Questions about a 1963 C

[bcg]

I've got a 1963 C, as the title indicates, and there are some things I haven't been able to find that I'm hoping you folks can help me with.  I'm scheduled for a check ride in a little over a week and I know these are questions that I'll probably get asked.

First, is there an alternate static air port in the cockpit anywhere on these older models?  I can't seem to find anything and I've crawled around under the panel some running wires.

Next, I don't see an ELT switch in my panel anywhere.  Was it common for there to be one in these older models or was that something that came about later?

There's one other thing I of course can't remember just now...I hate it when that happens.

While we're at it, I'm wondering how most of you do your climb out?  I've been setting the prop to full forward (2700 RPM), mixture mostly in (field elevation is 1,600 so full rich is a little too rich) and full throttle for take off and climbing at Vx to 1,000 AGL.  At that point, I'm reducing the prop to 2400 - 2500 RPM and pitching for 100 - 105 for the rest of the climb and begin leaning at about 4,000 MSL.  My speeds are in MPH because that's whats in my AFM/POH and how my gauges are marked.  This is keeping my CHT right around 400 and I typically still get a 500 - 700 FPM climb.

 

[Greg Ellis]

Your title says a 1953 C, not 63 but we get it.  There is no alternate air in the cockpit on my 1963 C model.  Also, when I bought my C model 17 years ago, there was no ELT switch in the panel.  I have since had one installed when I upgraded the ELT a few years ago but originally mine did not have one either.

My climb is a bit different than yours.  I do not pull the prop back, nor do I pull the throttle back until I am leveling off at whatever altitude I am leveling off at.  I do have to lean a bit as I climb and prior to 4000 feet because I have the richer version of the carburetors that were available for our engine and to avoid running a little rough in the climb with an overly rich mixture I have to begin leaning sooner than 4000 feet MSL.

By keeping my prop and throttle full, I can climb at a shallower angle at a higher airspeed and my cylinders stay below 400 in the climb unless it is just a blistering hot Texas day.

[KLRDMD]

47 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

Your title says a 1953 C, not 63 but we get it.  There is no alternate air in the cockpit on my 1963 C model.  Also, when I bought my C model 17 years ago, there was no ELT switch in the panel.  I have since had one installed when I upgraded the ELT a few years ago but originally mine did not have one either.

My climb is a bit different than yours.  I do not pull the prop back, nor do I pull the throttle back until I am leveling off at whatever altitude I am leveling off at.  I do have to lean a bit as I climb and prior to 4000 feet because I have the richer version of the carburetors that were available for our engine and to avoid running a little rough in the climb with an overly rich mixture I have to begin leaning sooner than 4000 feet MSL.

By keeping my prop and throttle full, I can climb at a shallower angle at a higher airspeed and my cylinders stay below 400 in the climb unless it is just a blistering hot Texas day.

It was 17 years ago that you bought your Mooney? Wow, time flies.

Run your C model the way Greg suggests and you'll do fine.

[bcg]

Your title says a 1953 C, not 63 but we get it.  There is no alternate air in the cockpit on my 1963 C model.  Also, when I bought my C model 17 years ago, there was no ELT switch in the panel.  I have since had one installed when I upgraded the ELT a few years ago but originally mine did not have one either.
My climb is a bit different than yours.  I do not pull the prop back, nor do I pull the throttle back until I am leveling off at whatever altitude I am leveling off at.  I do have to lean a bit as I climb and prior to 4000 feet because I have the richer version of the carburetors that were available for our engine and to avoid running a little rough in the climb with an overly rich mixture I have to begin leaning sooner than 4000 feet MSL.
By keeping my prop and throttle full, I can climb at a shallower angle at a higher airspeed and my cylinders stay below 400 in the climb unless it is just a blistering hot Texas day.

I fixed the title, fat fingers.

I started pulling the prop because the AFM suggests 24/24 for climb. I figure lower RPM isn't going to hurt the engine. When summer gets here though, I may have to go back to 2700 for the duration of the climb.

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[Greg Ellis]

24 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

It was 17 years ago that you bought your Mooney? Wow, time flies.

Run your C model the way Greg suggests and you'll do fine.

Yep.  And looking at my logbooks it was actually 18 years ago.  February, 12, 2005 was my first flight in my Mooney. I followed your advice and never looked back.  I thank you for helping me make that decision so long ago that has brought so much happiness and excitement and fond memories into my life.

[Rjfanjet]

I climb with 2500 and cruise with 2400 RPM. WOT til I get to cruise then pull throttle back just enough to see the MP needle wiggle. But I start at 4200 MSL.

[Hank]

I bought my C in 2007. All three levers go fully forward for takeoff and climb. Initial climb is at Vx (~85mph), then I climb to cruise altitude at Vy = 100 mph - Altitude. Works well.

I'm not aware if alternate static in the cockpit, but there are static ports on both sides of the fuselage. 

My ELT includes a panel switch, on the right side.

[hammdo]

My panel has so many updates - my ELT switch is on the panel, no alt static system.

I climb full throttle and full RPM, above 5000 start leaning. I have an engine monitor so I keep EGTs 1250-1280 during climb (that is my takeoff EGTs), kept CHTS 400 and below…

That seems to work for me…

-Don

[47U]

Based at ERV… I RON’d at ERV about 10 years ago when my in-laws lived in Bandera.  

What model ELT do you have?  I had a portable EBC mounted to the sidewall behind the pilot’t seat, which I switched out for an ACK 406 MHz mounted on the equipment rack in the tail.  The ACK came with a panel mounted control panel.  

On climb out, after gear retraction, I set the RPM to 2650, full throttle and mixture.  On a hot day (>100), I accelerate to 120 mph for climb to keep the CHTs mostly below 400, mostly.  The mx manual for the D model specs 2.4” opening on the cowl flaps, vs 1.1” for the C.  When I got my C in 2008 the cowl flaps were set to the D spec, so I reset them to the C spec.  This was before I installed the UBG-16.  After seeing actual CHTs on the UBG, I started accelerating to 120+ mph for CHT management.

When I replaced my mixture cable 5 or 6 years ago, I discovered interference at full mixture between the arm and the throttle cable support bracket.  I’m still getting close to 17 gph fuel flow at full throttle on take off, but I wonder if I had that extra few thousandths throw, how much extra fuel flow would that be?  Mooney later changed the throttle support bracket to mount at the top only, the lower mount was eliminated, I think because of the interference.  I suppose a later model throttle support cable bracket could be retrofitted, if the motivation were there.  If someone is looking for more fuel flow at full throttle/mixture, this might be something to check.

 

[bcg]

We live in Bandera, off 470 going towards Tarpley.

I'm honestly not sure which ELT I have, it's in the tail though.

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[47U]

I’m no ELT expert… but it would seem that even older 121.5 beacons that are remote mounted would have a control panel in the cockpit.  Might be worth some research to see what you have and if an upgrade is warranted.

I was in Bandera weekend before last, took my wife out to the Stanislaus cemetery where her mom and dad are interned.  Oldest son lives in Boerne and got married at Tapatio Springs.  The Hill Country is beautiful this time of year.

Aerial view of ERT, courtesy of Delta on the approach to SAT.

 

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, bcg said:

I started pulling the prop because the AFM suggests 24/24 for climb. I figure lower RPM isn't going to hurt the engine. When summer gets here though, I may have to go back to 2700 for the duration of the climb.

Many with normally-aspirated engines run wide-open throttle during takeoff, climb, and cruise, only pulling it back for approach and landing.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Many with normally-aspirated engines run wide-open throttle during takeoff, climb, and cruise, only pulling it back for approach and landing.

This works better on fuel injected engines. With our carbs, pulling the throttle back until the MP needle wiggles helps with fuel atomization and better fuel-air mixing. Then lean as desired.

Also, for our O-360s, the Key Number is 46. Just add the numbers from MP and Tach. I.e., at 3000 msl I run 23"/2300, and at 8-10K I use 20"/2500 (or as close as i can get to 20").

[Utah20Gflyer]

I run 2700 rpm and almost full rich at 100 mph until I hit 1000 agl.  Then I usually go to 2500 rpm and leaned at 120 mph for the cruise climb.  Once at cruise altitude 2400 rpm and leaned out as much as possible.  I run full throttle almost all the time other than approaching an airport and landing. 

I don’t have any alt air, although my plane has two static ports across from each other in the tail.

[C.J.]

16 hours ago, bcg said:

While we're at it, I'm wondering how most of you do your climb out?  

 

All 3 full forward to 1000' AGL, then power back to 25"/2500 accelerating to 120mph, full rich to 5000' MSL, lean in climb as req'd after with CHT no greater than 400*F. 

KMRN is 1270 MSL, usual TOGW is 2200 lbs, ROC is typically 800 fpm @ 120mph for my '65C with Power Flow exhaust.

No alt static source or panel mounted ELT switches installed

[Pinecone]

Reducing RPM and MP is old school.  

Times change.

[Hank]

25 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Reducing RPM and MP is old school.  

Times change.

That's right. Full power to cruise altitude. Look up "Target EGT" for proper leaning in the climb.

[pirate]

I purchased my 70 C back in 1995.

When I started the first refurbishing I replaced the ELT mounted in my tail, it  had no accommodations for a remote switch. 

Not sure about your year but my alternate static source is mounted under the pilot side panel near my left knee. 

During warm months I use to climb 25/25 but stopped that back in the early 2000’s.  Only when it’s really cold outside I’ll reduce power as needed. 

 

 

[Rusty Pilot]

On 3/15/2023 at 7:53 AM, bcg said:

I've got a 1963 C, as the title indicates, and there are some things I haven't been able to find that I'm hoping you folks can help me with.  I'm scheduled for a check ride in a little over a week and I know these are questions that I'll probably get asked.

First, is there an alternate static air port in the cockpit anywhere on these older models?  I can't seem to find anything and I've crawled around under the panel some running wires.

Next, I don't see an ELT switch in my panel anywhere.  Was it common for there to be one in these older models or was that something that came about later?

There's one other thing I of course can't remember just now...I hate it when that happens.

While we're at it, I'm wondering how most of you do your climb out?  I've been setting the prop to full forward (2700 RPM), mixture mostly in (field elevation is 1,600 so full rich is a little too rich) and full throttle for take off and climbing at Vx to 1,000 AGL.  At that point, I'm reducing the prop to 2400 - 2500 RPM and pitching for 100 - 105 for the rest of the climb and begin leaning at about 4,000 MSL.  My speeds are in MPH because that's whats in my AFM/POH and how my gauges are marked.  This is keeping my CHT right around 400 and I typically still get a 500 - 700 FPM climb.

 

I have a 1974 C model.  My alternate static source is under the panel on the pilot side with a valve.  It is best to look for it on the ground and feel for it in the air.