MAPA Email List

[Greg_D]

I had an intersting exchange on the subject list earlier today.  Trey posted a note about Hawker/Beechcraft filing for bankruptcy in the near future.  He also made a statement of "See, we don't have it so bad.  Mooney did not do this."  My reply to that was that things must be pretty bad in Mooney land if the best we can do is say that we suck less than the other guy.  I also pointed out that ABS is at Sun N Fun and will be at Oskosh, events that MAPA has not attended recently.  Trey's response was that ABS has a higher membership count and a much graeter member participation rate.  I responded that it was a chicken and egg story and asked that if perhaps their member and participation rate are higher because the organization provides more of what its members are looking for.

As is often the case on that list, any time anyone offers a viewpoint that isn't excatly in line with what the list elders perceive as "correct", the personal attacks start.  Maybe that's another reason why their participation rate is low and they are loosing members.  Maybe they need some new leadership.

 

 

 

[IFlyMooney]

I don't think that having MAPA purchase this list is a solution to anything.  I think that it is very telling that more new and potential Mooney owners join this list, not the MAPA one.  It is an indication of the lack of real leadership at MAPA.  It seems to me there needs to be a stepping up of resources for Mooney owners of parts and alternatives to keep our planes flying, not crying about how expensive it is to attend the major shows.

[OR75]

I used to be a MAPA member but dropped it as it seems to be always the same old same.

I also used to receive the free editions of the MOA magazine and, to be honest, found it to be more useful than MAPA (even if it had more "commercial" content. I belivee MOA stopped publishing.

Not sure what is the best avenue for supporting a source of info and an association for Mooney owners.  

[DrBill]

I mentioned this on the subject list and will outline here.. I don't know if ABS is factory supported or independant.  I do know that the Beech Aero Club (BAC) is all volunteer (covers the baby Beeches not in production, Musketeer, Sundowner, etc). They have a quarterly mag, similar to MAPA LOG, and a national Flyin in (BAC FEST) .  I was a founding member there and a division director for a few years.  The only one that I know that gets paid is the webmaster and I don't think it's in full for all services, just what the "server" costs him.

BAC is present at SNF and OSH at the type club tent. They don't have the resources for big stuff (c 500 members) but what they do is nice. I've noticed that there were apparantly other grass roots organizations of Mooneys that fell apart.  MOA ?  WHat ever happend to that ?

Both MAPA and MOA websites are woefully behind and that does not take any money to update.  Just time.

Check out BAC (beechaeroclub.org).  You have be a member to see some of the stuff but you can get an idea what an all volunteer outfit can provide.

BILL

 

[John Pleisse]

People are more apt to complain than cpompliment....guilty myself.... but maybe this is a good read for Trey and Co. A facelift, more compelling content, better clothing and apparel for sale and a greater PR effort for the Safety Foundation and great replacemenmt for Jerry's seminars, etc. It is the same old thing.......

MOA was worthless and when the publisher, himself often editorialized about his own legal civil suits, it really dragged the rag into the gutter. Horrible magazine.

[Steve Dawson]

I have to disagree, Today I just sent in my low subscription fee for what I think is valuble information for the investment I made in my M20J last year. There may be some uninteresting things in there but quite a bit more helpfull and informative then not. Besides I believe Mooney Space and MAPA actually compliment each other.   

[jetdriven]

I agree, Greg.  We just bought a Mooney and MAPA seems kind of dead.  The MAPA homecoming felt like a funeral for affordable flying and 2$ avgas. I posted that on the MAPAlist and sure provoked an outburst on it.  As long as the theme for the homecoming is "remember when", a personal email to Trey about covering our air racing adventures last year gets ignored, and seminars on "how to cheat your taxes for business", "ladies guide to handguns and self defense in the hill country", and "why you need this 50K garmin panel in your 50K Mooney" are the centerpiece for the MAPA convention, it will continue to slide into the abyss.  

 

OK, give me hell.  But I am in the minority for a reason.

[jetdriven]

Quote: N4352H

People are more apt to complain than cpompliment....guilty myself.... but maybe this is a good read for Trey and Co. A facelift, more compelling content, better clothing and apparel for sale and a greater PR effort for the Safety Foundation and great replacemenmt for Jerry's seminars, etc. It is the same old thing.......

MOA was worthless and when the publisher, himself often editorialized about his own legal civil suits, it really dragged the rag into the gutter. Horrible magazine.

[mooneyflyer]

Greg,

MAPA has been on the decline for several years.  There is a fleet of Mooney owners out there, mostly vintage, that need assistance in securing parts and information on maintaining our Mooneys. Most of that information comes from other Mooney owners and this forum, not MAPA.  Don Maxwell has also been a huge source of support as have LASAR and Top Gun.  The MAPA LOG has been reduced to almost zero value-added content.  The convention's highlight is the Ice Cream Social.  The other value of the convention is the cameraderie, socializing and sharing experiences, which can also be found at most Mooney weekend fly-ins.  As Kevin stated in an earlier post, MAPA needed to step up when Mooney Aircraft went dormant.  The MAPA list is the most valuable component, and that can be provided for no cost, just as MooneySpace is.  So there is a real lack of leadership and understanding of its members' needs.

[N513ZM]

The big difference between MAPA and the other organizations is that MAPA is privately owned and for profit - the ABS and COPA and CPA and MMOPA and AYA etc are member owned and operated. That is a HUGE difference.

 

 

[Hank]

MAPA provides additional services, such as the PPP and Jerry's Maintenance classes--last one coming up this summer, unless someone else steps up to replace him. The magazine is decent, but lately has been getting very thin. There are still some good articles and information, though.

Participation in the mailing lists would probably be higher if they were advertised. I'd been a member for a couple of years before I found out about them. They have a wealth of information, it's just painful to dig through the archives looking for it. Updating their website seems like the way to go, then we would have TWO functional information sources [here and MAPA] instead of one functional site [here] and a great wealth of almost-unsearchable information [MAPA]. Hint:  I want to attend another PPP this year, but can't register through the website--I either have to photocopy the form out of the magazine, or reach them on the phone when they aren't talking to someone else.

Never having attended the Convention, I can't address it's strengths or weaknesses. Texas and Arizona are rather far from much of the country for a three-day event, I have to wonder why it can't ever be held in another location?

In the meantime, now that winter is ending, we need to have some more Mooneyspace events! I'm already tied up two weekends each in April, May and June [two fly-outs, local airport day and the Indy Air Show]. Any weekend lunch ideas???

[Greg_D]

Quote: N513ZM

The big difference between MAPA and the other organizations is that MAPA is privately owned and for profit - the ABS and COPA and CPA and MMOPA and AYA etc are member owned and operated. That is a HUGE difference.

 

 

[Greg_D]

Quote: mooneyflyer

Greg,

MAPA has been on the decline for several years.  There is a fleet of Mooney owners out there, mostly vintage, that need assistance in securing parts and information on maintaining our Mooneys. Most of that information comes from other Mooney owners and this forum, not MAPA.  Don Maxwell has also been a huge source of support as have LASAR and Top Gun.  The MAPA LOG has been reduced to almost zero value-added content.  The convention's highlight is the Ice Cream Social.  The other value of the convention is the cameraderie, socializing and sharing experiences, which can also be found at most Mooney weekend fly-ins.  As Kevin stated in an earlier post, MAPA needed to step up when Mooney Aircraft went dormant.  The MAPA list is the most valuable component, and that can be provided for no cost, just as MooneySpace is.  So there is a real lack of leadership and understanding of its members' needs.

[Greg_D]

Quote: jetdriven

I agree, Greg.  We just bought a Mooney and MAPA seems kind of dead.  The MAPA homecoming felt like a funeral for affordable flying and 2$ avgas. I posted that on the MAPAlist and sure provoked an outburst on it.  As long as the theme for the homecoming is "remember when", a personal email to Trey about covering our air racing adventures last year gets ignored, and seminars on "how to cheat your taxes for business", "ladies guide to handguns and self defense in the hill country", and "why you need this 50K garmin panel in your 50K Mooney" are the centerpiece for the MAPA convention, it will continue to slide into the abyss.  

 

OK, give me hell.  But I am in the minority for a reason.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: Hank

Participation in the mailing lists would probably be higher if they were advertised. I'd been a member for a couple of years before I found out about them. They have a wealth of information, it's just painful to dig through the archives looking for it. 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: aviatoreb

Ha!  No kidding - I just found out yesterday - from this thread on Mooneyspace that MAPA has a mailing list. I have been a MAPA member for a year now.  An information source like that needs a search function if it will be of any value.

I joined MAPA last year - just because it seemed like the thing to do since I got myself a Mooney about 1 year ago.  Its nice receiving a glossy magazine in the mail with a picture of a Mooney on the cover if nothing else.  I plan to go to one of their training events later this summer.  Seems like a good idea.

[Hank]

Quote: aviatoreb

[danb35]

Quote: Greg_D

That explains a lot.  The director's "justification" for not attending Osh Kosh and Sun N Fun the last couple of years has been to preserve scarce funds.  I'm wondering if the justification is really to preserve his salary.

[jwilkins]

"That explains a lot.  The director's "justification" for not attending Osh Kosh and Sun N Fun the last couple of years has been to preserve scarce funds. "

1. There are MANY companies that have cut back on trade show attendance and exhibiting. It is expensive. We used to exhibit at two or more  trade shows a year and have cut back to *NONE*.  I would more likely question the judgement of an organization who did NOT consider cutting back, rather than pick on the ones who are trying to be fiscally responsible.

2. MAPA is a lot more than an email forum. I no longer subscribe to the email list as I find it cumbersome. Mooney Space is much easier for me to use, search, and navigate. However, I support MAPA with my membership so that they will continue to offer the Safety Foundation PPP and the magazine. The articles by John Allen, Dr Bob Achtel, Jerry Manthy, and Jimmy Garrison almost always have some information that is new or a refresher for me.

I hope in the future MAPA is able to update the articles about aircraft flight reviews and flying techniques. Publishing a hard copy magazine is a tough business now. It is a credit to the organization that they are able to keep up the print quality. 

I'm not sure what MAPA would gain by BUYING or merging MooneySpace; it is nice to have independant forums to choose from, but it sure would be interesting to see what would  happen to the subscriber numbers if MAPA had the same easy to use and navigate system.

I like the people on MooneySpace. Even with my ocassional gaffes people stay civil, unlike the AOPA forums where they seem to have a number of people who live there to put down anyone who makes a mistake or disagrees with them. There are only a few like that on MooneySpace and, since they do not get a lot of encouragement to post nasty messages, they tend to calm down eventually. This is a good site with good people poplulating it.

MAPA is an owners group that is a completely different animal than an internet forum. Comparing the AOPA forum to MAPA Email list to the MooneySpace forum, the Mooney Space is easier for me to use, populated with a group of very knowledgeable Mooney folks, who as also, in general, nice people who seem to be here to help, not to jump on others as en ego boost as I see sometimes on the AOPA forums.

Long run on sentence. My English teacher would be upset.

MooneySpace: Good forum. Works well, knowledgeable and nice people

MAPA: Good owners support organization. Email list not as good as Mooney Space forum

AOPA forum: More exposure, broader subject range, but seems to be infested with some angry folks.

My opinions; everyone is welcome to their own.

[jwilkins]

duplicate post. Sorry

[scottfromiowa]

I continue to subscribe to MAPA...I don't get a lot of benefit from the magazine, BUT enough that I continue to support it.  I do wish MAPA would have a presence at Oshkosh as I enjoy visiting "my tent" more so since MAC's status restricts their attendance.  I support aggressively with purchases of shirts, keychains, mugs etc...to defray cost of lemonade consumed on a hot Wisconsin summer day.  I hope that MAPA continues to "feature" a vintage upgraded Mooney (interior/paint/avionics as I really enjoy reading these articles MUCH more than "related" Mooney stuff.  I really value Mooney Space and give what I get with regard to feedback/posts...

[Greg_D]

Quote: danb35

So "if you like ABS better, buy a Bo" is a personal attack, but this isn't?  I'm not quite sure I follow how that logic works.

[carusoam]

Scott,

I like the Tshirts for lemonade trade as well.  Meeting up with MooneySpace people too.  We need to set a time during the day for MooneySpace visitors.

Best regards,

-a-

[Greg_D]

Quote: jwilkins

 

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: carusoam

Scott,

I like the Tshirts for lemonade trade as well.  Meeting up with MooneySpace people too.  We need to set a time during the day for MooneySpace visitors.

Best regards,

-a-