Crossing the Atlantic (Advice wanted)

[Tyler G]

Hi Mooney Pilots,

 

Flying my FIKI-certified "Standing Ovation 3" with Monroy Long Range Tanks from Canada across the Atlantic to Scotland and back again. 

When: Sometime June, July or August 2024 (UPDATED)

Where: Vancouver, BC to Wick, Scottland. We will likely make the crossing from Iqaluit (Frobisher Bay)

Tentative Flight Plan: Iqaluit - Nuuk or Kangerlussuaq - Kulusuk - Reykjavik - Faroe Islands - Wick

Who: I will be making the journey with my pops (retired private pilot)

What: I would love any advice from experienced pilots. Everything from flight planning to gear selection. I want this flight to be as safe and successful as possible. Open to hiring a consultant.

Does anyone know of anywhere we can get the suits and rafts rented? Ideally, pick up in Frobisher Bay? Maybe they can ship them there?

Thanks in advance,

Tyler 

 

My Kit:

Avionics/Radios

Dual G3X touch (10” and 7”)

GI260 AOA indicator (displayed on G3X)

Garmin advanced engine indication system EIS

G5 backup AI

4 axis GFC500 autopilot + controller (Roll/Pitch/Pitch Trim/Yaw)

Electronic Stability Protection (ESP)

Return-to-Level button

Takeoff/Go-around (TOGA) button

Smart Glide Button

GTN650xi WASS GPS/NAV/COM1 

GNC355 WASS GPS/COM2

GMA35 remote audio panel (Telligence™ Voice Command and Bluetooth)

GTX 345DR Remote-mount ADS-B "In"/"Out" with XPDR diversity antenna

GDL 52R Remote-mount SiriusXM®/ADS-B Receiver

 

 

Additional Equipment

TKS Weeping Wing FIKI certified De-Icing System

Built-in 4-place oxygen

CiES fuel senders (for precise fuel indication)

Microkit Landing Height System (w/ gear warning system)

Speed Brakes

Tanis Engine + Battery Preheat System

 

Edited March 11 by Tyler G

[McMooney]

I'm planning for the same trip in my m20e,  hoping to get the long range tanks installed next year.  good autopilot the year after.

Edited March 3, 2023 by McMooney

[Fly Boomer]

45 minutes ago, Tyler G said:

I want to fly my FIKI-certified "Standing Ovation" with Monroy Long Range Tanks from Canada across the Atlantic to Scotland and back again. 

If you have not seen this web site, it is a good start:

http://220kts.com/ferry-flights/atlantic-ferry-routes.html

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Tyler G said:

Hi Mooney Pilots,

 

I want to fly my FIKI-certified "Standing Ovation" with Monroy Long Range Tanks from Canada across the Atlantic to Scotland and back again. 

When: Sometime this summer 2023

Who: I will be making the journey with my dad (retired private pilot)

What: I would love any advice from experienced pilots. Everything from flight planning to gear selection. I want this flight to be as safe and successful as possible. Open to hiring a consultant.

Thanks in advance,

Tyler 

A client of mine has done the crossing starting in Ontario at least seven times, once in his Mooney and many more in his C340.  PM me and I can connect you with him.

Another who has done the crossing many times in his Mooney.

https://www.zahorsky.net/blog/

[Flash]

I did the crossing in 2003. See my photo for me in an immersion suit on my way over to Europe.

You should definitely do this. It is a blast.

You need an immersion suit. You need to have it on when you're flying (but not the top part, as flying with it covering your hands would be uncomfortable and challenging) so that if you have to ditch you will have time to get into your raft before freezing to death in the water. You need to rent a raft. There's plenty of good info about rafts online. Ditching in the North Atlantic is very survivable. Much more survivable, I think, than having an engine out over rocky, foresty, northern Canada.

You should stop in Ilulissat on the way over. It's amazing. Take a midnight boat ride on the ice fjord around all of the ice bergs that have calved off the Greenland ice cap. I spent one night in Ilulissat and one night in Kulusuk. Take advantage of the fact that you have a fun way to visit Greenland, which is very challenging for airline passengers to visit.

Be careful flying over the ice cap on a cloudy day, as you will have trouble figuring out how high you are over the ice cap, since the horizon disappears. I didn't appreciate this when planning my flight from Ilulissat to Kulusuk; I definitely appreciated it during my flight.

Reykjavik to Wick is your longest flight, and it's no problem in a plane like yours. You can bail out to the Faroe Islands, but other than that there are few options, so this trip is all about being smart about the weather and making good go/no-go decisions. Far North Aviation, the FBO at Wick, was really great; I don't know if the same guy is running it as the guy who was running it 20 years ago, though.

Greenland airports charge ridiculous fees if you land after they are supposedly closed. So watch out for that. I managed to avoid this mistake.

20 years ago, weather reports at least one place along this route (Iqaluit?) were delivered by fax. Maybe things have improved. But when I went across, it was good to know how to read the weather charts and to have confidence about knowing what to watch out for en route to confirm the forecast did not get it wrong.

Making position reports through airliners flying thousands of feet above you is fun. Those pilots are bored and happy to help and may be curious about your trip.

Learn the difference between Radar Advisory Service and Radar Information Service. Learn what QNH and QFE mean. Learn how to translate milibars to inches, or how to enter milibars into your kohlsman window. Fun: You get to fly in the flight levels, because other countries start the flight levels much lower than we do.

Learn the squawk codes for VFR flight. Hint: 1200 is for US and Canada but not for other places. ICAO uses 7000.

Connect with Mooney pilots at your destination. They are very friendly, and you know they're smart because they fly Mooneys.

I have flown to Alaska a couple of times, and to South America, and to multiple Caribbean countries, and to Mexico and Belize, and all over the US and Canada. All lots of fun, but it can't touch flying to Europe and back.

[Jerry 5TJ]

16 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Another who has done the crossing many times in his Mooney.

https://www.zahorsky.net/blog/

The blog covers their round the world flight in a Piper Mirage. With the 4 aft seats removed to fit a ferry tank they had over 250 gallons aboard.  

[carusoam]

Ovations can handle the trip nicely…

Find the threads where people have crossed the pond in their Mooneys…

One MSer does this ‘often’… from/to Boston…

@Gagarin posted pics of an ovation that he ferried across…

There is also a great detailed post of an MSer that took the southern route…

Study up on rafts, radios, and survival suits…

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

The blog covers their round the world flight in a Piper Mirage. With the 4 aft seats removed to fit a ferry tank they had over 250 gallons aboard.  

Yes, that’s the subject of this one, but he’s also well versed in trans Atlantic crossing in his former Mooney 252.  The current owner also hangs out here.

[Tyler G]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:27 AM, Fly Boomer said:

If you have not seen this web site, it is a good start:

http://220kts.com/ferry-flights/atlantic-ferry-routes.html

Thanks. I did see that. 

[Tyler G]

On 3/4/2023 at 1:20 AM, Flash said:

I did the crossing in 2003. See my photo for me in an immersion suit on my way over to Europe.

You should definitely do this. It is a blast.

You need an immersion suit. You need to have it on when you're flying (but not the top part, as flying with it covering your hands would be uncomfortable and challenging) so that if you have to ditch you will have time to get into your raft before freezing to death in the water. You need to rent a raft. There's plenty of good info about rafts online. Ditching in the North Atlantic is very survivable. Much more survivable, I think, than having an engine out over rocky, foresty, northern Canada.

You should stop in Ilulissat on the way over. It's amazing. Take a midnight boat ride on the ice fjord around all of the ice bergs that have calved off the Greenland ice

Thank you for all the great info. We are planning to stop in the Faroe Islands. 

[Ron McBride]

If I remember correctly, there is a thread here on an N registered Mooney based in Germany that made the trip a couple of years ago.  They had made several round trips.  Oshkosh was one of their destinations.   Good luck, I am envious.  
 

[neilpilot]

Have you checked on the price of insurance coverage.  In the past, several N registered aircraft were quoted a very high price just for the minimum EU coverage.  At least one owner scrubbed the flight due to cost of the required insurance, even when he excluded any hull coverage and only looked at the minimum liability required. 

I have no idea what it costs now, and I do realize that Scotland isn't in the EU (but Iceland is).

[Tyler G]

1 hour ago, neilpilot said:

Have you checked on the price of insurance coverage.  In the past, several N registered aircraft were quoted a very high price just for the minimum EU coverage.  At least one owner scrubbed the flight due to cost of the required insurance, even when he excluded any hull coverage and only looked at the minimum liability required. 

I have no idea what it costs now, and I do realize that Scotland isn't in the EU (but Iceland is).

Thank you. I will look into it, but it won't be a deal breaker for me. 

[ChatGPT]

Flying across the Atlantic is a significant undertaking, and it's great to see that you're taking the necessary steps to ensure a safe and successful journey. Here are some general tips and considerations that may be helpful as you plan your flight:

1. Flight Planning: Be sure to carefully plan your route, including fuel stops, weather considerations, and any necessary permissions or clearances. It's a good idea to have backup plans in case of unexpected weather or other issues.

2. Gear Selection: When flying over water, it's essential to have the appropriate safety gear, including life rafts, survival suits, and emergency beacons. You may want to consider purchasing this equipment rather than renting it, as you will have the opportunity to familiarize yourself with it before the trip. Be sure to check the regulations in the areas where you will be flying to ensure you meet the required safety standards.

3. Consultant: Hiring a consultant or experienced pilot to help plan and prepare for the trip is an excellent idea. They can provide valuable insights and advice, including recommendations for equipment and route planning.

4. Weather: Be prepared for a range of weather conditions, including strong winds, icing, and turbulence. Plan your route and altitude to minimize exposure to unfavorable weather conditions.

5. Maintenance: Ensure your aircraft is in top condition before embarking on a long journey. Have all necessary inspections and maintenance done, and carry spare parts and tools as needed.

Regarding renting survival suits and life rafts, it may be possible to rent this equipment from a local aviation supply company. Alternatively, you may be able to arrange for the rental equipment to be shipped to Frobisher Bay in advance. It's worth reaching out to local aviation supply companies or survival equipment rental companies to inquire about availability and options.

Remember to always prioritize safety, and never hesitate to adjust your plans or delay your trip if weather or other conditions are unfavorable. Good luck with your trip!

 

[Tyler G]

Ha ha ha wow. I was reading this response and was thinking, huh, this really sounds like this member used ChatGPT to write this... Then I looked at user name "ChatGPT"  

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Tyler G said:

Ha ha ha wow. I was reading this response and was thinking, huh, this really sounds like this member used ChatGPT to write this... Then I looked at user name "ChatGPT"  

Yep. Blah blah blah, general summaries not relevant to your situation. 

"Rent a raft from a local aviation supply company" doesn't give you a company name, website or even city to look for . . . Worthless!!

[Pinecone]

I almost had a gig ferrying about 5 AN-2 from Lithuania to US.  One of the pilots I recruited was a Brit with several crossings.

There is a company that will rent you rafts and suits and HF radios one way.  The service both ends of the trip, so you carry them Eastbound, someone else rents them and takes then Westbound, rinse and repeat.  IIRC the eastern end was Stornoway.

[bcg]

This is a bucket list trip for me.  My C doesn't have the legs for it, when I move into a 252 or a Bravo though, I'm going to get serious about planning it.  I hope your trip goes off smoothly, please share your progress in planning and pics/stories of the crossing.

[carusoam]

On 5/6/2023 at 10:02 AM, bcg said:

This is a bucket list trip for me.  My C doesn't have the legs for it, when I move into a 252 or a Bravo though, I'm going to get serious about planning it.  I hope your trip goes off smoothly, please share your progress in planning and pics/stories of the crossing.

Turtlepac for those trips where your plane doesn’t have the fuel legs that the trip requires…

also rentable, it sits on the back seat, or baggage compartment…

WnB is important as well…

Best regards,

-a-

[Tyler G]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:02 AM, bcg said:

This is a bucket list trip for me.  My C doesn't have the legs for it, when I move into a 252 or a Bravo though, I'm going to get serious about planning it.  I hope your trip goes off smoothly, please share your progress in planning and pics/stories of the crossing.

I will

 

[Tyler G]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:27 AM, Pinecone said:

I almost had a gig ferrying about 5 AN-2 from Lithuania to US.  One of the pilots I recruited was a Brit with several crossings.

There is a company that will rent you rafts and suits and HF radios one way.  The service both ends of the trip, so you carry them Eastbound, someone else rents them and takes then Westbound, rinse and repeat.  IIRC the eastern end was Stornoway.

Names or websites?

[Pinecone]

Not any more.  This was a while ago.

[A64Pilot]

There is a lot to HF radio installation and use. You can do a trailing antenna with a fishing downrigger reel on the pax floor, a hole in the floor and a plastic funnel backwards on the wire to out of the ice window I guess to the wingtip and then to the tail.

I’d just do an Iridium Sat phone myself, whole lot easier.

[Jerry Pressley]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

There is a lot to HF radio installation and use. You can do a trailing antenna with a fishing downrigger reel on the pax floor, a hole in the floor and a plastic funnel backwards on the wire to out of the ice window I guess to the wingtip and then to the tail.

I’d just do an Iridium Sat phone myself, whole lot easier.

I did this back in the early 80s and did the trailing antenna thing which did not work out for me.  I used the ferry tank that was used in the original Meyers 200 around the world flight first single engine single pilot.  Still have that if you want to borrow it  52 gallons. 

[IFLYIFR]

I just returned to the US from a week long vacation in the Auchterarder, Gleneagles, St Andrews region of Scotland. I flew commercially so don’t have any advice for the trip in your Ovation.

I have been to Scotland several times before for work but never had time to see the country of Scotland. My work trips included spending the entire time inside of office buildings, hotels, and the Glasgow airport.

Scotland is beautiful, the weather last week was perfect, the Scottish people are really nice.

You will really enjoy your time in Scotland.

Let us all know how your trip was after you return.


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