No gascolator on my 1992 201 MSE, is that normal?

[Aerospace]

Bottom line up front: I can't find anything about it when I search, but were gascolators removed from some models from the factory or as part of some STC?

My 1992 201 MSE does not have a gascolator drain in the belly, and the pull ring on the floor does not move at all when you pull on it. When I bought the plane, the seller said it was that way when he got it, and so far, no mechanics have any thing to say other than "huh, that's interesting". Plane came out of annual with no issues related to this. Anyway, I'm replacing my mechanical pump due to low and fluctuating pressure, and I am going to take the opportunity to look into this further. Maybe I will find a contraband fuel selector modification.

-----------------------------------------------------

EDIT FOR ANSWERED QUESTIONS:

• No, the factory did not eliminate the gascolator on later J models
• No, there is no STC for eliminating the gascolator.
• Elimination of the gascolator is not even heard of on Mooneys.

Bonus info: The drain hole on the belly has to be drilled, it doesn't come with the hole when you get a new belly.

Edited March 19 by Aerospace

[N201MKTurbo]

You should have this arraignment:

What is your serial number?

[N201MKTurbo]

I have one of those gascolators if you need one.

[Aerospace]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

You should have this arraignment:

What is your serial number?

Serial number is 24-3272.

[Aerospace]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Is there a hole in the pilot’s side recessed cavity panel where a gascolator drain used to be?   

No.

[M20Doc]

2 hours ago, Aerospace said:

Bottom line up front: I can't find anything about it when I search, but were gascolators removed from some models from the factory or as part of some STC?

My 1992 201 MSE does not have a gascolator drain in the belly, and the pull ring on the floor does not move at all when you pull on it. When I bought the plane, the seller said it was that way when he got it, and so far, no mechanics have any thing to say other than "huh, that's interesting". Plane came out of annual with no issues related to this. Anyway, I'm replacing my mechanical pump due to low and fluctuating pressure, and I am going to take the opportunity to look into this further. Maybe I will find a contraband fuel selector modification.

Early J models had the gascolator by the pilots feet, later models by the co pilots feet.  The fact you found the pull ring say there still one in your plane.  There should be a hole in the composite belly panel to allow you to catch the fuel from below, while using your simian arms to reach in and pull the drain ring.

Your maintainer should have disassembled it as part of the Annual, if not find new maintainer.  You’ll know they did it because it requires a few O rings to service correctly.

[Aerospace]

10 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Early J models had the gascolator by the pilots feet, later models by the co pilots feet.  The fact you found the pull ring say there still one in your plane.  There should be a hole in the composite belly panel to allow you to catch the fuel from below, while using your simian arms to reach in and pull the drain ring.

Your maintainer should have disassembled it as part of the Annual, if not find new maintainer.  You’ll know they did it because it requires a few O rings to service correctly.

"The fact you found the pull ring say there still one in your plane."

The fact that I found the pull ring only says that there once was one in my plane and it may or may not still be in there.

 

"There should be a hole in the composite belly panel to allow you to catch the fuel from below..."

There is no hole, and the ring can not be pulled.

 

"Your maintainer should have disassembled it as part of the Annual, if not find new maintainer."

This is what I am investigating. It seems that the gascolator was deleted at some point, but I have yet to be able to confirm that with my own eyes. I am inquiring here to see if gascolator delete is even heard of. My maintainer may indeed not be up to the task (none ever are but that is a different conversation.)

[M20Doc]

54 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

"The fact you found the pull ring say there still one in your plane."

The fact that I found the pull ring only says that there once was one in my plane and it may or may not still be in there.

 

"There should be a hole in the composite belly panel to allow you to catch the fuel from below..."

There is no hole, and the ring can not be pulled.

 

"Your maintainer should have disassembled it as part of the Annual, if not find new maintainer."

This is what I am investigating. It seems that the gascolator was deleted at some point, but I have yet to be able to confirm that with my own eyes. I am inquiring here to see if gascolator delete is even heard of. My maintainer may indeed not be up to the task (none ever are but that is a different conversation.)

I’ve only been doing GA maintenance for 40 years and am still learning.  Your belly panels should come off with about 24 1/4 turn Camloc fasteners.  Drop the belly off and go looking.  I’ll bet you it’s still there.

[N201MKTurbo]

54 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

"The fact you found the pull ring say there still one in your plane."

The fact that I found the pull ring only says that there once was one in my plane and it may or may not still be in there.

 

"There should be a hole in the composite belly panel to allow you to catch the fuel from below..."

There is no hole, and the ring can not be pulled.

 

"Your maintainer should have disassembled it as part of the Annual, if not find new maintainer."

This is what I am investigating. It seems that the gascolator was deleted at some point, but I have yet to be able to confirm that with my own eyes. I am inquiring here to see if gascolator delete is even heard of. My maintainer may indeed not be up to the task (none ever are but that is a different conversation.)

If you don’t have a gascolator, what is the ring hooked to? The ring hooks to the drain valve on the gascolator. If there is no hole in the belly, your belly may be filling with fuel when you pull the ring. I would think you would smell that.

[M20Doc]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

If you don’t have a gascolator, what is the ring hooked to? The ring hooks to the drain valve on the gascolator. If there is no hole in the belly, your belly may be filling with fuel when you pull the ring. I would think you would smell that.

The pull ring and plunger are likely seized from lack of use.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

The pull ring and plunger are likely seized from lack of use.

That’s what I was thinking too.

[Aerospace]

12 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That’s what I was thinking too.

I also think that is a possibility. We will see when I drop the belly. It is weird that there is no hole. I pulled really hard on the ring... with a prybar.

[M20Doc]

You need more leverage, Harbor Freight sells some really nice pry bars.

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Aerospace said:

This is what I am investigating. It seems that the gascolator was deleted at some point, but I have yet to be able to confirm that with my own eyes. I am inquiring here to see if gascolator delete is even heard of. My maintainer may indeed not be up to the task (none ever are but that is a different conversation.)

I have never heard of it being deleted.  In addition to it being the lowest point for removing condensed water from your fuel line, it is the only one that you can drain while in the air.  Additionally, your POH states that as part of your Section IV - NORMAL PROCEDURES Preflight Inspection that you should exercise the drain twice - once while selecting each fuel tank in order to flush any water out.   Therefore it is required by Mooney to be functional.

Edited March 18 by 1980Mooney

[kortopates]

I also think that is a possibility. We will see when I drop the belly. It is weird that there is no hole. I pulled really hard on the ring... with a prybar.

No hole suggest the belly pan was replaced after a gear up incident and the folks doing the repair didn’t know enough to drill the hole - they don’t come with the hole in place. Plus the owner then wasn’t particularly thorough with their pre-flights either. Probably only drained once a year at annual when disassembled. I bet you’ll find a new replacement belly pan in your airframe logs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PT20J]

Here’s what it should look like from underneath. As others have said, the ring in the cockpit attaches to the gascolator shaft, so it’s there and likely frozen from lack of use. With the belly panel off for annual inspection,  the IA probably noted that it wasn’t leaking and just ignored it. But, it should have had the screen checked and been tested. 

Skip

[M20Doc]

7 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Here’s what it should look like from underneath. As others have said, the ring in the cockpit attaches to the gascolator shaft, so it’s there and likely frozen from lack of use. With the belly panel off for annual inspection,  the IA probably noted that it wasn’t leaking and just ignored it. But, it should have had the screen checked and been tested. 

Skip

I’d bet that if the gascolator wasn’t serviced, neither was the oil suction screen or the fuel servo finger screen.

[1980Mooney]

50 minutes ago, kortopates said:

No hole suggest the belly pan was replaced after a gear up incident and the folks doing the repair didn’t know enough to drill the hole - they don’t come with the hole in place. Plus the owner then wasn’t particularly thorough with their pre-flights either. Probably only drained once a year at annual when disassembled. I bet you’ll find a new replacement belly pan in your airframe logs.

If neither the shop that repaired it, and former maintainer didn't know enough to have a hole drilled in the belly for the gas to drain - And the former owner didn't know enough to ever drain the gascolator (it would have puddled in the belly pan stinking up the cockpit - the owner would have squawked for sure) - then it seems doubtful that it was exercised/drained or cleaned at annual. 

@Aerospace - Echoing @PT20J and @M20Doc who who typing faster than me, since you have the shaft on the gascolator and pull ring then it must be still installed.   It may be seized from trapped water and debris which led to corrosion.  

Quite frankly I would not fly it until you have someone qualified pull the belly pan and verifies that the gascolator screen is clean and the cup is free of water and debris.

This Shaw Aero - Gerdes type A-1540-3 gascolator out of a M20K is the same one used on the M20J - see images ( I am not posting images because of limited size on this site)

A-1540-3 Mooney M20K Gerdes Gascolator Assembly (baspartsales.com)

Edited March 18 by 1980Mooney

[M20Doc]

Depending on which gascolator is installed, it will use some of these seals.  They should appear on the invoice for your annual.

[Aerospace]

48 minutes ago, kortopates said:

No hole suggest the belly pan was replaced after a gear up incident and the folks doing the repair didn’t know enough to drill the hole - they don’t come with the hole in place. Plus the owner then wasn’t particularly thorough with their pre-flights either. Probably only drained once a year at annual when disassembled. I bet you’ll find a new replacement belly pan in your airframe logs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

You need more leverage, Harbor Freight sells some really nice pry bars.

 They do have those don't they!

In all seriousness, I don't want to pull any harder without seeing what is under there.

I was thinking that is simply stuck from disuse so I put my 2nd smallest Matco prybar through the ring, then used a piece of steel plate to put the tip of the bar on so it wouldn't put too much pressure on the floor (spread it out a bit). I pulled up with more force than I was able to do with my finger in the ring, but was still fairly conservative, not going to do more than that.

[Aerospace]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

I have never heard of it being deleted.  In addition to it being the lowest point for removing condensed water from your fuel line, it is the only one that you can drain while in the air.  Additionally, your POH states that as part of your Section IV - NORMAL PROCEDURES Preflight Inspection that you should exercise the drain twice - once while selecting each fuel tank in order to flush any water out.   Therefore it is required by Mooney to be functional.

Yep, thus my question if there is some kind of STC for this and my speculation of a possible contraband modification. I am looking in to this because I can tell it's not right. I have read all of the materials, logs, manuals, schematics, and everything, I have asked several mechanics at multiple shops as well as freelance. I did all of that first before asking. I even used the search function lol.

[Aerospace]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

No hole suggest the belly pan was replaced after a gear up incident and the folks doing the repair didn’t know enough to drill the hole - they don’t come with the hole in place. Plus the owner then wasn’t particularly thorough with their pre-flights either. Probably only drained once a year at annual when disassembled. I bet you’ll find a new replacement belly pan in your airframe logs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did not know that they did not come with a hole, thanks for that. I am really curious as to what I find.

What you say sounds very plausible. I have read every word in the logs, which are complete, and do not remember seeing any new belly or documented damage history. However, I know that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Aerospace]

20 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Quite frankly I would not fly it until ...

I'm not flying it until this is sorted.

[M20Doc]

1 minute ago, Aerospace said:

 They do have those don't they!

In all seriousness, I don't want to pull any harder without seeing what is under there.

I was thinking that is simply stuck from disuse so I put my 2nd smallest Matco prybar through the ring, then used a piece of steel plate to put the tip of the bar on so it wouldn't put too much pressure on the floor (spread it out a bit). I pulled up with more force than I was able to do with my finger in the ring, but was still fairly conservative, not going to do more than that.

All kidding aside, these parts are not easy to come by.  Safest bet is to drop the belly panel, turn off the fuel selector, cut the safety wire, undo the nut from the bottom of the gascolator( the fuel in it will spill out) grasp the bowl by hand twist and pull it down.  The plunger shaft is likely seized in the top mounting plate.  Before you start, trickle some penetrating oil down the shaft from the cockpit side.

The O rings and seals you need should be standard at any good shop.

[Aerospace]

7 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Depending on which gascolator is installed, it will use some of these seals.  They should appear on the invoice for your annual.

Awesome, I'll look now!