nels Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Anybody know anything about an Aero Mods one piece belly? Sopposidly one size fits all or I should say the long size is designed to be trimmed for the short body. How hard to install and what performance perks? Any pros or cons to this manufacturer? It will be going on a '66 E model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmuff Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I saw that on barnstormers as well and was wondering the same thing. I did see on LASAR's website their 1 piece belly increases 6mph at a cost of 70 hours of labor!! The equipment could be free and to me it still isn't worth that money!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I do owner-assisted annuals, and always thought removing the one-piece belly was a chore. Undo 52 screws, drop that large panel a few inches, unplug the antenna then remove the panel. THEN I saw another plane with the original belly, and decided it's not that bad after all. Would I spend the money for airspeed? Most likely not. But there are other benefits, too, especially if you get one of the newer ones with dzus connectors instead of #8 screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaV8or Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I think the claim of a speed increase is complete bull. The one piece belly is for conveniance only. There is also a one piece out there, I don't know which brand, that adds protection to save the gear actuator on electric gear planes in the event of a gear up. I would not buy a one piece hoping to make my plane faster. I'd like one, but the price will have to come down first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolter Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Quote: DaV8or I think the claim of a speed increase is complete bull. The one piece belly is for conveniance only. There is also a one piece out there, I don't know which brand, that adds protection to save the gear actuator on electric gear planes in the event of a gear up. I would not buy a one piece hoping to make my plane faster. I'd like one, but the price will have to come down first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangemtl Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 From what I have read it appears you can expect 6 mph increase on the long body and about half that on the short. I don't know if I believe either. I would expect something as it must be somewhat cleaner, especially if the antennas no longer hang out in the breeze. I need to replace several skins on the belly due to the gear collapse so I figured the cost of the materials are going to be more with the one piece but the labor savings over the alumunum for the install might be worthwhile. Also wondering if anyone ever heard of AERO MOD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangemtl Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Guess I need to sign in again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Sorry orangmtl, the last couple posts were mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Check into the carbon-fiber belly that Bill Wheat had a hand in bringing out recently. Lighter weight, simple to use [1/4 turn dzus instead of screws], but I don't know about installation labor. It's advertised in the MAPA Log, but I don't remember the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 ON our belly panels there are plenty of screws, but only a Comant CI-105 transponder antenna and a Comant CI-102 marker beacon antenna. BOth of these are super common. The CI-105 has a drag force of .09 LB at 250 MPH, while the CI-102 has .22 LB of drag, at 250 MPH. Ball on a stick transponder antennas have .41 LB of drag. I dont think you could measure the drag from hiding these antennas internally. I feel we gained perhaps 3/4 knot at absolute full race speed (~193 MPH) by swapping two ball-stick transponder antennas to CI-105 antennas. We shed ~.75 LB of drag at that speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 nels, is this an insurance repair, or something you are doing on your own? Most of the vintage Mooneys with 1-pc bellies are as a result of gear collapse/gear-up landing. The economics usually work out about the same as restoring it to the original (hundreds of screws!) configuration vs. converting it to a 1-pc composite belly (10's of screws) as far as I understand it, but then you'll enjoy the benefits of the 1-pc belly afterwards. Bill Wheat's carbon fiber belly is what I want for my J someday because it does not incur a weight penalty. You can't hid antennae inside it, though, like the fiberglass kits, but I'd rather have the <1 lb of drag and an extra 10-15 lbs of useful load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Scott, Its an insurance job that I bought. Guys at the airport said it slid about three ft after the gear collapsed. But, it did bang up the belly so I sorta figured that the cost will be similar to replace in alum or go to the one piece. I don't know what the weight penalty will be but hopefully it will be a little slicker in the air and maybe even reduce cabin noise a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piperpainter Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: Hank I do owner-assisted annuals, and always thought removing the one-piece belly was a chore. Undo 52 screws, drop that large panel a few inches, unplug the antenna then remove the panel. THEN I saw another plane with the original belly, and decided it's not that bad after all. Would I spend the money for airspeed? Most likely not. But there are other benefits, too, especially if you get one of the newer ones with dzus connectors instead of #8 screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Well, I'd certainly recommend going for the 1-pc belly. The carbon fiber one developed by Bill Wheat and Dugosh is more expensive, especially comapred to a barnstormers 2nd-hand sale, so figure out how much the useful load difference is worth to you. Either way, it is a huge improvement over the stock configuration! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Where does it say extra 10-15 LB useful load? Those aluminum belly panels maybe weigh 5 LB total. Quote: KSMooniac nels, is this an insurance repair, or something you are doing on your own? Most of the vintage Mooneys with 1-pc bellies are as a result of gear collapse/gear-up landing. The economics usually work out about the same as restoring it to the original (hundreds of screws!) configuration vs. converting it to a 1-pc composite belly (10's of screws) as far as I understand it, but then you'll enjoy the benefits of the 1-pc belly afterwards. Bill Wheat's carbon fiber belly is what I want for my J someday because it does not incur a weight penalty. You can't hid antennae inside it, though, like the fiberglass kits, but I'd rather have the <1 lb of drag and an extra 10-15 lbs of useful load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Byron, I think Scott is comparing carbon fiber to fiberglass not the original aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 So, does the fiberglass belly add 10-15 pounds of weight to a Mooney? For all the uproar over the 33 lbs a set of fuel bladders costs you, the ranch is suprisingly quiet about a 7,000$ fiberglass belly mod which adds between zero and 4 knots, and adds 15 lbs of weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Yes, my fiberglas belly is quite thick and heavy. I have to slide something under the plane to support it within a few inches as I remove the last screws from both ends, then I can reach inside and undo the antenna wire. Drag it out, carry it out of the way, and start the clean & wax process. It's easily 20-25 pounds or so. I'm jealous of you folks with camlocks! Although 48 #10x3/4 acrews and 5 #8X3/4 screws around teh front gear is still an improvement over the mulitple original panels that I have never had to deal with. Byron, there's probably less uproar than over bladder weight because it is often done "free" during repairs, and it does not create additional problems that may occur with bladders [wrinkles, leaks between cells, $2000 caps, new holes cut into the wing, etc.]. The one-piece installation does create benefits besides [maybe] a knot or two--it's easy and fast to remove, so you are more likely to do PM work, mechanic charges are reduced if you aren't removing the bely yourself, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: Hank ......problems that may occur with bladders [wrinkles, leaks between cells, $2000 caps, new holes cut into the wing, etc.]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: JimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: JimR You just like to do a lot of screwing, Jim I can drop my stock one piece belly panel in five minutes, and it is about five pounds at most! I don't believe the CF one buys you anything for the additional cost. Jim has, and supports, condoms in his wings, so it's no wonder he likes lots of tiny belly panels, three bladed props, ten thousand hour airframes, and damage history.....but not LOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottfromiowa Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: jetdriven Its been almost a year and nobody has come forward to tell the tale of a leaky bladder or a wrinkle. So, if nobody has ever had the issue happen, is it still an issue?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nels Posted April 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: Hank Yes, my fiberglas belly is quite thick and heavy. I have to slide something under the plane to support it within a few inches as I remove the last screws from both ends, then I can reach inside and undo the antenna wire. Drag it out, carry it out of the way, and start the clean & wax process. It's easily 20-25 pounds or so. 20 to 25#'s is awfully heavy. Does yours have the skid protection in it in the event of a gear collapse? I assume it goes on your M20C? If so, the J model would weigh significantly more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 It's pretty smooth except for one blade-style antenna sticking out. Cleans and waxes easily. I'm just guessing at the weight, annual is still months away; it's just heavy and awkward enough that I don't want to try to hold it up while reaching in to unplug the antenna lead. Maybe it's only 15 pounds, but at ~3' wide and easily 8' long, holding it up is not a one-hand job. Yes, the one-piece belly and the 3-blade came on my C, dating to four years before my purchase. Yes, she has been thoroughly and nicely repaired after the "incident." [incidents and Accidents each have their own database, a surprise to me. My plane doesn't show up on the NTSB database, but the FAA has an Incident database I found somewhere once, and she's listed there, matching the stories I have been told before and after purchase.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Quote: nels Byron, I think Scott is comparing carbon fiber to fiberglass not the original aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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