Cabo San Lucas

[Joe Zuffoletto]

OK, just got my quote back from this year. Here is the comparison to 2013; all figures US dollars:

 

February, 2015

Landing: $4.29

Embarking/Disembarking: $2

Parking: $10.56/day

Boarding Passenger: $31

Handling: $130

DSM (Immigration Departing Fee): $36.30

DNI (Immigration Arriving Fee): $30.82

DGAC: $133.81

 

March, 2013:

Landing: $5

Embarking/Disembarking: $2.34

Parking: $12.48/day

Boarding Passenger: $26

Handling: $83.33

DSM (Immigration Departing Fee): $6.40

DNI (Immigration Arriving Fee): $31.96

DGAC: $76.05

 

Note that DSM, DNI and DGAC are waived if you have purchased a Multiple Entry Permit for the year. I don't know how much those cost this year.

 

I asked why the handling fee jumped so much but got the typical Mexican non-response: "Some fees have increased since 2013." No duh.

 

They're still giving free pictures. My most recent visit one of them was even framed.

[kortopates]

The "DGAC" quoted fee looks suspiciously close to the DGAC's Multi-entry fee which is again 1441 pesos this year and at the current very favorable exchange rate it should come out to $100 US if you pay in pesos, but of course you'll never do that good paying in dollars as they'll always exchange at a more favorable rate to them.

 

You still have to pay immigration fees each time you enter, regardless, the multi-entry fee waives nothing officially, IF you check the Crew box on the immigration form rather than Tourista and (only if you aren't staying more than 7 or 10 days) then the pilot will only pay a very small immigration fee (~60 pesos). Pax will normally pay a 366 pesos immigration fee at arrival (entering the country) and then a small fee at departure (leaving the country) at around 5 US.

 

At the great exchange rates going on right now, gas in Mexico is a great deal at just over $3.52/gal US based on a 14.8 exchange  i.e. pay in pesos! (BTW, its always a challenge to accurately post fuel prices since whether you buy 1 gal or 100 gals you always pay their Wing tax of ~$10US on top of the per liter price and vat. In this case, the quoted example price was for 32 gal with taxes)

[frcabot]

I think we may just have to scrap the whole thing unless we're able to get in touch with someone who can provide exact quotes that are reasonable ahead of time. I just want the basic, no frills, airport tie-down GA transient parking. I reached out to MMPR Puerto Vallarta, same deal, 3000 pesos for the night kind of the thing including all sorts of international landing and handling fees, a $100 "terminal access" fee, etc. all sorts of nonsense like that even though I explained 20 times that we're arriving and departing domestically and not internationally.

 

F*** it, I'll go to Canada instead. It's really unfortunate because the message that's being well-received is "we'd rather not get your business at all than have you spend thousands of pesos on fuel and taxes, and we're going to insist on charging you exorbitant rates that are not charged anywhere else in the world."

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Mexico has become a lot less welcoming of GA in the past 3-5 years. It's a shame.

[frcabot]

Mexico has become a lot less welcoming of GA in the past 3-5 years. It's a shame.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. My considerable tourist dollars will go elsewhere.

[Hank]

I think we may just have to scrap the whole thing unless we're able to get in touch with someone who can provide exact quotes that are reasonable ahead of time. I just want the basic, no frills, airport tie-down GA transient parking. I reached out to MMPR Puerto Vallarta, same deal, 3000 pesos for the night kind of the thing including all sorts of international landing and handling fees, a $100 "terminal access" fee, etc. all sorts of nonsense like that even though I explained 20 times that we're arriving and departing domestically and not internationally.

 

F*** it, I'll go to Canada instead. It's really unfortunate because the message that's being well-received is "we'd rather not get your business at all than have you spend thousands of pesos on fuel and taxes, and we're going to insist on charging you exorbitant rates that are not charged anywhere else in the world."

Email them back, "no thank you. We will vacation in Canada this year." And attach the (lack of) Canadian fees. Then include how much avgas you will not purchase in Mexico due to their airport fees.

[Hector]

Once Cuba opens up they will drop all the stupid fees or will starve.

[ArtVandelay]

Email them back, "no thank you. We will vacation in Canada this year." And attach the (lack of) Canadian fees. Then include how much avgas you will not purchase in Mexico due to their airport fees.

The guy your emailing with doesn't set the fees, that's like complaining to an IRS agent about the tax rates, they could care less

[Hank]

They get enough emails, eventually the boss will see one.

Or do nothing, and nothing will ever change. It's your choice, the west coast of Mexico is far enough from Alabama that I'll probably never fly there, to say nothing of the hills my little C would have to clear. W NC and E TN aren't a problem, but your hills are 50% taller.

On the other hand, with my carb heat fixed, I seem to have more power and certainly higher airspeed. But the fuel bill would be tremendous, so I'll have to pass.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

The guy your emailing with doesn't set the fees, that's like complaining to an IRS agent about the tax rates, they could care less

 

Actually Sebastian Romo, the owner of the airport, does set the fees. MMSL is privately owned by him. And he sees all the emails that come through.

 

Part of the problem is that Cabo is a major destination for the Hollywood crowd, so the fees are set with their private jets in mind. Same crapola that happened in KLAS, KSNA, etc. over the past 10-15 years. We small piston guys have been all but priced out of those airports.

 

I'm heading down in early March (on a commercial flight) and I'll try to bend Sebastian's ear about this issue while I'm down there. Maybe I can talk him into implementing a tiered fee structure based on aircraft weight, turbine vs. piston, or whatever. I'm not saying I'll be successful, but I do know the guy and have parked there enough recently that maybe he'll listen.

[frcabot]

Except that there are plenty of alternative airports, e.g. North Las Vegas and Henderson. And honestly KLAS isn't anywhere near as bad, I think parking for the day is like $40 and some of that is waived with exorbitant fuel purchase. So still a hell of a lot cheaper than the prices I'm seeing in Mexico.

But I can't imagine that MMSL has so much business that they gladly turn away people who would otherwise purchase 60 gallons of fuel and pay reasonable parking fees. It's odd because MMSD gets all the commercial traffic, so you'd think it'd be GA friendly just like Henderson or North Las Vegas vs. KLAS. But no, it appears they're even worse.

[frcabot]

Just following up in case anyone else stumbles on this thread. I spoke to Rick Gardner from Caribbean Sky Tours, who was extremely helpful. I highly recommend that organization for great information about flying to the Caribbean and Mexico and Central America. I'll quote liberally from his e-mail:

 

"These fees are definitely outrageous and unacceptable. Here is the situation. San Jose del Cabo / “Los Cabo” (MMSD) and Puerto Vallarta (MMPR) are both government airports run by private companies under a concession granted by the Mexican Federal Government. In addition at MMPR there is an FBO which has the highest fees in all of Mexico (and the Caribbean as well for that matter). However, at both airports there is General Aviation Parking (Aviación General) which is available to pilots like yourself. You DO NOT have to use the Aerotron FBO.

 

In the case of Cabo San Lucas (MMSL) this is a privately owned and operated airport which does not receive any Federal subsidies and has the liberty of setting their own rates.

 

...

 

The MMSD quote should be about US$ 8 for landing, another US$ 9 for loading and unloading and then approximately US$ 10 per night for parking. Again all of this plus 16%."

 

I called MMSD at the number that Rick had provided me. At first I was told that the fees were $25-28 per day for parking with another $65 per person charge, which was way out of line with what Rick had said to expect. The person I was speaking with then said something like "let me check" and he came back with $10 landing fee, $6-7 per passenger and $11/day for parking, which sounds right in line with what Rick had quoted. It sounds like (and I sure hope) that the handling fee at the FBO is not necessary.

 

As for MMPR, I called and spoke with an employee at the airport (after a lot of runaround). According to her the landing and parking fees combined at MMPR are about 455 pesos for the week or 65 pesos per day, which seems quite reasonable (about $35 for the entire week). No per passenger fees, thank god. 

[frcabot]

Ha ha new fubar: apparently on January 20, 2015, Mexico changed its rules so that entrants must now have a remaining passport validity of 6 months. I have 5 months left, one of my friends coming with only has about a month remaining. WTF. Canada simply requires passport validity through date of departure, Mexico was the same until apparently a week and a half ago. I remember when no passport was required at all. Seriously, WTF is up, does Mexico not want our gringo tourist dolares or what??!

[yvesg]

I think we may just have to scrap the whole thing unless we're able to get in touch with someone who can provide exact quotes that are reasonable ahead of time. I just want the basic, no frills, airport tie-down GA transient parking. I reached out to MMPR Puerto Vallarta, same deal, 3000 pesos for the night kind of the thing including all sorts of international landing and handling fees, a $100 "terminal access" fee, etc. all sorts of nonsense like that even though I explained 20 times that we're arriving and departing domestically and not internationally.

 

F*** it, I'll go to Canada instead. It's really unfortunate because the message that's being well-received is "we'd rather not get your business at all than have you spend thousands of pesos on fuel and taxes, and we're going to insist on charging you exorbitant rates that are not charged anywhere else in the world."

I am sorry to tell you this but the beach is closed this week here. Might not open next week unless something dramatic happens.

Yves (from Canada)

[Joe Zuffoletto]

 

Just following up in case anyone else stumbles on this thread. I spoke to Rick Gardner from Caribbean Sky Tours, who was extremely helpful. I highly recommend that organization for great information about flying to the Caribbean and Mexico and Central America. I'll quote liberally from his e-mail:

 

"These fees are definitely outrageous and unacceptable. Here is the situation. San Jose del Cabo / “Los Cabo” (MMSD) and Puerto Vallarta (MMPR) are both government airports run by private companies under a concession granted by the Mexican Federal Government. In addition at MMPR there is an FBO which has the highest fees in all of Mexico (and the Caribbean as well for that matter). However, at both airports there is General Aviation Parking (Aviación General) which is available to pilots like yourself. You DO NOT have to use the Aerotron FBO.

 

In the case of Cabo San Lucas (MMSL) this is a privately owned and operated airport which does not receive any Federal subsidies and has the liberty of setting their own rates.

 

...

 

The MMSD quote should be about US$ 8 for landing, another US$ 9 for loading and unloading and then approximately US$ 10 per night for parking. Again all of this plus 16%."

 

I called MMSD at the number that Rick had provided me. At first I was told that the fees were $25-28 per day for parking with another $65 per person charge, which was way out of line with what Rick had said to expect. The person I was speaking with then said something like "let me check" and he came back with $10 landing fee, $6-7 per passenger and $11/day for parking, which sounds right in line with what Rick had quoted. It sounds like (and I sure hope) that the handling fee at the FBO is not necessary.

 

As for MMPR, I called and spoke with an employee at the airport (after a lot of runaround). According to her the landing and parking fees combined at MMPR are about 455 pesos for the week or 65 pesos per day, which seems quite reasonable (about $35 for the entire week). No per passenger fees, thank god. 

 

 

Great info! Thanks for posting.

[kmyfm20s]

Just happened to see frcabot is on flight aware on his way to MMSD today.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

How about that! I guess he got his passport situation sorted out, and Mexico will be getting some of his considerable tourist dollars after all! 

 

I'm jealous. That flight down the peninsula is AWESOME.

[kmyfm20s]

That is a fantastic flight!

[frcabot]

Flight was great. Controllers were awesome. Airport was horrendous. I'm so mad right now about the airport and rental car. I'll report back when I've had a chance to cool down. Let me emphasize that neither MMSD nor MMSL are GA friendly and I would avoid both like the plague.

[jetdriven]

I remember cabo. They pull the optional "non optional 50$ a day" insurance scam. Fortunately I booked cars at 3 places and dragged my bag in the dirt with my flight attendant g/f on the side of the road to the next place where they didn't pull that game.

[kmyfm20s]

Loreto MMLT is my favorite airport to fly into, never have been jerked around there. Good VRBO places to rent and a little more Baja character that has been lost in Cabo and La Paz. We also go to Los Barrillos north of Cabo Sea of Cotez side. Amazing VRBO rentals there and you can fly into Punta Pescadero MMPP and arrange to have Quads or a car waiting for you when you land. We do Quads and it's a blast to cruise to dinner at night via the beach instead of a road.

[frcabot]

So, I've had a chance to calm down a bit but I'm still really frustrated. Basically, I called MMSD on I think Thursday or Friday (whenever I posted) and confirmed that the fees should have be minimal and that no FBO handling was required.

Well, something apparently changed in the last couple of days, because when I arrived today I was charged FBO fees of over $100 even though I used NO FBO services. That's right, the FBO provided absolutely no handling. Now, all of a sudden, there is no such thing as "aviacion general" and just like at MMSL the handling fees are mandatory, except unlike MMSL you will still have to do your own damn handling running around to 5 different offices.

On top of that, the "commandante" at MMSD has apparently implemented a new and completely arbitrary rule whereby he refuses to issue multi-entry plane permits after 3 PM. So although we landed at 4:30, well within the operating hours of the airport, and although the single-entry and multi-entry permits are the same price (I think around 1100 pesos or so), I walked away with only a single-entry permit. What bullshit. Then, the airport insisted on charging TUI passenger taxes, which don't apply to private flights but only to commercial operations. Again, over 1000 pesos. Fortunately, Rick Gardner intervened and convinced the airport to at least waive the TUI taxes (he apparently knows the Mexican federal register pertaining to aviation front and back), but he had no luck with respect to the FBO fees or the multi-entry permit.

I think it took us close to 2 hours from the time we landed to the time we made it out of the airport. Then we had to deal with the rental car mess. (Preview: was supposed to be for like $20, and the dude tried to run a 150,000 peso (yes, over $10,000 USD) charge on my Amex. No, not an authorization. An actual sale.

So far, my experience on this trip has been that every single Mexican person involved in any way with MMSD (from the airport folks to the rental car folks to the FBO people to the street hucksters) are professional con artists and thieves and liars. A Thrifty car rental guy actually told me that he was actually a Budget employee. lol (hint: he wasn't). Very unfortunate that the Mexican government allows these folks to leave such a strong negative impression on visitors.

On the plus side, as I said, the flight down itself was awesome and the controllers were great - very professional and friendly.

I am going to take great pleasure in disputing the majority of these charges with my credit card company. Thank God for US banks. And ya, I probably won't be able to fly a private plane to Cabo again, but god, after this experience you'd have to put a gun to my head for me to be willing to deal with this mess.

I hear I have more fun in store at MMPR, which is our next stop. Joy.

[Marauder]

I guess Landmark gouging isn't so bad after all.

The unfortunate thing is Mexico could be a great getaway for many GA pilots if it weren't for the horror stories like this that keep us north of the border.

[frcabot]

I guess Landmark gouging isn't so bad after all.

The unfortunate thing is Mexico could be a great getaway for many GA pilots if it weren't for the horror stories like this that keep us north of the border.

Yep

[cliffy]

Back in the day(70s) Baja was a great place to fly, now??????? Haven't been for years and don't plan on it. Catch a cheap flight at TJ to Cabo and spend the savings on upgraded rooms or beer.! Actually there is a great little place two blocks off the marina in Cabo "Mar de Cortez" cheap but excellent rooms and one of the best retaurants in Cabo inside.