M20J Inner Gear Doors

[INA201]

Just an update from my end. I ordered the doors from Dan at Lasar and he recommended not buying the wheel well liners as they weren't all that effective according to him.  Dan recommended having someone with Mooney experience install and adjust the gear/doors.  He recommended Causey aviation in NC.  Anyone have experience there?  I'm based at KSPA so Causey would be convenient but if anyone thinks differently please let me know.   My current A&P at KSPA is very good as well.  Thanks again everyone for your experience and insight.

[jetdriven]

I put in the wheel well liners.  Can't tell for speed but they seem to reduce noise a little.  If anything it keeps rats out 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, INA201 said:

Just an update from my end. I ordered the doors from Dan at Lasar and he recommended not buying the wheel well liners as they weren't all that effective according to him.  Dan recommended having someone with Mooney experience install and adjust the gear/doors.  He recommended Causey aviation in NC.  Anyone have experience there?  I'm based at KSPA so Causey would be convenient but if anyone thinks differently please let me know.   My current A&P at KSPA is very good as well.  Thanks again everyone for your experience and insight.

If you talking about installing the standard Mooney lower door made of aluminum, be sure your shock discs are in good condition as they control gear position while retracted and be sure the gear is rigged correctly, retracted height into the wells is important to door fit and adjustment.

Clarence

[INA201]

M20Doc, they are the aluminum doors.  If your disks are a little worn but within specs can adjustments be made to make it fit tight? Thanks for the input I hadn't considered the disks in the equation.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, INA201 said:

M20Doc, they are the aluminum doors.  If your disks are a little worn but within specs can adjustments be made to make it fit tight? Thanks for the input I hadn't considered the disks in the equation.  

It should not be a problem as long as there is no play in the discs when the is retracted.

Clarence

[INA201]

I did a four way GPS run @4000 pretty much standard temperature running 25 25 and got an average speed of 151knots without the inner gear doors.  Fuel burn was 11.8 running 100 rich of peak.  I ran on one tank for the test run  an included turns in the timing to get the fuel flow.  I'll run it again to see what I get not including the turns since fuel flow is already calculated.  Planning to record CHTs EGTs OAT next round at 5000 running 25 25 and 100 rich of peak and see what happens.  Any other advice to get good numbers?  Hopefully the doors will be installed in January and we can see if there is some improvement.  I'll go ahead and wash up the plane and belly some too prior to the next round.  Man this is fun!  

[carusoam]

INA,

Nice details.

How/why did you select 4,000'?  Not 3,500' or 4,500' for typical VFR flight? Or 7500'?

7,500' is an altitude where power available is high, and air resistance is low.   Sort of an 'optimum' place for NA planes to operate.

Best regards,

-a-

[pwhicks]

I have 2 brand new brackets (U shaped) that I purchased from Mooney (via Don Maxwell) several months ago.  Turns out I didn't need them and they are sitting in the hangar awaiting a new home.

PM me if you are interested.  

[INA201]

Carusoam, I did 4,000 to maintain agl under 3,000 feet so as not to have to follow the regs requiring odd 500s east and even 500s west altitudes.  I didn't think you could just fly around all different headings over 3,000 agl in level flight.  Wouldn't I have to change altitude for the different headings over 3,000 agl or are the vfr cruising altitudes just recommended?  Oops thread drift maybe.

Thanks

[Hank]

Ina, I'd think for the 2-3 minutes per leg that it wouldn't make much of a difference. Do a 3-leg run and only one will be going "the wrong way" for shorter exposure. Using the four cardinal directions does noIt really increase accuracy, although it does make the math easier. Somewhere here is a calculator (spreadsheet) that will crunch the 3-leg numbers for you.

thanks for doing the tests, copying data and reporting. I just did some Time to Climb tests, and boy, it's difficult maintaining accurate heading and speed while copying multiple numbers every 1000' while climbing out of a towered field on an IFR flight plan (even in CAVU weather).

[carusoam]

That is why I asked...

At 4k' around here you would be flying at an IFR cruising altitude...

Since you are not cruising, it would be challenging to follow cruising guidelines...

My flight school, the one I attended, had defined 'practice areas' that were good for these activities.

The highlight of the practice area was there was nobody around.  They were centered away from VORs because that was where the traffic was.  A good amount of traffic is still on the Victor Airways.

I Am just a PP.

Best regards,

-a- 

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

I think your fine at any altitude as long as you are away from airways.

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[INA201]

I took Carusoam's advice and ran four ways today at 7500 feet.  Density altitude was 9301, MP 22.3, 2500rpm, CHTs 380s except 400(cylinder 4), egt hottest 1391, somewhere in the 25-50 rich of peak range I think, fuel burn 9.74 per hour, and OAT was 15.6C.  I haven't mastered the JPI-700 yet so please forgive my leaning.  Average speed was 152.5 knots for this run today.  I'm thinking the plane was set up for 65-66% power based on settings, fuel flow and interpolating the POH.  I had to crack the cowl flaps a couple times to drop CHTs as well.   Anyway, hopefully this is decent data for a preinnergear gear door installarama.  If I need more data please let me know, oh well then. I'll have to go up again! Oh, I've developed this new skipping bouncing landing technique after 3 months of excellent landings since owning the plane too.  Any thoughts or opinions are greatly appreciated......to be continued.

[Steve Dawson]

I think there's something wrong with that type of fuel flow. Are you sure your K factor is right? What kind of fuel flow meter do you have? 

[INA201]

I don't have fuel flow but once leveled off I switched tanks, set the timer, and switched back after running the tests.  I maintained the same settings while timing on the one tank. The fuel flow part i think is accurate but I'm not so sure about my leaning the engine.  What are your thoughts Steve on the fuel flow? Thanks

[Steve Dawson]

It's been a couple of years since I did a speed check with mine however I believe that at 7K feet I was running just around 10GPH, 2500 RPM and around 24" (WOT). All my temperatures were well within limits and below yours. My 4 way and 3 way speeds were the same at 158.5 KTAS. I had done some tweaking on the gear doors and roughly 4 years ago Clarence had shimmed the engine up. I had the step removed but have since reinstalled it and haven't noticed much difference.

I have gotten as high as 167KTAS, WOT ROP and 2650RPM at a lower altitude and colder day.  My temperatures have never been that high either when the OAT is at standard.

When is the last time you had your rigging checked and can you totalize (sp) your fuel flow to confirm the proper K factor? I'd have someone you trust and knows these engines and planes check out your engine. Another thought is to send your information to Savvy.  They are good. I had a slight vibration while cruising once and sent them the flight file and they pined it down to a loose baffle.

Here is a picture I took while flying back from Florida last year. I can't remember what the fuel flow was nor the engine temps.

[INA201]

Steve, thanks for the response.  Temperature when I flew was pretty high, 15.7c at 7500.  Do you think my MP was only 22.3 because density altitude was so high that day at 9300 feet for that altitude?  I had what I think are actual hourly fuel numbers because I ran that one tank for 30 minutes while at the altitude and settings above then filled up afterwords to check it.  I guess I will do it again and dial in the JPI to make sure I'm at the correct ROP setting.  Should fuel flow be less or more than 9.74 at 22.3 2500?

[carusoam]

Go to the JPI site to get their manual.  There is a plethora of settings you may prefer including if your are leaning ROP vs LOP.

 

like this one?   https://www.jpinstruments.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/PG-EDM-800-Rev-W.pdf

 

Best regards,

-a-

[INA201]

Thanks Carusoam, wilco.  Just received the gear doors. Should I get them painted prior to installing them? 

 

[PTK]

Does anyone have any pics of wheel well liners installed? 

Also curious if they do anything. Seems cost to be in the 500$ range when all said and done for a contemptibly small 1mph according to Lasar!

 

[Alan Fox]

Wheel well liners do nothing except protect the birds during annual , With them in you cant get to a lot of the wheel well to inspect , Of all the mods I did , I think this is the dumbest.....If you have inner gear doors , than these do absolutely nothing....

[cnoe]

Thanks Carusoam, wilco.  Just received the gear doors. Should I get them painted prior to installing them? 

 

Are those new, or rebuilt. They look great!

If you don't mind... how much did they set you back? I could use new ones myself. I hope you never get a "moving flat tire".

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[INA201]

Will a flat knock them out?, Ouch.... They are factory new bought through Lasar and were $745.20 each.  I'm impressed with the quality of these as well, looks like really good craftsmanship.  Fortunately the mounting brackets etc. are already on the plane or that sets you back another few $$$.  I did ask about the wheel well liners and Dan at Lasar said not to bother with them that it wasn't worth putting them on, so I went with their advice on that one.  

[cnoe]

Will a flat knock them out?, Ouch.... They are factory new bought through Lasar and were $745.20 each.  I'm impressed with the quality of these as well, looks like really good craftsmanship.  Fortunately the mounting brackets etc. are already on the plane or that sets you back another few $$$.  I did ask about the wheel well liners and Dan at Lasar said not to bother with them that it wasn't worth putting them on, so I went with their advice on that one.  

These days that's not a bad deal. I see beat up ones on Ebay occasionally for $500+. I've been too scared to price them since mine are certainly serviceable.

And yes, a main gear blowout will often put the edge down onto the pavement. That's one reason so many of them exhibit repairs. Been there, done that, and is the reason I replaced my Aero Classic Leak Guard tubes with Michelin AirStops.

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[carusoam]

Regarding the paint question...

Painting the parts separated from the air frame is usually a good way to get an even distribution of paint on the new surfaces and keeps the overspray from settling on the other surfaces...

preparation, alodyne/primer, paint.

Followed with Who is going to look that closely?

Best regards,

-a-