What’s the Best Option for Upgrading Cabin Insulation?

[RoundTwo]

I’ve removed all of the interior panels in order to install carpeted side panels and new door welting. I’ve got quite the assortment of insulation materials in use. It ranges from OEM 1/2” fiberglass batting to fiberglass over foam to 1/2” foil- backed foam to what I will call hushmat across from the baggage door. 
 

While I have everything removed, I’d like to go ahead and upgrade it all. 
 

What is the beat option(s) for both thermal insulation and sound deadening?

Chuck

[1980Mooney]

 

 

 

[1980Mooney]

No point in reinventing the wheel just yet...

[RoundTwo]

9 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

 

Thank you. I’ll read them all.

[M20F]

We got our Executive from the factory lined in ermine but I am thinking about upgrading to sable. 

[1980Mooney]

5 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

Thank you. I’ll read them all.

Here is one more.  It is a little older.  

 

[Shadrach]

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/soundproofinstall.php

[PT20J]

I have no idea what is the "best". But I assumed that Mooney might have. So, when I pulled my interior for avionics installation and to repair and paint all the plastic, I ripped out all the remaining fiberglass (I already had the aluminum/foam insulation on the side panels) and I ordered the material from Mooney through a MSC. The airplane is maybe slightly quieter (hard to tell) but it stays cooler in the summer and doesn't take much heat to warm the cabin in the winter. Mooney sells the material in rolls, (I forget the width) and it's expensive, so I spent some time figuring out how to cut out the pieces I needed from the minimum length of material. Mooney buys the aluminum/foam from one company and then has another put the adhesive backing on it and then they do a burn cert. The adhesive is interesting. You can lift it up and reposition it while installing, but if you let it set a bit it is impossible to remove without tearing up the foam.

Skip

[KSMooniac]

I installed SoundEx in the roof area of my J last year and am impressed with the performance vs. the ratty OEM fiberglass.

[RoundTwo]

Just now, KSMooniac said:

I installed SoundEx in the roof area of my J last year and am impressed with the performance vs. the ratty OEM fiberglass.

Did you buy direct from Soundex, or go rogue and buy bulk from someone like Spruce and make your own patterns?

[philiplane]

do not use the thick black foam type insulation as linked above.

It turns into black dust in 5-8 years in warm environments, and it is heavy. Wrapped fiberglass is best, that's what the turbine crowd uses. Air bubble type is second best.

I'm already pulling it back out of customer planes, it makes a huge mess, black sticky crumbles everywhere. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by philiplane

[KSMooniac]

Direct from SoundEx and just cut my own.  It isn't difficult.  I have a big roll of butcher paper that I use for stuff like that and it works great.  It doesn't have to be extremely precise as it will press into the cavities between the tubes and aluminum structure.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

We die cut Ensolite foam for Columbia / Cessna it’s faa / tso

with or without psa backing 

i suggest 3m high temp Velcro on the smooth side for aircraft inspections.

Foammart Burbank is the distributor 

it takes 1/16 of a second to die cut to perfection.

GB

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

I installed SoundEx in the roof area of my J last year and am impressed with the performance vs. the ratty OEM fiberglass.

I did SoundEx on two different Mooneys when I had the interiors out. I bought the sheets and cut them with an electric kitchen knife, worked very well. I didn't see a huge noise difference but definitely a temperature difference in summer and winter.

[larryb]

My ‘97 Encore is much quieter than my previous ‘84 J. So whatever the factory did in those 13 years works.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

i suggest 3m high temp Velcro on the smooth side for aircraft inspections.

Are you recommending Ensolite without the PSA, and then using the high temp Velcro instead?

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

Direct from SoundEx and just cut my own.  It isn't difficult.  I have a big roll of butcher paper that I use for stuff like that and it works great.  It doesn't have to be extremely precise as it will press into the cavities between the tubes and aluminum structure.

You use the butcher paper to make a template, and then transfer to the insulating material?

[KSMooniac]

You use the butcher paper to make a template, and then transfer to the insulating material?

Yes, or in easy cases just measure for regular-ish pieces.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, larryb said:

My ‘97 Encore is much quieter than my previous ‘84 J. So whatever the factory did in those 13 years works.

I think the biggest difference comes from the improved materials in the interior. The thicker fiberglass interior panels made a big difference. The thinner royalite that was used before, for lack of a better term, "rattled" a lot and since it was so thin,  didn't insulate the sound well. 

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I think the biggest difference comes from the improved materials in the interior. The thicker fiberglass interior panels made a big difference. The thinner royalite that was used before, for lack of a better term, "rattled" a lot and since it was so thin,  didn't insulate the sound well. 

I was thinking some of the difference might be 6-cylinder Continental instead of the 4-banger.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I was thinking some of the difference might be 6-cylinder Continental instead of the 4-banger.

I had a M20K 231 with the 6 cylinder Continental and the Royalite interior and then later an M20K Encore with the 6 cylinder Continental and fiberglass interior.  The noise difference was significant.

[KSMooniac]

3 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I had a M20K 231 with the 6 cylinder Continental and the Royalite interior and then later an M20K Encore with the 6 cylinder Continental and fiberglass interior.  The noise difference was significant.

I believe that 100%, and I also believe that having the prop further away from the windscreen (and pilot) can help some as well.  

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I had a M20K 231 with the 6 cylinder Continental and the Royalite interior and then later an M20K Encore with the 6 cylinder Continental and fiberglass interior.  The noise difference was significant.

So in your case, all the difference can probably be attributed to better materials and manufacturing techniques.

[LANCECASPER]

22 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

So in your case, all the difference can probably be attributed to better materials and manufacturing techniques.

Calling them manufacturing techniques might be a stretch, but for sure the materials are better for sure. The fiberglass panels are many times thicker and then the ladies in the Mooney upholstery shop would cover them with Ultraleather (fancy name for really durable vinyl) or earlier on they used Eurostretch (a fancy name name for fairly durable cloth).

For sure they were a few pounds heavier, but worth every ounce. Taking out the interior is so much easier on the long body Mooneys manufactured after 1994 and the Js and Ks after they also went to the fiberglass panels. Richard Collins in Flying Magazine did a review on a Mooney soon after the interior upgrades and it seemed that was the thing with which he was most impressed.

Mooney made kits that they sold to upgrade older Js, Ks and Ms to the new interiors. (All Ovations have the fiberglass side panels and headliners)

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Calling them manufacturing techniques might be a stretch, but for sure the materials are better for sure. The fiberglass panels are many times thicker and then the ladies in the Mooney upholstery shop would cover them with Ultraleather (fancy name for really durable vinyl) or earlier on they used Eurostretch (a fancy name name for fairly durable cloth).

For sure they were a few pounds heavier, but worth every ounce. Taking out the interior is so much easier on the long body Mooneys manufactured after 1994 and the Js and Ks after they also went to the fiberglass panels. Richard Collins in Flying Magazine did a review on a Mooney soon after the interior upgrades and it seemed that was the thing with which he was most impressed.

Mooney made kits that they sold to upgrade older Js, Ks and Ms to the new interiors. (All Ovations have the fiberglass side panels and headliners)

Any idea what year(s) they made those changes?