NTSB Final Is Out: N5895Q M20E Stillwater, OK

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I suspect a consideration these days is they don't want anything sitting on the shelf.

I get that, but they are also ensuring that there is a running scarcity at all times. We need a better, STC'd mousetrap.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, Echo said:

Photos from a 2022 loss of power crash.  Maybe damage is from crash.  Maybe not...

Where that sits in the front of the lower cowl, it’s pretty likely to get smashed if there’s any damage to the front of the airplane.

[201Mooniac]

21 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I suspect a consideration these days is they don't want anything sitting on the shelf.

Agreed and I know that MSCs are also limited in what they can stock but forum seems like a great place to organize group buys (even if it has to be done through an MSC) for hard to get parts.  If Mooney knows they need to build a certain number of them, advertise this on MS and get people to contact their MSC to place an order so these hard to find parts can get back into circulation.  If Mooney is willing to do parts building based on group buys, then it is up to us whether we commit and enable them to do the production.

 

I certainly understand that this seems backwards but our system needs some creativity and this was my attempt, any other ideas how we can get these parts to be available?

[Fly Boomer]

22 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

Agreed and I know that MSCs are also limited in what they can stock but forum seems like a great place to organize group buys (even if it has to be done through an MSC) for hard to get parts.  If Mooney knows they need to build a certain number of them, advertise this on MS and get people to contact their MSC to place an order so these hard to find parts can get back into circulation.  If Mooney is willing to do parts building based on group buys, then it is up to us whether we commit and enable them to do the production.

 

I certainly understand that this seems backwards but our system needs some creativity and this was my attempt, any other ideas how we can get these parts to be available?

This makes sense.  If Mooney knew that they were not going to end up with parts they couldn't sell immediately, it should remove some or all of their reluctance to produce a run.

[Shadrach]

53 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

Agreed and I know that MSCs are also limited in what they can stock but forum seems like a great place to organize group buys (even if it has to be done through an MSC) for hard to get parts.  If Mooney knows they need to build a certain number of them, advertise this on MS and get people to contact their MSC to place an order so these hard to find parts can get back into circulation.  If Mooney is willing to do parts building based on group buys, then it is up to us whether we commit and enable them to do the production.

 

I certainly understand that this seems backwards but our system needs some creativity and this was my attempt, any other ideas how we can get these parts to be available?

I am surprised they are not more active in soliciting this sort of thing.  I have participated in a number of group purchases.  For some reason,  it's almost always initiated and organized by someone on the buy side rather than the sell side.

[Pinecone]

Interesting that it has not happened.

An MSC could advertise.  They could even offer a discount to other MSCs.  Get 50 or 100 orders and have the factory make them.

If the factory would committ to making them at a certain minimum number of orders, I think the MSC could get substantial deposits or even pre-paid.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Interesting that it has not happened.

An MSC could advertise.  They could even offer a discount to other MSCs.  Get 50 or 100 orders and have the factory make them.

If the factory would committ to making them at a certain minimum number of orders, I think the MSC could get substantial deposits or even pre-paid.

I suspect that they will have to be prepaid to the factory.  Mooney doesn't seem to act like it has any available cash to invest in inventory.  Otherwise they would have already built sufficient inventory in all the "critical" OEM parts.  

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

I suspect that they will have to be prepaid to the factory.  Mooney doesn't seem to act like it has any available cash to invest in inventory.  Otherwise they would have already built sufficient inventory in all the "critical" OEM parts.  

Most group buys are prepaid. Not a deal breaker for most of us. Certainly preferred to grounding the aircraft.

[T. Peterson]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:48 PM, 1980Mooney said:

Like so many things Mooney, parts are not available and there is no expressed desired by the company to provide support.  Although there is "no guidance for repairing the part" Mooney owners have been sharing their own homegrown bespoke induction air duct repair processes here on MS for a long time. 

Some opined, some made "hangar elves" repairs, some owners just declare that they made the repair, I referred to it as shade tree repair. I suspect that more are doing it than post on MS and I doubt all are doing it with A&P approval (or perhaps without an A&P even noticing the condition or repair of the duct if N5895Q is a guide).  Apparently, and unfortunately, the former owner or a former A&P of N5895Q thought duct tape would make an adequate repair.

• RR ENGINEER said "I am going to take mine off and spray that Flex Seal on it have put some on and it seems to be working just have to put layer after layer on let each layer dry before you add more. This part is very poorly constructed. Looks like to me the flex seal will make it better. Going to put it on and run it just be sure to inspect after flying each time for a while."
• David LLoyd said "I have used two pieces of thick plastic bag, put the fg cloth and RTV between, work it in and trim to size with a wheel cutter.  When ready to apply, remove one side of the plastic, put in place and remove the other plastic side, kind of like a real messy band-aid."
• kortopates suggested "I use this Rescue tape on heater air ducting and the like - a silicone self fusing tape:   https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/rescuetape.php  I started off with the uni-wrap silicone tape and found this superior. I wouln't use it on a induction hose or boots because I have to be super cautious with a turbo to prevent ingesting any foreign debris.
  • But I think this tape is better than some of the alternatives being discussed.
• hammdo said "I use the silicone tape also. The liquid electrical tape sticks and is very hard to get off but, one could tape over and then cover with the liquid tape. "
• A64Pilot opined "I would never use silicone as it’s not fuel safe or oil proof for that matter. ‘I’d be real suspicious of liquid electrical tape, I have some myself but don’t know if it holds up to fuel and oil. ‘For a temporary repair for something like that, I’d go to B2 every time , that’s what many call fuel tank sealer AKA Proseal, as I’m sure everyone knows it’s available as either A or B, the A is thinner than the B, the number is available from 1/2 to 2. that’s the number of hours it’s pot life is, so of course 1/2 sets up four times faster than the 2. We know it’s fuel and oil proof, and anyone who has removed it from a fuel tank can attest to how tough and resilient it is.
  • I’d think painting a layer of A on the boot would at least work as a temporary repair, certainly better than tape or silicone.
  • ‘B2 is an extremely useful thing to have, it’s not classified as an adhesive, but try to get parts it’s holding together apart and make up your own mind.
• N201MKTurbo advised "My hangar elves had very good results that lasted years. The repair was done with black RTV and light weight fiberglass cloth. Make all repairs on the outside to reduce the likelihood of the repair getting sucked in. When they were done, you couldn’t even tell it was repaired. If anybody is interested, I can get them to give me all the details.

  • Remove the duct. Scrub it with a toothbrush and Comet cleanser until it is clean in and out. Wait for it to be completely dry. 

  • Cut come squares and strips of 1oz plain weave fiberglass cloth. With a gloved finger, rub a very light coat of black high temp RTV over the damaged area on the outside of the boot. Make sure it is worked in well for good adhesion. Press the fiberglass into the RTV. Don’t worry about the edges of the fiberglass, you are going to trim those later, just make sure the fiberglass conforms to the shape of the boot and doesn’t have any bulges or wrinkles. Let it cure overnight. Come back the next day and trim all the fiberglass cloth that isn’t bonded to the boot. Apply some more RTV to the top of the fiberglass completely saturating the fiberglass with RTV. Use just enough to saturate the fiberglass, you don’t want any buildup of RTV. Place another layer of fiberglass cloth into the RTV and let cure overnight. The next day trim the edges of the fiberglass cloth and apply enough RTV completely cover the cloth and a bit beyond. Make it as smooth as possible. Let it cure overnight and inspect it. If it looks good an flexes OK, put it back on."

 

 

 

Sounds like there are a bunch of pretty sharp fellas here on Mooneyspace!

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Most group buys are prepaid. Not a deal breaker for most of us. Certainly preferred to grounding the aircraft.

Or worse, having a loss of power and a crash.