Mooney flying lessons in Dallas

[dennis78750]

I will get my private license this coming year.  I have decided to purchase a Mooney (M20K, M20mBravo) and want to receive lessons in a Mooney from the start.

Any advice/info/help would be greatly appreciated!

[carusoam]

Hey Dennis, welcome aboard!  @dennis78750

This question comes up several times each year…

The answer is always… it depends….

1) It takes a lot of dough…

2) It takes a lot of time…

3) It takes a lot of dedication…

4) Sure, if you have all of these… you can skip from the low powered machines to the full on high powered and turbo’d devices…

5) Most people with limited time or funds… do their training for the PPL in a simple trainer… and acquire about 100 hours before moving up to their first Mooney… if you accidentally bend a plane, do it to a rented mule. 

6) Skipping a step means you are going to miss some valuable experience that you are going to want later anyways…. There is plenty of value to be found in getting to know various airplanes… the trainer is just one of them… the glider and the tail dragger are a couple of the others… a few MSers have some fun aerobatic experience as well… others have flown high powered helicopters…

7) Before getting the 100 hrs. in the trainer… be on the look out early, for which Mooney you want… and start the search… it can take nearly a year for everything to come together…

8) Often, people acquire an M20J… popular features and attributes, and flys quickly, and will give you the experience to move up… an M20E makes a fantastic retirement plane…

9) Moving up to things that have more than 250hp, or have a turbo… can get a low time pilot into dangerous situations….

10) Sure, the airforce puts people into jets early on…. And the airforce takes care of the dough, time, and dedication part…

 

11) Transition training…. There are many CFIIs in various states around the country… that have Mooney experience.  You want to learn every detail available about your bird… hiring the Mooney specific CFII is the right way to get that.

12) There is a consolidated list of Mooney CFIs around here… search on the word consolidated…. There is also a website where all of the Mooney CFIs are listed… an E-magazine for Mooney enthusiasts…

13) there isn’t anything hard or dangerous about flying a Mooney…. It is just amazing how dangerous you can be to yourself with powerful tools…

14) We have at least a few members that were successful learning to fly in a 280hp Mooney Acclaim…. They have jobs like race car driver, doctor/business magnate… and really know how to purchase the training they are looking for…

 

about me…

100 hrs. In a C152, a few more in a C172, a couple more in a DA10…

1k hrs… in the best Mooney ever… M20C.

a couple hundred more in an Ovation… the finest Mooney ever…. 

Not a doctor, or race car driver… and took a decade to get my IR.

 

There are a few threads around here that list all of the Mooneys ever built… from A to V…  I know I have made the list a couple of times…  

They all still fly.  They all are still loved…

Inflation has been tough on airplane prices… I hope your stack of dough has grown along with the economy.

 

As you move up the skill tree… consider what else you would like to learn…

On the East Coast, having an instrument rating is really helpful for flying away for a few days…. And not getting stuck due to weather…  early on, be good at knowing the weather, and have the ability to make a U-turn out of the clouds… and don’t run out of gas! 
 

There is so much experience to be gained… different seasons, different weather, different areas of the country

There are a few things to learn about purchasing a plane… lots of threads around here for that… it helps to know your experience regarding used machinery… what your budget is for things like a pre purchase inspection…

the PPI is always interesting… it often matches the price of the plane you are looking to buy.  They are always imperfect.  Yet they are the best protection for your wallet.  Mooney specific mechanics get mentioned a lot…

Acquiring all the experience can be a lot of fun!

You can do it!

Enjoy the hunt!

 

Best regards,

-a-

[DCarlton]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Hey Dennis, welcome aboard!  @dennis78750

This question comes up several times each year…

The answer is always… it depends….

1) It takes a lot of dough…

2) It takes a lot of time…

3) It takes a lot of dedication…

4) Sure, if you have all of these… you can skip from the low powered machines to the full on high powered turbo’d devices…

5) Most people with limited time or funds… do their training for the PPL in a simple trainer… and acquire about 100 hours before moving up to their first Mooney…

6) Skipping a step means you are going to miss some valuable experience that you are going to want later anyways…. There is plenty of value to be found in getting to know various airplanes… the trainer is just one of them… the glider and the tail dragger are a couple of the others…

7) Before getting the 100 hrs. in the trainer… be on the look out for which Mooney you want… and start the search… it can take nearly a year for everything to come together…

8) Often, people acquire an M20J… popular features and attributes, and flys quickly, and will give you the experience to move up… an M20E makes a fantastic retirement plane…

9) Moving up to things that have more than 250hp, or have a turbo… can get a low time pilot into dangerous situations….

10) Sure, the airforce puts people into jets early on…. And the airforce takes care of the dough, time, and dedication part…

 

11) Transition training…. There are many CFIIs in various states around the country… that have Mooney experience.  You want to learn every detail available about your bird… hiring the Mooney specific CFII is the right way to get that.

12) There is a consolidated list of Mooney CFIs around here… search on the word consolidated…. There is also a website where all of the Mooney CFIs are listed… an E-magazine for Mooney enthusiasts…

13) there isn’t anything hard or dangerous about flying a Mooney…. It is just amazing how dangerous you can be to yourself with powerful tools…

14) We have at least a few members that were successful learning to fly in a 280hp Mooney Acclaim…. They have jobs like race car driver, doctor/business magnate… and really know how to purchase the training they are looking for…

 

about me…

100 hrs. In a C152, a few more in a C172, a couple more in a DA10…

1k hrs… in the best Mooney ever… M20C.

a couple hundred more in an Ovation… the finest Mooney ever…. 

Not a doctor, or race car driver… and took a decade to get my IR.

 

There are a few threads around here that list all of the Mooneys ever built… from A to V…  I know I have made the list a couple of times…  

They all still fly.  They all are still loved…

Inflation has been tough on airplane prices… I hope your stack of dough has grown along with the economy.

 

As you move up the skill tree… consider what else you would like to learn…

On the East Coast, having an instrument rating is really helpful flor flying away for a few days…. And not getting stuck due to weather…  early on, be good at knowing the weather, and have the ability to make a U-turn out of the clouds… 

There are a few things to learn about purchasing a plane… lots of threads around here for that… it helps to know your experience regarding used machinery… what your budget is for things like a pre purchase inspection…

the PPI is always interesting… it often matches the price of the plane you are looking to buy.  They are always imperfect.  Yet they are the best protection for your wallet.

Acquiring all the experience can be a lot of fun!

Enjoy the hunt!

(Same advice I gave my son recently…)

 

Best regards,

-a-

It would be interesting to start a pole; how many hours did you have when you bought your Mooney.  I’d have to look it up but for me, it was around 200 hours.  

[carusoam]

30 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

It would be interesting to start a pole; how many hours did you have when you bought your Mooney.  I’d have to look it up but for me, it was around 200 hours.  

Hey DC!

I know we have discussed this topic a few times…

Anyone can set up a poll…

@201er is our most prolific pollster!

See if you can get it figured out.

If not, just start a thread and see how many people join the discussion…

How much experience you had…

What Mooney was the first…

How long until you moved up to the next one, and which one was that…

 

Two issues I wanted to have good experience with… before going 280hp…  and a good review again when going 310hp…

1) Go arounds, with all of the trimming….

2) Everything else…

 

Go for it!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Pinecone]

The only way to train ab initio in a Mooney is pretty much to buy one.

Then you deal all the things of ownership as well as learning.

And you also will have to deal with missing lessons due to issues with your plane.  With a typical flight school, they will have several airplanes, so another should be available.

Also, talk to an insurance broker about how much that is going to cost.  Be sitting down when you get that number.

[201er]

9 hours ago, DCarlton said:

It would be interesting to start a pole; how many hours did you have when you bought your Mooney.  I’d have to look it up but for me, it was around 200 hours.  

 

[dkkim73]

 That thread on # of hours going into a Mooney is an interesting read. 

-Background: just shy of 300 hrs TT, instrument-rated, about 40-50 hrs HP. Solo'ed as a young kid at an Air Force base club but never got my PPL until later on (time and money). When I did it was with a very dialed-in instructor who'd just come from a part 141 school and trained me with that mindset and syllabus (though I did not do 141). Flows, ComAir checklists, tight standards. Flew often and got extra training because that's what I wanted (mountains, some IMC/IFR, etc). I can really feel the effects of the Law of Primacy through my subsequent training (great IFR instructor but less formalized in his style, and several more variable instructors), and even as I've done some refresher work recently. Long hiatus from GA during which I flew only as non-pilot crew. 

- I went through a different but related calculus this year. I chose an aircraft driven by a practical mission (new commute, though obv. other benefits including getting back into GA). I definitely "feel" the intent behind your thinking and resemble it in some ways, though want to caution others. 

My thoughts for what they're worth: 

- I haven't started my Mooney transition so I am speaking to other aspects, which will apply to you more or less based on your situation (see below)
- Since you're on the front end, I think you should consider the overall journey, not just the later phases of getting used to the Mooney and flying it. 
- Cost will be a lot less in most cases to do initial training in rented trainers. 
- Availability, as mentioned, will likely be better if you're less dependent on a specific airplane. This will directly affect your time to progress (in any way) and hassle factor. 

What are your resources? 
- finding an airplane was a significant part-time job for me; so much so that I decided to defer some other projects outside of work and also effectively postponed my refresher training. It was distracting and a lot of time and some money. 
- I was tempted to shortcut this by outsourcing to an expert or making simplifying assumptions; after modest digging I realized this would sacrifice a lot of suitability, or money, or both. So I ended up being a lot more detailed. For all I know I might still have hurried too much. One broker I spoke with asked 3% to take the problem out of my hands and find me several aircraft based on mission and vet them. I ended up benefiting from smart advice gratis and selectively hiring out different tasks and advice, but still drove the process. 
- How taxing is the rest of your life? I was nearly "all in" outside of work as a single person when I doubled-down on getting my PPL in early 2000's and doing a good job. And work wasn't too taxing at that time (ha, that has varied). For instruments, I had a busy but regimented life that I could manage, and was very motivated for several reason. 
If you have a lot of money, do you also have time? One alone isn't quite enough. 
- The value of doing good primary and instrument training is IMHO enormous. People have mentioned mil pilot candidates here. I was a flight surgeon. Those people are young, talented (from whom much is given, much is expected), and *focused* for the most part. It is also 110% clear their job is to learn and perform. It is hard to convey some of the stress (I speak mainly from the post-Clinton USAF viewpoint, it might've been different before). But to suggest that dropping a highly-selected 20-something into a T-38 after surviving UPT is similar to an accessible civ path is I think risking missing some factors. The Navy primary experience back in the day has some relevance I imagine.... I think a better analog might be (from my observation) a smart fast-burner going to a part 141 school, taking advantage of opportunities afterwards (CFI, traffic, sight seeing, etc), being disciplined/professional and getting into the regionals with a few 100 hrs in a good job market. 

-> My instinct from multiple observations and the psych/human factors viewpoint is that what we civ-primary pilots should target is: - adequate focus/resources on whatever we do - structured and pedagogically-sound teaching (that's part of the value of 141 but there are also instructors out there who make things magically clear and spin gold from their lips, but they aren't all that way) - intelligently managing our own paths. 

- So, my practical advice is: 
1. get the best foundation you can, doesn't matter if in dinky slow planes, they'll make you better for the experience (and save money and dispatch waits!), for our situations plan right away to continue to instruments. If you've got the money and bandwidth, also do tailwheel to improve your stick-and-rudder skills, upsets/aero etc., get some XC experience. 
2. in parallel learn about the space and the planes you like (Mooneys, of course, right?). Kind of like keeping an eye open for real estate or learning to shop with appreciation without buying (I try to teach this to my children).  Then when you pull the trigger on that antique watch (or Encore, or Acclaim?) all the parts will snap into place...

Other thoughts: 
You might be a highly-capable person and be able to navigate this well.  You might also be very well-resourced and can effect shortcuts that will get you there faster. But the training aspect, and the unknown/known unknowns in aircraft sourcing can only be boiled down so far. 

All of the above and $2.79 will get you a small coffee somewhere

HTH, 
David

[T. Peterson]

21 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hey Dennis, welcome aboard!  @dennis78750

This question comes up several times each year…

The answer is always… it depends….

1) It takes a lot of dough…

2) It takes a lot of time…

3) It takes a lot of dedication…

4) Sure, if you have all of these… you can skip from the low powered machines to the full on high powered and turbo’d devices…

5) Most people with limited time or funds… do their training for the PPL in a simple trainer… and acquire about 100 hours before moving up to their first Mooney… if you accidentally bend a plane, do it to a rented mule. 

6) Skipping a step means you are going to miss some valuable experience that you are going to want later anyways…. There is plenty of value to be found in getting to know various airplanes… the trainer is just one of them… the glider and the tail dragger are a couple of the others… a few MSers have some fun aerobatic experience as well… others have flown high powered helicopters…

7) Before getting the 100 hrs. in the trainer… be on the look out early, for which Mooney you want… and start the search… it can take nearly a year for everything to come together…

8) Often, people acquire an M20J… popular features and attributes, and flys quickly, and will give you the experience to move up… an M20E makes a fantastic retirement plane…

9) Moving up to things that have more than 250hp, or have a turbo… can get a low time pilot into dangerous situations….

10) Sure, the airforce puts people into jets early on…. And the airforce takes care of the dough, time, and dedication part…

 

11) Transition training…. There are many CFIIs in various states around the country… that have Mooney experience.  You want to learn every detail available about your bird… hiring the Mooney specific CFII is the right way to get that.

12) There is a consolidated list of Mooney CFIs around here… search on the word consolidated…. There is also a website where all of the Mooney CFIs are listed… an E-magazine for Mooney enthusiasts…

13) there isn’t anything hard or dangerous about flying a Mooney…. It is just amazing how dangerous you can be to yourself with powerful tools…

14) We have at least a few members that were successful learning to fly in a 280hp Mooney Acclaim…. They have jobs like race car driver, doctor/business magnate… and really know how to purchase the training they are looking for…

 

about me…

100 hrs. In a C152, a few more in a C172, a couple more in a DA10…

1k hrs… in the best Mooney ever… M20C.

a couple hundred more in an Ovation… the finest Mooney ever…. 

Not a doctor, or race car driver… and took a decade to get my IR.

 

There are a few threads around here that list all of the Mooneys ever built… from A to V…  I know I have made the list a couple of times…  

They all still fly.  They all are still loved…

Inflation has been tough on airplane prices… I hope your stack of dough has grown along with the economy.

 

As you move up the skill tree… consider what else you would like to learn…

On the East Coast, having an instrument rating is really helpful for flying away for a few days…. And not getting stuck due to weather…  early on, be good at knowing the weather, and have the ability to make a U-turn out of the clouds… and don’t run out of gas! 
 

There is so much experience to be gained… different seasons, different weather, different areas of the country

There are a few things to learn about purchasing a plane… lots of threads around here for that… it helps to know your experience regarding used machinery… what your budget is for things like a pre purchase inspection…

the PPI is always interesting… it often matches the price of the plane you are looking to buy.  They are always imperfect.  Yet they are the best protection for your wallet.  Mooney specific mechanics get mentioned a lot…

Acquiring all the experience can be a lot of fun!

You can do it!

Enjoy the hunt!

 

Best regards,

-a-

Typical -a- post: insightful, well written, informative and interesting. Glad I came across it. Not as many as there used to be.

[dennis78750]

Thanks to all for your insight, and wisdom.  I will "cool my jets" and go the trainer route first; bend the rented mule!  I'm a retired electrical contractor, so I wear a belt and suspenders when it comes to safety and SOP's.

I had a lot of "stick time" in the Army; mostly rotor winged aircraft ( LOH6, OH58, etc.) but also fun in the Beaver and others.

The $ and time are not an issue, and the will to make this happen is there, so here I go!

Once again, thank all of you for your sincere and kind advice! 

Dennis

[ap891]

@dennis78750 Dennis, I remember seeing this person advertise complex and/or instrument training in his 252 last year in the North Texas Aviators facebook page.  Something to keep in mind when you gain more experience and are ready for complex and instrument training.    Also, the Pilot Rise flight school at T67 Hicks in Fort Worth has an F model for rent, both for training and personal use. 

Edited January 8 by ap891

[hammdo]

I’ve used Pilot Rise — Michael is young but has a lot of Mooney time great guy and very patient - he gets very busy though. Zulu Aviation rents the plane - I’ve flown it about 15 hours before I bought mine. Good group to work with.

-Don