was under the G3X.

I would think more about a clean sheet design on the panel, rather than constraining myself with the standard placement for the radio stack and the gear switch/trim indicators. I would look at moving those switches/indicators and the G5 and the strike finder elsewhere so I could have the radio stack right next to the G3X. This makes it easier to access the GTN650 for the flight plan elements and procedures that don't pass through the G3X for IFR ops. Not a huge deal as it isn't difficult to fat finger the GTN650 in the standard location but it would be easier. In my case I would move my GDU 470 from the right side of the panel and put it next to the GDU460. However, a lot of things have to move around to move the G5, so there are trade-offs.

I agree that moving the USB ports to the bottom of the panel is a good idea, unless you're needing to power a portable device on the glareshield.

I have the Electroaire mag/start switch panel and really like it. @Pinecone is right, the mag switches have a light and cheesy feel to them compared to mil spec switches but they work and have a decent positive over-center switch function. Some things to consider with the Electroaire as compared to a keyed ignition switch is engine start requires a new habit pattern to make sure you get the second mag on after start, and at shutdown you need to make sure you add a checklist step to confirm you've turned the mag switches off. "Key on the glareshield" isn't a thing anymore.

I moved my headset jacks from under the panel up onto the panel on the pilot side to get them out of the way. I found that I kept bumping the plugs with my knee in the original recessed location under the panel and that's why I moved them. A better location would be to move them to the side panel in a recessed housing like in the later model Mooneys.

EDIT: Something else we did that required a minor modification to the installation was to put the TOGA button on the left horn of the yoke. We used the CWS button on the King autopilot cluster since CWS isn't available for the certified GFC500. That way both the A/P disconnect button and the GA button are under my left thumb as I approach minimums, and I select the proper one as appropriate.

I also used the remote mount Guardian CO detector and interfaced it with the G3X. I get CO values from 0ppm, rather than from 30ppm with the 553 model, and I also get a CAS message and a tone on the G3X if the sustained CO level goes above 50ppm. The CO level is recorded along with all of the other flight and engine data on the G3X data card. And it's one less thing taking up panel space.

You might consider putting the compass out of the way on the right side of the panel. You would need it if the whole panel went down, but in normal operation you will never look at it. So consider using the valuable panel space areas for other things. Just as an aside, I understand the DC8 cockpit had the compass located on the back wall behind the pilots.

[Aerodon]

You are missing the cutout for the engine controls, but at least you are showing the bend at the lower edge.  

I don't like the Lemo and headset jacks on the panel, put them on a L-bracket attached to the horizontal bent portion.  I prefer the 'recessed' position. but you van turn the L-bracket around and make it flush with the panel.

While you are at it, seriously consider the dual MaxDim instead of the Mooney dimmer circuit - reduces CB count by 1, and much more compact.  Put this and the USB symmetrically around the co pilot control column like the OEM.

I like your vertical arrangement of the switches and annunciators.  Put the smart glide at the top and the go around at the bottom?

I don't like your C/B's on the LHS.

Move the comas and CO2 mount, put the GMC507 at the top.  Put the switches that you use in the traditional location so you can use your right hand to turn things on an off.

I would stick with clock (MD93) and smaller CO2 monitor - located in CB panel?

Can the GNC355 and GTX650 interface directly to the G5 indicator without the GAD29 box?  I would seriously consider the GI-275 instead.  

Put the ELT switch where the GSB15 is.

I think the WX8 is next to useless in real weather.  I have a WX10A for you, and you can find a WX1000 quite easily.  Maybe even a WX500.  Modern 'data' allows you to stay well away from weather, so a Stormscope is less important.  But put something nicer in if you know there are times you will want to fly closer to the weather.

I like the way you have lined up the top of the radios with the GDU.  If you can put the GMC507 at the top, maybe change to an SL30 or GTR215 to get the bottom to line up too?

 

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pinecone]

I don't use the knobs on the G3X.  I do baro changes on the G-5.  Heading on the GMC-507.  I do have to look down, but the heading numbers are down in the lower half of the screen.  Unlike airliners where the knobs and readouts are both up high.

I run EIS on left and PFD in middle (when split screen).  I also raised my G3X as high as it would go, along with the G-5. 

I grouped the switches by function.  Ignition and Start together.  Master, Alt1, Alt2, Avionics together.  Pitot Heat and Prop Heat.  Forward facing lights on one row, all around lights in another row.

For the TOGA button, a friend 3D printed a cup shaped guard to prevent accidental activation.  The button is right where my thumb will hit it, IF I extend my thumb when advancing the throttle

Yes, everyone thinks theirs is the best.  I am explaining my thoughts to help others make choices that work best for them.

 

 

[EricJ]

12 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I don't use the knobs on the G3X.  I do baro changes on the G-5.  Heading on the GMC-507.  I do have to look down, but the heading numbers are down in the lower half of the screen.  Unlike airliners where the knobs and readouts are both up high.

I run EIS on left and PFD in middle (when split screen).  I also raised my G3X as high as it would go, along with the G-5. 

I grouped the switches by function.  Ignition and Start together.  Master, Alt1, Alt2, Avionics together.  Pitot Heat and Prop Heat.  Forward facing lights on one row, all around lights in another row.

For the TOGA button, a friend 3D printed a cup shaped guard to prevent accidental activation.  The button is right where my thumb will hit it, IF I extend my thumb when advancing the throttle

Yes, everyone thinks theirs is the best.  I am explaining my thoughts to help others make choices that work best for them.

 

 

It's just like that on the G1000 C182s from the factory, which makes a lot of sense.   It's unlikely to be inadvertently hit or hit without power being applied, unless intentionally done so.    Seems like a good way to do it to me.