67 M20F - Panel Upgrade Just Started!

[Sheriff23]

My 67F is in for the panel upgrade.  I am installing a G3X touch, 650xi, and a GFC-500!  

I have a KX-155 that I was planning to retain as a standby Comm/Nav with CDI, but I am considering other options  

One is a GTR-20 for comm only.  Has anyone gone down to single nav when upgrading their panel?  I am not aware of a remote nav for the G3X.

Any inputs from people who finished similar panel setups is welcome!

Here is my current panel:

Now they’ve started!!!

The final panel will look similar to this

[Pinecone]

Why not keep your 430 for your second nav/com?

It gives you Comm, GPS, and VOR/LOC capability.

 

[Aerodon]

Have a serious look at a SL30 or GNC355 for your second fav com.  I believe the serial interface will work with both the G3X and the G5.  

Aerodon

 

[hubcap]

I put in a GNX 375 as the back-up navigator to  my GTN 650Xi.

The 650 cross-fills your flight plan automatically to the 375.

[natdm]

32 minutes ago, hubcap said:

I put in a GNX 375 as the back-up navigator to  my GTN 650Xi.

The 650 cross-fills your flight plan automatically to the 375.

To clarify (I learned this in my panel which is currently upgrading) the GNX is the one that crossfills as it comes with connext. The 650 doesn't have connext, but can accept it from the GNX. And that functionality just got put in to the 650 recently.

 

 

[Sheriff23]

46 minutes ago, hubcap said:

I put in a GNX 375 as the back-up navigator to  my GTN 650Xi.

The 650 cross-fills your flight plan automatically to the 375.

Good input.  By going with a GPS COMM and no second nav did you dump your second CDI?  Or do you have another Nav?

[natdm]

3 minutes ago, Sheriff23 said:

Hubcap,

Good input.  By going with a GPS COMM and no second nav did you dump your second CDI?  Or do you have another Nav?

Not who you asked, but since you're discussing a similar setup, I'll mention mine:

I ended up going from two 430's to a 650xi and a 355. Two GPS's, two radios, one nav. I've got a 345R connected to the 650xi to free up some panel space. 

[Sheriff23]

4 minutes ago, natdm said:

Not who you asked, but since you're discussing a similar setup, I'll mention mine:

I ended up going from two 430's to a 650xi and a 355. Two GPS's, two radios, one nav. I've got a 345R connected to the 650xi to free up some panel space. 

Nice. I was looking at switching to a 345R for panel space but wasn’t sure I wanted to spend the extra money for something truly not needed. 

[natdm]

1 minute ago, Sheriff23 said:

Nice. I was looking at switching to a 345R for panel space but wasn’t sure I wanted to spend the extra money for something truly not needed. 

I have a terrible mindset of "screw it I'm already dropping $ for all of this, what's a little bit more to free up the panel?..."

It in fact, did not free up the panel. Headset jacks were above our heads which I hated. So, moved them to the empty slot until I get the vac system removed, and replace instruments with a 275.

[Ragsf15e]

7 minutes ago, natdm said:

Not who you asked, but since you're discussing a similar setup, I'll mention mine:

I ended up going from two 430's to a 650xi and a 355. Two GPS's, two radios, one nav. I've got a 345R connected to the 650xi to free up some panel space. 

That’s a real nice setup.  Id either do that or have 2 nav/coms.  If the primary gps (650) fails, you want either a gps or nav (ils) remaining to get you down.

 

and either way, you want two comm radios.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Ragsf15e

[Sheriff23]

Just now, natdm said:

I have a terrible mindset of "screw it I'm already dropping $ for all of this, what's a little bit more to free up the panel?...

So true….the project has grown quite a bit….and I still don’t think I’m past the GICOL….the Good Idea Cut Off Line!

[natdm]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

That’s a real nice setup.  Id either do that or have 2 nav/coms.  If the primary gps (650) fails, you want either a gps or nav (ils) remaining to get you down.

Right. I figure the 355 has GPS, so that's two GPS units. If I'm IFR and the 650 fails, I'd just try to get VFR or land asap with the 355 for a GPS airport. I'll always keep that in mind while planning.

[hubcap]

43 minutes ago, Sheriff23 said:

1 hour ago, hubcap said:

I put in a GNX 375 as the back-up navigator to  my GTN 650Xi.

The 650 cross-fills your flight plan automatically to the 375.

Good input.  By going with a GPS COMM and no second nav did you dump your second CDI?  Or do you have another Nav?

I have 2 navigators

(1) GTN 650Xi - which is WAAS GPS as well as NAV and COM

(1) GNX 375 - which is a WAAS GPS as well as a transponder

I have an additional COM that is remote but I control it from the G3x

[OR75]

Isn’t having 2 panel GPSs an overkill ? 
any modern WAAS GPS has enough ports to connect to indicators , A/P, ADSB , FF ,  ….

my second map GPS is a tablet ( iPad) . Easily upgradable , very cheap to update the database , large screen size of my choice, take home for planning ,  at 1/10th of the price 

 

[hubcap]

13 hours ago, OR75 said:

Isn’t having 2 panel GPSs an overkill ? 
any modern WAAS GPS has enough ports to connect to indicators , A/P, ADSB , FF ,  ….

my second map GPS is a tablet ( iPad) . Easily upgradable , very cheap to update the database , large screen size of my choice, take home for planning ,  at 1/10th of the price 

 

I guess it is overkill, right up until one of them fails. That is why I added the 2nd GPS. I have had a failure in IMC in the past.

One is none.

Two is one.

[natdm]

14 hours ago, OR75 said:

Isn’t having 2 panel GPSs an overkill ? 
any modern WAAS GPS has enough ports to connect to indicators , A/P, ADSB , FF ,  ….

my second map GPS is a tablet ( iPad) . Easily upgradable , very cheap to update the database , large screen size of my choice, take home for planning ,  at 1/10th of the price 

 

Yes it's overkill. That said, my second GPS has functionality I'd need anyways, so it's a good safety of mind. The 355 (which I have) has Connext, to push and pull information. It's also got a comm, which I'd have needed anyways. 

Mechanic sent me a picture of the work in progress so you can see the 650 and 355.

Note on the non-ideal headset jacks: The headset jacks there are temporary until the EDM gets upgraded to a 900. They can't go by my knee since I'm pretty tall and bump that area, so I'll just have them extended and zipped to the bottom of the panel, routing to the pilot side and out of the way. There was apparently not a single inch on the panel that was free to use. He video-called me to prove it to me. 

[TheAv8r]

@Sheriff23 Yes, I went from 2 Navs down to 1 Nav on my panel upgrade (KX-155 to a Garmin GTR 225). Logic was, in the last 3 years, flying 150hrs a year, I had not actually used my Nav 2. I asked a bunch of my flying buddies when the last time they used Nav 2 was... none of them could recall it. So I ripped it out and saved myself a couple grand on the GTR 225 vs the 255. No regrets, have yet to need a Nav 2

[Mooney in Oz]

3 hours ago, hubcap said:

I guess it is overkill, right up until one of them fails. That is why I added the 2nd GPS. I have had a failure in IMC in the past.

One is none.

Two is one.

+1.. The same has happened to me too.

[OR75]

4 hours ago, hubcap said:

I guess it is overkill, right up until one of them fails. That is why I added the 2nd GPS. I have had a failure in IMC in the past.

One is none.

Two is one.

depends what the cause of failure is. Going through different cases:

- satellite signal is down:  2 panel GPS + iPad ... all down .... Turn to VOR navigation.

- one panel GPS unit fails (antenna or whatever): other panel GPS still works and iPad still works

- aircraft power failure:  2 panel GPSs down, iPad still works

not sure how to assign a probability of occurrence to those cases 

[Pinecone]

On 7/19/2023 at 12:39 AM, OR75 said:

Isn’t having 2 panel GPSs an overkill ? 
any modern WAAS GPS has enough ports to connect to indicators , A/P, ADSB , FF ,  ….

my second map GPS is a tablet ( iPad) . Easily upgradable , very cheap to update the database , large screen size of my choice, take home for planning ,  at 1/10th of the price 

Maybe.  But more is better.

I will have 5 when my panel gets done.

G3X VFR GPS

GTN-750Xi

GTN-650Xi (have it and not enough saving to swap down)

AERA 760 (dock on right panel)

iPad running FF or GP

[hubcap]

2 hours ago, OR75 said:

depends what the cause of failure is. Going through different cases:

- satellite signal is down:  2 panel GPS + iPad ... all down .... Turn to VOR navigation.

- one panel GPS unit fails (antenna or whatever): other panel GPS still works and iPad still works

- aircraft power failure:  2 panel GPSs down, iPad still works

not sure how to assign a probability of occurrence to those cases 

Like @Pinecone I also have G3x and IPad GPS capability. The GNX 375 was relatively inexpensive as a percentage of my panel upgrade.