Preferred Oil Analysis Lab

[RoundTwo]

At Sun-n-Fun, AvLab was offering 2 pre-paid oil analysis kits for $30. Now that Blackstone is $35 each, I’m tempted.

Thoughts?

[LANCECASPER]

5 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

At Sun-n-Fun, AvLab was offering 2 pre-paid oil analysis kits for $30. Now that Blackstone is $35 each, I’m tempted.

Thoughts?

That's a great deal - even better than the ones I've always used that used to be around $12 each (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aoakit.php?clickkey=2825763)

[kortopates]

Blackstone is worth the extra $5 and more. You can buy multiple for a discount too.

[Marc_B]

I typically use Blackstone but my last sample accidentally got sent to AOA this last time.  Blackstone has way more values tested, lists the universal averages, and a better commentary.

Blackstone:

AOA:

[RoundTwo]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Blackstone is worth the extra $5 and more. You can buy multiple for a discount too.

Can you elaborate on why they’re better and worth the extra $20?

[RoundTwo]

53 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

I typically use Blackstone but my last sample accidentally got sent to AOA this last time.  Blackstone has way more values tested, lists the universal averages, and a better commentary.

Blackstone:

AOA:

I’ve never seen an AvPro analysis. How many elements do they report on? Are any important ones left out?

[201Steve]

AvLab is best option for metallurgy analysis in chips or flakes to determine an AMS#. Black stone has more data and tries to implement it into useful commentary. 
 

Avlabs has called me several times looking for feedback, essentially a marketing call, asking what they could do better. I told them it would be really useful if they would sort out the possibilities of metal particulates in their particle testing and oil analysis, where they could have come from in the engine. In other words, have an understanding of the ams #s of common aircraft parts, per brand, etc. Cranks, cylinders, valve guides, cam shafts, etc Similar to black stone. It’s all fun and nice they give you an AMS # but that’s as far as they go. The rest of the homework is up to the user. Seems like that would be a highly useful tool to offer, but the rep did not seem understanding of, or confident that it could be implemented. Black stone for oil. 

[PT20J]

Anyone ever send samples from the same drain to both and see how the results compare?

[Utah20Gflyer]

I’ve used Blackstone since I bought my Mooney but since my sample size it one I can’t give any sort of useful commentary other to say I am satisfied with Blackstone. 

[Will.iam]

Blackstone keeps the history. When i sent my first sample in they showed me the last three samples that engine had done and what the values were. That was nice to get that history from the previous owner’s samples. 

[exM20K]

5 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

Blackstone keeps the history. When i sent my first sample in they showed me the last three samples that engine had done and what the values were. That was nice to get that history from the previous owner’s samples. 

If that is their policy, then I’ve sent my last sample to Blackstone.  My data are my data, and not theirs, nor public info.

Thanks for pointing this out.

-dan

[EricJ]

1 minute ago, exM20K said:

If that is their policy, then I’ve sent my last sample to Blackstone.  My data are my data, and not theirs, nor public info.

Thanks for pointing this out.

-dan

They can't do trend analysis if they don't keep the history.

[exM20K]

2 minutes ago, EricJ said:

They can't do trend analysis if they don't keep the history.

There is a huge difference between keeping my data on my engine in my account vs providing it to someone else. This shouldn’t be controversial. But I’m not here to argue.  Suit yourself.

-dan

[philiplane]

The main problem with Aviation Labs is the pre-paid shipping that comes with the kits. They use the goofy Fedex/USPS combo shipping. USPS picks it up from your mailbox, then Fedex takes it to the hub in Louisiana, then USPS takes it the last mile to Avlabs. This is where it goes off the rails. USPS loses plenty of samples at that point. I gave up after the fifth lost sample in 18 months. And this after occasional lost samples over two decades. I didn't get my $125 for the lost pre-paid samples back. So now I send them to Blackstone. Costs more but they haven't lost one yet. I really liked Aviation labs, used them for 25 years, and many of the planes I work on have extensive history there. But I just can't deal with the lost sample problems, when someone in Kennet Louisiana should be ensuring the samples make it the last mile. Fedex tracking shows they get to the hub, but then the trail goes cold. 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by philiplane

[1980Mooney]

7 minutes ago, exM20K said:

There is a huge difference between keeping my data on my engine in my account vs providing it to someone else. This shouldn’t be controversial. But I’m not here to argue.  Suit yourself.

-dan

So are you concerned about potential liability if you sell a plane in which the engine is making metal and you failed to disclose it?

I wonder how many people asked to see the latest oil analysis during a pre-buy? If a potential buyer asked to see your last  3-4 oil analysis along with all the other logs, would you provide them? 

[exM20K]

17 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

So are you concerned about potential liability if you sell a plane in which the engine is making metal and you failed to disclose it?

I wonder how many people asked to see the latest oil analysis during a pre-buy? If a potential buyer asked to see your last  3-4 oil analysis along with all the other logs, would you provide them? 

It’s not that complicated.  If I wish to share the data, I will.  If not, I won’t.  But whatever happens will be at my discretion because they are my data.  Again, suit yourself.

 

-dan

[Marc_B]

@exM20K both Blackstone as well as AOA had old samples from my aircraft prior to my purchase. So it’s not just Blackstone. But I’m in the camp that this is a pro, not a con. An analysis is much more helpful as a trend and much more limited in isolation. Personally if I was selling an aircraft I’d be including a copy of this for the buyer.

[mhrivnak]

1 hour ago, philiplane said:

The main problem with Aviation Labs is the pre-paid shipping that comes with the kits.

You can buy the kits with or without the pre-paid shipping. I buy without and then pay normal USPS 1st class postage, because I've also experienced the long delays (at best) of their cheap pre-paid shipping.

[mhrivnak]

2 hours ago, exM20K said:

There is a huge difference between keeping my data on my engine in my account vs providing it to someone else. This shouldn’t be controversial. But I’m not here to argue.  Suit yourself.

-dan

When I bought my plane, the prior owner had been doing oil analysis with AvLabs. It's been a few years so I forget the details, but they made me do something to demonstrate and assert that I was the new registered owner before sharing anything about the prior history on the engine. It may have been enough that when I sent a sample from my first oil change, the FAA registry had been updated and matched my contact info. In any case, they are at least particular about only sharing data with the owner of the engine or their mechanic, and they specifically told me they guard against prospective buyers fishing for information.

If you want to make sure a future owner of your engine doesn't get the data you paid for, AvLabs might be willing to delete it or at least not share it if you ask.

[alextstone]

8 hours ago, exM20K said:

If that is their policy, then I’ve sent my last sample to Blackstone.  My data are my data, and not theirs, nor public info.

Thanks for pointing this out.

-dan

That's like saying that the engine logs stay with the previous owner.

[Guest]

While we do lots of oil samples, I’ve yet to see one catch an engine problem that wasn’t in the oil filter.  In fact sometimes it causes more grief than good, chasing phantom issues when none exist.  I don’t sample any of my own engines.

[Pinecone]

I have used Blackstone almost since they were founded for my cars.  I run oil analysis for the first 50,000 or so miles.  Then figure I am ahead of the game.

I use them for my Mooney.  I called them when I purchased it and had the N number transferred to me, so I have the trend data.  It is not like they just give people the data willy nilly.

[Shadrach]

44 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

While we do lots of oil samples, I’ve yet to see one catch an engine problem that wasn’t in the oil filter.  In fact sometimes it causes more grief than good, chasing phantom issues when none exist.  I don’t sample any of my own engines.

I am a heretic as well. After over a decade of analysis, it sort of became an exercise in maintenance navel gazing. The results were typically consistent with any anomalies being minor.  As much as the idea of becoming an amateur tribologist appeals to me, I came to the conclusion that most any issue warranting a maintenance intervention would likely be obvious upstream of oil analysis.

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, exM20K said:

If that is their policy, then I’ve sent my last sample to Blackstone.  My data are my data, and not theirs, nor public info.

Thanks for pointing this out.

-dan

If you have a problem with Blackstone storing your oil analysis data, you'll explode if you ever discover all the other data on you that's available to almost any business.

[exM20K]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I am a heretic as well. After over a decade of analysis, it sort of became an exercise in maintenance navel gazing. The results were typically consistent with any anomalies being minor.  As much as the idea of becoming an amateur tribologist appeals to me, I came to the conclusion that most any issue warranting a maintenance intervention would likely be obvious upstream of oil analysis.

This and @M20Doc perfectly describe my attitude towards oil analysis.  I do it out of nostalgia and habit.  I have a continuous record (mostly), and the alerts raised have never lead to discovery of a serious issue. 
 

I maintain my airplane proactively and with a willingness to fix any airworthiness item plus a bunch of non-critical stuff. The plane is flown regularly and only by me.  Thus I’m disinterested in getting into a discussion with a subsequent owner over an elevated level of whatever, blackstone’s warning, and how I woulda shoulda or coulda done something that would have gotten ahead of a slipping starter adapter or bad cam.  

-dan