TFR issued in R-4808 N

[kerry]

I was curious if anyone knows why a TFR would be issued in restricted airspace. There's a TFR approximately 35 miles East of the BTY VOR which is in the middle of R-4808 N.  Seems strange since no one can fly in this area anyway.

[Hank]

Because the rules say there's supposed to be a TFR, and career bureaucrats are well known to follow rules over common sense and logic. 

[MB65E]

It’s a Device Assembly Facility used for assembling atomic weapons. I thought it was strange too. I saw the TFR pop up a 2-3 weeks ago. The building is massive. Google maps has some neat pictures. 
-Matt

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, kerry said:

I was curious if anyone knows why a TFR would be issued in restricted airspace. There's a TFR approximately 35 miles East of the BTY VOR which is in the middle of R-4808 N.  Seems strange since no one can fly in this area anyway.

Wouldn’t surprise me if that facility (Yucca mtn storage, old nuclear test area, etc) was DOE.  They are doing something that needs a tfr and they did it to keep the Air Force out (who usually goes right through there).

[EricJ]

+1 that it keeps the people who normally use that airspace (i.e., the people for whom it is restricted to), from going in the TFR area.    Restricted Areas aren't prohibited to everybody, they're restricted to the people who are allowed to use it.   A TFR may keep those folks out, too.

[Ragsf15e]

And then there’s our own ability to go right through there… the tfr would likely prevent that as well.  Remember that we can get permission to cross R areas, and in some places it’s pretty easy.  I’m not saying that GA airplanes are normally cleared through this one, but I have been cleared through some Nellis areas on the weekend when nobody used them.

[201er]

39 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

And then there’s our own ability to go right through there… the tfr would likely prevent that as well.  Remember that we can get permission to cross R areas, and in some places it’s pretty easy.  I’m not saying that GA airplanes are normally cleared through this one, but I have been cleared through some Nellis areas on the weekend when nobody used them.

You can get cleared through TFRs too. Same deal, just squawking and talking.

[flyboy0681]

12 hours ago, MB65E said:

It’s a Device Assembly Facility used for assembling atomic weapons. I thought it was strange too. I saw the TFR pop up a 2-3 weeks ago. The building is massive. Google maps has some neat pictures. 
-Matt

Hmm, I wonder what this wire does..

[PT20J]

It's listed on tfr.faa.gov as  "Temporary flight restrictions for Special Security Reasons."

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, kerry said:

I was curious if anyone knows why a TFR would be issued in restricted airspace. There's a TFR approximately 35 miles East of the BTY VOR which is in the middle of R-4808 N.  Seems strange since no one can fly in this area anyway.

I thought you could fly in these with permission from using agency or controlling agency.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

You can get cleared through TFRs too. Same deal, just squawking and talking.

True, I guess I was just thinking it might change the approval authority atc would need to clear you through.

[MattCW]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

You can get cleared through TFRs too. Same deal, just squawking and talking.

Yep, the actual instructions for this one are:

1. ALL ACFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST BE ON AN ACT IFR OR VFR FLT PLAN WITH A DISCRETE CODE ASSIGNED BY AN AIR TFC CTL (ATC) FAC. ACFT MUST BE SQUAWKING THE DISCRETE CODE PRIOR TO DEP AND AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE TFR.
   
2. ALL ACFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST REMAIN IN TWO - WAY RADIO COM WITH ATC.

 

It seems pointless. It's the same as the one that pops up around Mayport NAS except this one requires a flight plan.

[kerry]

This airspace is continuously hot.  Groom Lake area 51. 

[201er]

46 minutes ago, kerry said:

This airspace is continuously hot.  Groom Lake area 51. 

Then maybe it's to make an airspace violation double jeopardy. Fly over this and then you're busted for violation of both restricted airspace and tfr!

[whiskytango]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

Then maybe it's to make an airspace violation double jeopardy. Fly over this and then you're busted for violation of both restricted airspace and tfr!

The FAA will put you on Double Secret Probation.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, MattCW said:

Yep, the actual instructions for this one are:

1. ALL ACFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST BE ON AN ACT IFR OR VFR FLT PLAN WITH A DISCRETE CODE ASSIGNED BY AN AIR TFC CTL (ATC) FAC. ACFT MUST BE SQUAWKING THE DISCRETE CODE PRIOR TO DEP AND AT ALL TIMES WHILE IN THE TFR.
2. ALL ACFT ENTERING OR EXITING THE TFR MUST REMAIN IN TWO - WAY RADIO COM WITH ATC.

 

It seems pointless. It's the same as the one that pops up around Mayport NAS except this one requires a flight plan.

Yeah it’s just their boilerplate tfr verbiage.  They don’t tell you what approval authority atc has to go through to clear you through.  Im guessing if you ask to fly through even with a squawk and under atc control, they’ll deny entry.

[201er]

33 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Yeah it’s just their boilerplate tfr verbiage.  They don’t tell you what approval authority atc has to go through to clear you through.  Im guessing if you ask to fly through even with a squawk and under atc control, they’ll deny entry.

Well apparently Blade claims to offer charters and helicopter flights to Area 51. Found this via google:

https://www.blade.com/airports/homey-area-51

 

[DCarlton]

10 hours ago, PT20J said:

It's listed on tfr.faa.gov as  "Temporary flight restrictions for Special Security Reasons."

Seems like I remember one of these in Hobbs NM this past year.  I’ve wondered if it’s associated with a movement of some sort.  Stuff coming and going.  Best to stay away.  Too many armored vehicles and people with loaded weapons…