Altitude Hold

[Van Lanier]

I'm looking for an STEC ALT Hold (only) for my 1962 M20C.  Does anyone know where I might find this unit:  http://www.premieravionics.net/pages/s-tec/30alt.html  The vendor listed in the ad is no longer a Genesis/STEC dealer.  

Many thanks. 

[bcg]

Try Pippen York in Fredericksburg. They're an S-Tec dealer and know them well.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[1980Mooney]

6 hours ago, Van Lanier said:

I'm looking for an STEC ALT Hold (only) for my 1962 M20C.  Does anyone know where I might find this unit:  http://www.premieravionics.net/pages/s-tec/30alt.html  The vendor listed in the ad is no longer a Genesis/STEC dealer.  

Many thanks. 

I think you are out of luck. Genesis Aerosystems   notified its dealers in mid-2022 that it would discontinue all analog S-TEC autopilots on January 1, 2023.  Apparently there wasn’t any press release to the pilot/owner community.  They told dealers that they would support the legacy analog systems until parts ran out 

Sarasota shows the S-TEC 30 Altitude Hold as “discontinued”.  

https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/system-30-alt?srsltid=AfmBOor-L7o3ImTILWU1XwYS2C9AFGFbOSQeOulkSxIz3CMHkWcWm3g9

https://www.facebook.com/GenesysAerosystems/posts/the-s-tec-system-203030alt-analog-autopilots-will-be-out-of-production-starting-/3456005478019183/

http://shop.avionics.co.nz/system20-50#container

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=210104

 

Edited November 23 by 1980Mooney

[bcg]

If you can find a used one, S-Tec will issue a new STC for your plane.  You'll have to send it to them, they'll overhaul it and charge you about what it costs to buy it new but, if you were looking to buy new anyway it may be worth the expense to you.  There are usually a few on eBay.

 

I had my S-Tec 50 computer repaired recently and they made me send it back through a dealer, they don't like dealing with the end users.  I'm sure it'll be the same with moving an STC.  Greg at Pippen York is familiar with the process, he's been a huge help to me getting my altitude hold functional again in my airplane. 

[bigmo]

Huge risk in going the used STC route. STEC is…ummm…not super customer focused. It’s been a few years but they were charging $2k just for the STC, and that data point was like 5 years ago. 
 

[Flyler]

I know of a certain F model with an STEC20 with altitude hold that may appear on the scrap market soon.  I'm sure it'll take a few months though. I wonder if we can tag one of the scrap vultures and follow it around...

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, bigmo said:

Huge risk in going the used STC route. STEC is…ummm…not super customer focused. It’s been a few years but they were charging $2k just for the STC, and that data point was like 5 years ago. 
 

I've heard recently that they stopped selling the STC on used S-Tec autopilots.

[TaildraggerPilot]

On eeeeeeeeebay now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186801062322?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GVx6n2AETrO&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CEVi502NSO-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235362147298?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=B_crCP8aTgC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CEVi502NSO-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276417668373?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RiRghz_qQ1m&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CEVi502NSO-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited November 23 by Taildraggerpilot

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Taildraggerpilot said:

On eeeeeeeeebay now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186801062322?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=GVx6n2AETrO&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CEVi502NSO-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/235362147298?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=B_crCP8aTgC&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CEVi502NSO-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276417668373?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RiRghz_qQ1m&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=CEVi502NSO-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

The first item is located in France.  

[1980Mooney]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I've heard recently that they stopped selling the STC on used S-Tec autopilots.

Moog, Inc., a publicly traded company, bought Genesys Aerosystems (which owned S-TEC) at the beginning of 2021. Most of Moog’s business is in Commercial and Defense aircraft, Space & Defense and some Industrial & Medical. They sell to DOD, Government and commercial manufacturers.
 

This S-TEC bit which came with the Genesys purchase. I think it is the only business they have that sells to GA owners (the Chelton general aviation avionics business in Genesys collapsed in2007). 
 

It’s pretty clear that they are housecleaning and have no longterm commitment to the business. And clearly the Moog Corp attorneys don’t want the new and continued liability of issuing new STC’s on used equipment of questionable quality (and mostly equipment that the no longer sell and will only support until parts run out)
 

[TaildraggerPilot]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

The first item is located in France.  

Yes, it sure is, but if you are looking for specific parts for a legacy S-Tec, you might need to look everywhere. 

[Van Lanier]

Gents,

Many thanks for the information and suggestions.  They are very helpful.  My 1962 M20C has an antique ARC (factory installed) that still works just fine and has been modified to track GPS.  I'm hoping to add altitude hold as 3-hour legs in IMC are getting tiresome without it.  I have priced a full GFC500 with GI-295s, etc, but see no need to have the world's most expensive little Mooney!  
Van
 

 

[takair]

27 minutes ago, Van Lanier said:

Gents,

Many thanks for the information and suggestions.  They are very helpful.  My 1962 M20C has an antique ARC (factory installed) that still works just fine and has been modified to track GPS.  I'm hoping to add altitude hold as 3-hour legs in IMC are getting tiresome without it.  I have priced a full GFC500 with GI-295s, etc, but see no need to have the world's most expensive little Mooney!  
Van
 

 

One option is to add a Brittain dynertial and altitude hold. It is a bit of a scavenger hunt, but can be done.  The STC can still be acquired.  I added it to my plane a few years ago and am happy with it.  I recently picked up a number of partial systems (less Mooney servos) that I will go through to insure operation and offer for sale.  The holy grail is the servos, which are somewhat uniquely sized and are hard to come by. 

[Shiroyuki]

On 11/22/2024 at 10:23 PM, 1980Mooney said:

I think you are out of luck. Genesis Aerosystems   notified its dealers in mid-2022 that it would discontinue all analog S-TEC autopilots on January 1, 2023.  Apparently there wasn’t any press release to the pilot/owner community.  They told dealers that they would support the legacy analog systems until parts ran out 

Sarasota shows the S-TEC 30 Altitude Hold as “discontinued”.  

https://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/system-30-alt?srsltid=AfmBOor-L7o3ImTILWU1XwYS2C9AFGFbOSQeOulkSxIz3CMHkWcWm3g9

https://www.facebook.com/GenesysAerosystems/posts/the-s-tec-system-203030alt-analog-autopilots-will-be-out-of-production-starting-/3456005478019183/

http://shop.avionics.co.nz/system20-50#container

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=210104

 

Does that mean we have no stec ap to pick? Even the 55x is analog rate based if I'm remembering it correctly. The new 3100 isn't STC'd for mooney.

This is such a shame as I believe all S-tec autopilot uses the same servo, it would save a lot of installation cost if I can go from stec 30 with alt hold to stec 55x, or 3100 if it is stc'd, comparing to installing a whole new system of GFC500...

[1980Mooney]

3 hours ago, Shiroyuki said:

Does that mean we have no stec ap to pick? Even the 55x is analog rate based if I'm remembering it correctly. The new 3100 isn't STC'd for mooney.

This is such a shame as I believe all S-tec autopilot uses the same servo, it would save a lot of installation cost if I can go from stec 30 with alt hold to stec 55x, or 3100 if it is stc'd, comparing to installing a whole new system of GFC500...

Going forward they provide STC support for installation in a Mooney with only the 55x  

https://genesys-aerosystems.com/stc-directory/

The last known published price list for a conversion kit from a 30 to a 55x was $13,000.  But that was in 2021 just as Moog bought the company and before they discontinued most of the product line in 2022.  There aren’t many posting about 55x upgrades now. Like everything else in aviation it is probably a lot higher now. 

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages/attachment.php?attachmentid=2729&d=1659355672

That said, the 55x was developed last century and introduced in 2000 back when the company was called Meggitt S-TEC. I would suspect that it is on borrowed time given Moog’s apparent lack of interest in GA autopilots. 
 

 

Edited November 25 by 1980Mooney

[Echo]

On 11/23/2024 at 5:20 PM, takair said:

One option is to add a Brittain dynertial and altitude hold. It is a bit of a scavenger hunt, but can be done.  The STC can still be acquired.  I added it to my plane a few years ago and am happy with it.  I recently picked up a number of partial systems (less Mooney servos) that I will go through to insure operation and offer for sale.  The holy grail is the servos, which are somewhat uniquely sized and are hard to come by. 

What is the part number on the servos?

[Echo]

What parts do you need in addition to these two?

[takair]

7 hours ago, Echo said:

What parts do you need in addition to these two?

The servos(I’ll have to check part numbers), an alt hold can which I have, and brackets for the servos. They can likely be fabricated. Oh and lots of tubing.  

[takair]

The servo number is BI-706, pn 20413-6-0. I think there is also another one, but it gets a little confusing. Picture attached is the aft servo (large one) and the one bracket that is required. 

[Echo]

24 minutes ago, takair said:

The servo number is BI-706, pn 20413-6-0. I think there is also another one, but it gets a little confusing. Picture attached is the aft servo (large one) and the one bracket that is required. 

I have two of these sevos in good condition.  My plane has servos from old auto pilot (inop and removed) in the tailcone.  Existing wing leveler is fully functional.  Interested in above components if you have them.  Scott

[takair]

11 hours ago, Echo said:

I have two of these sevos in good condition.  My plane has servos from old auto pilot (inop and removed) in the tailcone.  Existing wing leveler is fully functional.  Interested in above components if you have them.  Scott

Hi Scott…can you IM me your email?  Are you saying you had the altitude hold installed but was removed?

[Shiroyuki]

On 11/24/2024 at 9:28 PM, 1980Mooney said:

Going forward they provide STC support for installation in a Mooney with only the 55x  

https://genesys-aerosystems.com/stc-directory/

The last known published price list for a conversion kit from a 30 to a 55x was $13,000.  But that was in 2021 just as Moog bought the company and before they discontinued most of the product line in 2022.  There aren’t many posting about 55x upgrades now. Like everything else in aviation it is probably a lot higher now. 

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages/attachment.php?attachmentid=2729&d=1659355672

That said, the 55x was developed last century and introduced in 2000 back when the company was called Meggitt S-TEC. I would suspect that it is on borrowed time given Moog’s apparent lack of interest in GA autopilots. 
 

 

When I recently had dual Garmin G5 installed I asked my avionic shop about this question, they say genesys will want 13k ish USD for the units and hardware, so in the ballpark of what you mentioned. They are a genesys dealer so I'm sure they know what they are talking about. Beyond that, they also says labour is about 40-60 hours, so 20k all in, which isn't all that cheap.

I also wonder how well does a 55x work though, is it a siginificant difference from GFC500...

[catchman86]

I'm in a similar situation with a STEC 40 autopilot with no altitude hold capability. The GFC 500 quote I received was about $20k installed with electric trim but no yaw damper from a Cincinnati area shop. I'd sooner go for the GFC 500 since I'd get new servos, better course capture, track and IAS modes, and eliminate my analog turn coordinator currently needed for my STEC. 

 

[cliffy]

On the Brittian system a big issue is the alt hold  "eyeball"   There are 2 different ones - a black plastic housing and a brass housing.

The eyeball line needs to be exactly in the middle of the window  to be a good "used" unit.

IIRC the brass eyeball housing is the better one but check with Brittian. 

Remember it only works if you still have your vacuum pump installed.