Ovation Down Watertown

[Pinecone]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/315246

N1025C

1 occupant, fatal.  Occurred in initial climb.

[kortopates]

No reported metars for the departure airport but nearby UNU showed low ceilings

KUNU 141455Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM OVC007 16/15 A2971 RMK AO2 T01610151
KUNU 141435Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM OVC005 15/15 A2970 RMK AO2 T01480148
KUNU 141415Z AUTO 00000KT 7SM OVC005 15/15 A2970 RMK AO2 T01450145
KUNU 141355Z AUTO 00000KT 5SM BR OVC003 14/14 A2970 RMK AO2 T01420142

After it departed 05 and climbed to 2000' it then became somewhat erratic in altitude and airspeed while continuing turn to the west before its final turn north where the track ends at 2400'

[Echo]

Sorry, I also posted about crash. Article says two fatalities 

[mike_elliott]

The smoke from Canada repaying us for our acid rain debacle was intense in MN and ND the last couple of days. Yesterday in Fargo, the sun was blocked and previous 3 days provided a training scenario in real life for my client. I am curious if this had been a factor. 

If anyone knows the fatal pilot's name and contact info, please DM me. I am pretty sure who it is but need confirmation before we engage the Bill Gilliland foundation.

 

[aviatoreb]

19 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

The smoke from Canada repaying us for our acid rain debacle was intense in MN and ND the last couple of days. Yesterday in Fargo, the sun was blocked and previous 3 days provided a training scenario in real life for my client. I am curious if this had been a factor. 

If anyone knows the fatal pilot's name and contact info, please DM me. I am pretty sure who it is but need confirmation before we engage the Bill Gilliland foundation.

 

Several weeks ago I did an approach into Valley City, ND on an intense smoke day and it was truly IMC.  Its weird how smoke reports in the aviation reports as low visibility but relatively high ceilings.  SO there you are at say 2000 ft easily seeing the ground straight down but very little forward visibility if vis is reporting say 2 or 3 mi.  That is more of a smoke scenario and necessary to stay on instruments.

[Pinecone]

Exactly.  I took off from NE MD last Friday and all the surrounding airports were reporting VFR, but one above traffic pattern altitude there was NO horizon.  The only thing you could see was almost straight down.  And once I climbed, that was even pretty much done.  The smoke/haze layer stopped at 15,000.

I filed some actual IFR, as there was no horizon reference to fly.

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

FAA ASIAS is reporting 2 dead. 
 

https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:96:26079296134955::::P96_ENTRY_DATE,P96_MAKE_NAME,P96_FATAL_FLG:15-JUN-23,MOONEY

Thanks, I have seen this, I am after contact info at this point of surviving spouse of pilot if you have that. I appreciate your efforts

[Rmnpilot]

7 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

The smoke from Canada repaying us for our acid rain debacle was intense in MN and ND the last couple of days. Yesterday in Fargo, the sun was blocked and previous 3 days provided a training scenario in real life for my client. I am curious if this had been a factor. 

If anyone knows the fatal pilot's name and contact info, please DM me. I am pretty sure who it is but need confirmation before we engage the Bill Gilliland foundation.

 

I do not know the accident pilot, but the visibility above 2000’ was sketchy.  I’m based out of KATW (north of watertown) and while it was technically MVFR/VFR in spots, the haze was bad yesterday.  
 

[mike_elliott]

Yea, I was in Park Rapids MN yesterday and the Sun was obscured most of the time.

[Echo]

Flight Aware gives a pilot owner name. Appears based in Watertown with frequent trips to north central Wisconsin. He was headed to D25 Manitowish Waters. VERY short flight. The smoke impact seems plausible. 

[Echo]

8 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Confirmed - you are right.  CBS local news affiliate has confirmed it is the registered owner of the Mooney,  William A. Buchholtz and his grandson.

https://www.cbs58.com/news/pilot-grandson-die-in-small-plane-crash-in-dodge-county

 

Very sad.  They were off for an adventure in the North Woods.  I will be following this incident closely.  I saw this plane often at D25.  Came over on final with Red over white and that power that is the IO550.  I shall miss them.  We had high levels of smoke yesterday.  Weather aps showed sunny and clear.  The potential danger obscurred on the ground as the sun was there.  Fly safe everyone.  Until I read here about obscurred vision forward with this smoke I would of been clueless to the life threatening exposure that wild fire smoke can cause.

[kortopates]

Very sad.  They were off for an adventure in the North Woods.  I will be following this incident closely.  I saw this plane often at D25.  Came over on final with Red over white and that power that is the IO550.  I shall miss them.  We had high levels of smoke yesterday.  Weather aps showed sunny and clear.  The potential danger obscurred on the ground as the sun was there.  Fly safe everyone.  Until I read here about obscurred vision forward with this smoke I would of been clueless to the life threatening exposure that wild fire smoke can cause.

You sound like you’re familiar with the area. Although there isn't a reported METAR for RYV, there is for UNU just to north that was reporting low ceiling of 300' OVC with visibility of 5 sm. The new video should a broken clouds  on their video too, presumably much later in the day. Do you think the Dodge county wx (UNU) was reasonably accurate for the departure airport RYV? 

[Ragsf15e]

After flying in the smoke for the last ~5 years out west, it’s absolutely dangerous.  Not only can the vis be at ILS minimums (i have seen this several times), but the weather reporting and forecast systems/equipment/procedures have a difficult time reporting it accurately.  You often see a forecast with “skc, 2nm FU” and it’s totally ifr, 1/2nm vis.  
 

I’ve also seen the smoke thick up to ~14000’.  You cannot count on getting above it in NA airplanes.  Flying through dense smoke can not be good for our bodies in addition to the flying considerations - which might increase the danger of flying in it.  Even the pressurized aircraft i fly for work is just pressurizing outside air.  It’s terrible until you get above it.

[Skates97]

21 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

After flying in the smoke for the last ~5 years out west, it’s absolutely dangerous.  Not only can the vis be at ILS minimums (i have seen this several times), but the weather reporting and forecast systems/equipment/procedures have a difficult time reporting it accurately.  You often see a forecast with “skc, 2nm FU” and it’s totally ifr, 1/2nm vis.  

I agree 100%.

A few years back we were leaving KTCY up near Sacramento. It was reporting clear and I think about 5 miles visibility. On the ground you could look up and see the sun and a little bit of blue. Take off and at about 1,500' AGL it transitioned to the smoke and zero forward visibility with no horizon. You could look down and still see ground straight down. It was like that for about 1,000' until on top of what was a thin layer.

It is much different than taking off into an overcast where you have a good idea where the bases are and when to get on the instruments before going in. With smoke, there doesn't seem to be a "base," the visibility just sort of melts away and if you aren't paying attention you could be in trouble quick.

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

After flying in the smoke for the last ~5 years out west, it’s absolutely dangerous.  Not only can the vis be at ILS minimums (i have seen this several times), but the weather reporting and forecast systems/equipment/procedures have a difficult time reporting it accurately.  You often see a forecast with “skc, 2nm FU” and it’s totally ifr, 1/2nm vis.  
 

I’ve also seen the smoke thick up to ~14000’.  You cannot count on getting above it in NA airplanes.  Flying through dense smoke can not be good for our bodies in addition to the flying considerations - which might increase the danger of flying in it.  Even the pressurized aircraft i fly for work is just pressurizing outside air.  It’s terrible until you get above it.

^^^^^This! Until you experience it, it’s difficult to explain how suddenly and unpredictably you will be in IMC and stuck there for a long time. I’ve actually worn an N95 mask on top of my cannula while climbing through this crap. My mechanic seemed unconcerned but appeased me with an early air filter and oil change.

[Mac80]

Had experience even in Central Missouri.

I thought was we had a low cloud layer so turned on pitot heat? Then realized it was probably smoke from wild fires.

Could not see horizon.

Reporting needs to improve to provide awareness to pilots.

Concern for visual locating other planes .

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

^^^^^This! Until you experience it, it’s difficult to explain how suddenly and unpredictably you will be in IMC and stuck there for a long time. I’ve actually worn an N95 mask on top of my cannula while climbing through this crap. My mechanic seemed unconcerned but appeased me with an early air filter and oil change.

Mask was a good idea.  There’s probably something to the early oil/filter change too because you can see the residue on the airplane after flying through it.  Mine makes little whispy brown stains around the rivets.  It comes off, but it takes some scrubbing.

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I agree 100%.

A few years back we were leaving KTCY up near Sacramento. It was reporting clear and I think about 5 miles visibility. On the ground you could look up and see the sun and a little bit of blue. Take off and at about 1,500' AGL it transitioned to the smoke and zero forward visibility with no horizon. You could look down and still see ground straight down. It was like that for about 1,000' until on top of what was a thin layer.

I had this a week ago in NE MD.  No WX at my home field, but the nearby reports were 6 miles viz.  At TPA I was IFR with no horizon.  Top of the haze was 15,000.

I logged some actual instrument.

[kortopates]

We’ve had a number of bad fires in our Sierra mountains out west here. Often You can’t top it without hitting the flight levels. The worst i recall was climbing upto FL230 to get on top. Couldn’t do the trip NA. The smoke was too dense that close to the source. Hot smoke from large fires also bring very strong turbulence as i once learned long ago - a never again moment.
Just a few weeks ago I was doing some training flights with a fellow mooneyspacer in Iowa and on our way to our destination we starting seeing visibility’s reported less than 2 sm due to the Canadian forest fires. So we diverted to a field with an ILS and shot the approach with 1 3/4 sm.
Until you’re in it, or close to it, it’s hard to believe the reported visibility is real looking out the window well above it in clear air.


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[mike_elliott]

Thanks, we will reach out to Mrs Buchholz as soon as we have her first name verification.

 

[marcusku]

These are always tough to hear about and this is no exception.  

I embarked on a very similar flight 1.5 hours earlier.  I took off from C59 to IWD.  I decided to get my instrument clearance on the ground and was glad I did since I didn't get approach until I was through the bases.  Bases at C59 were about 900' AGL (1,900 MSL) and tops were about 4,000 MSL.  Visibility below the bases was decent where I was but once on top it was quite hazy and you could not see a horizon but could see straight down to the cloud layer below.  Looks like his altitude topped out at 2,800' so based on the conditions I saw he never made it through the cloud layer.  

[mike_elliott]

The Mooney Summit, Inc's Bill Gilliland foundation has reached out to Mrs Buccholtz to offer crisis intervention and provide some financial aid. Thanks to all of you whom have participated in the Summits, made donations, sponsor and support our charity.

[Echo]

18 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Preliminary is out.  The NTSB did an exhaustive analysis in a very short time. Data shows that the plane appeared to be under pilot control and at near full power the entire time. There is a lot of detail showing a series of climbs (as much as 3,400 fpm) and dives (as much as -2,000 fpm), rolling left and rolling right.  The plane never got above 2,800 ft. Final roll to the right was 80 degrees at -11,000 fpm.  Last ADSB data point was a dive at -13,500 fpm and 211 KCAS. - the pilot had slightly recovered the right wing down roll to only 56 degrees.   Sadly, this has all the indications of Spatial Disorientation. 

"A sound spectrum analysis of recorded audio from a digital doorbell camera revealed that the engine was operating at 2,500 rpm as the airplane passed abeam the camera’s location about 28 seconds before impact. The recorded audio was consistent with the engine operating until the airplane impacted terrain."

Apparently, the cockpit frame disintegrated.  "The highly fragmented components of the cabin, cockpit, seats, aft fuselage, empennage, and right wing were found scattered throughout the wooded area on the east side of the creek."  The engine was found 333 ft from the main debris field and the engine starter motor assembly was found 730 ft from the main debris field.

Tragically for whatever reason the pilot was not able to engage the autopilot or climb a bit higher.  Cloud tops were reported to be 3,000 ft.

"At 0901:07, the airplane entered a climbing left turn toward west-northwest. At 0901:50, the airplane entered a descent from 1,734 ft msl while still in the left turn. At 0902:00, the airplane descended at 1,941 feet per minute (ft/min) with a 30° left-wing-down roll angle, as shown in Figure 2 and Figure 3. About 5 seconds later, at 0902:05, the airplane entered a climb from 1,481 ft msl while in a left turn toward west-northwest at 163 knots calibrated airspeed (KCAS)..

At 0902:22, the airplane was flying west at 133 KCAS and climbing 3,394 ft/min. About 8 seconds later, at 0902:30, the airplane was in a left turn toward southwest at 111 KCAS and climbing about 1,986 ft/min.

At 0902:44, the airplane entered a climbing right turn toward north. At 0902:53, the airplane entered a descending right turn from a maximum altitude of 2,793 ft msl. About 15 seconds later, at 0903:08, the airplane’s roll angle was about 80° right-wing-down as the airplane descended about 11,411 ft/min in a right turn toward northeast.

At 0903:10, the final recorded ADS-B data point, the airplane was flying at 211 KCAS as it descended 13,504 ft/min with a 56° right-wing-down roll angle. According to the Mooney M20R Pilot Operating Handbook, the airplane’s never exceed airspeed (VNE) was 196 KCAS. The final track point was at 1,166 ft msl and about 255 ft east-northeast of the initial impact with the ground"

Tragically for whatever reason the pilot was not able to engage the autopilot or climb a bit higher.  Cloud tops were reported to be 3,000 ft. 

https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/192369/pdf

What a tragedy.  S close to breaking out on top and giving his grandson a shot at a long life and flights with his son and grandson.  Just a $&#*ing bummer.  

[Echo]

At what point is an IFR real condition that is called VFR a willful contributing factor to a multiple fatality robbing a young man of his future?

[kortopates]

At what point is an IFR real condition that is called VFR a willful contributing factor to a multiple fatality robbing a young man of his future?

did you mean VMC?


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