Are sea-sick patches against the rules?

[Mcstealth]

I have motion sickness. All my siblings do.(thanks Mom)  

Is the patch that goes behind the ear a no-no for private pilots? 

[ArtVandelay]

I would try it while at home. They made me feel sick.

[ilovecornfields]

No go.

”A very effective drug, scopolamine, (Transderm Scop) is worn behind the ear as a time-released prescription drug that's effective for up to three days. Visual disturbances and even some mental side effects can result from the use of scopolamine, so it, too, is prohibited by the FAA, as are promethazine (Phenergan) and trimethobenzamide (Tigan).”

 

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/health-conditions/ear-nose-throat-and-equilibrium/motion-sickness

[RideOrFly]

No way I would fly with or recommend flying with scopolamine. It can cause visual disturbances, sedation, and (rare) neuropsychiatric side effects.

[Hank]

Sporty's and others sell a wristband that is supposed to be effective. Since I am rarely bothered by motion (but did feel funny in an Audi RS5 launch), I can't vouch for its effectiveness. 

[A64Pilot]

11 hours ago, Hank said:

Sporty's and others sell a wristband that is supposed to be effective. Since I am rarely bothered by motion (but did feel funny in an Audi RS5 launch), I can't vouch for its effectiveness. 

We lived aboard and sailed the Caribbean for a few years and the Wife would get sea sick. Dramamine or any other drug available in the US even the non drowsy formula just meant she spent the crossings unconscious down below.

The electric wrist band did help some, not a cure but it helped. Ginger seemed to help some, I kept ginger beer in the fridge, no alcohol sort of a strange tasting root beer.

Supposedly ginger snaps help, but who want to eat cookies when they feel like they are going to puke?

The best thing we found was Stugeron, a seasickness drug not available in the US, but has been in the rest of the world for a long time, you can order it on Ebay,  I’m no Dr but am nearly certain it’s a no-go for the pilot, I doubt any drug is legit for the pilot.

Way back when I first started flying TH-55’s at Ft Rucker I would almost throw up, did and swallowed it a few times, if you puked it would be a Precautionary landing and likely an end to flight training. My Instructor told me to get and take Dramamine and I’d get over the motion sickness with exposure, he was right I got over it and wasn’t taking it anymore prior to Solo. Dramamine was of course grounding so it had to be kept secret. I think it was the unnatural motions a helicopter was capable of as well as being in a glass bubble because airplane flying didn’t bother me.

Wife with exposure got over being seasick and didn’t have to take the Stugeron after awhile.

I think that’s the secret, exposure, you need to fly every day as much as possible and you will get over it.

Oh and I was told to eat bananas before flying, not that they keep you from getting sick, but because they don’t taste so bad when you have to swallow it after it comes up.

[Hank]

32 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

The electric wrist band did help some, not a cure but it helped. . .

Oh and I was told to eat bananas before flying, not that they keep you from getting sick, but because they don’t taste so bad when you have to swallow it after it comes up.

I've not heard of the electric wrist bands, the ones I've seen fit snugly with a bump on the inside of your wrist to press on a particular nerve.

As for bananas, I always heard to eat them because they taste the same coming up as they did going down . . . .

[Pinecone]

In the 90s I had a group of guys that did the civilian air combat thing at Sky Warriors, at FTY, in T-34s.  Of course, only doing aerobatics/air combat once a year, you will not handle it well.

The transderm scop patches came out and worked great.  None of my group had any side effects and it stopped the airsickness, even the queasiness, so they could seriously fly.

I even used them (I was NOT PIC for those flights).  And had no issues.

At the time, they were over the counter.   They got pulled, then later came back as prescription only, due to publicized issues.  But most of them were during long term continuous use.  One was with the USNA where some long distance sailors wore them continuously for something like 10 days.  The instructions said to remove the patch after a couple of days and not apply a new one for 24 hours. 

[Mcstealth]

What about Ondansetron? It's been described to me as an anti-throwup pill. Anyone have experience with this medicine? 

[DonMuncy]

It is helpful, but I have only taken it when I was ill, so no idea how it would work for flying.

[A64Pilot]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I've not heard of the electric wrist bands, the ones I've seen fit snugly with a bump on the inside of your wrist to press on a particular nerve.

As for bananas, I always heard to eat them because they taste the same coming up as they did going down . . . .

These are electric, years ago you could change the battery, then you had to buy a new one whenever the battery died, now I see one is rechargeable, I didn’t look but bet it’s $$$

https://www.reliefband.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA9NGfBhBvEiwAq5vSy7Pfi6x21GVT5JNJUAbYKEeRjh2gLV4Qz5c138xml4PvWdqcPYwDQBoCj48QAvD_BwE

Really did seem to help the Wife, maybe it was all in her head but I don’t think so.

I think anyone who gets nausea should avoid IMC as just a guess but if your inner ear is making you sick, maybe you’re more likely to get spatial illusions than normal in IMC?

Yes, that’s exactly why I was told to eat bananas, but as a WOC I could only eat at the Mess Hall, “square meals” so no bananas 

[ilovecornfields]

40 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

What about Ondansetron? It's been described to me as an anti-throwup pill. Anyone have experience with this medicine? 

Not sure what you mean by “experience.” I probably order it a dozen times a day but I’ve never used it for flying. It’s usually considered a nausea medicine, not really for motion sickness. Different receptors.
 

There was a case report about using it for motion sickness and another one where they gave it to pilots in an F-16 simulator and they seemed to do fine. That being said, if you feel like throwing up or if you need meds not to then you probably shouldn’t be piloting an aircraft. Seems like adhering to the IMSAFE checklist precludes taking a bunch of meds.

https://www.airmedicaljournal.com/article/S1067-991X(02)70038-2/fulltext

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9383499/

[Hank]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

Not sure what you mean by “experience.” I probably order it a dozen times a day but I’ve never used it for flying. It’s usually considered a nausea medicine, not really for motion sickness. Different receptors.
 

There was a case report about using it for motion sickness and another one where they gave it to pilots in an F-16 simulator and they seemed to do fine. That being said, if you feel like throwing up or if you need meds not to then you probably shouldn’t be piloting an aircraft. Seems like adhering to the IMSAFE checklist precludes taking a bunch of meds.

https://www.airmedicaljournal.com/article/S1067-991X(02)70038-2/fulltext

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9383499/

My understanding of the request for experience with this drug was, has anyone here actually taken it, how did it work, what were the side effects, etc. Not "I prescribed this for a bunch of people," but "this is what happened to me when I took it."

I'm generally not motion sensitive, but know people who were at different points in their pilot training. Telling them, "sorry you got motion sickness, you just need to not fly" is not very helpful. Especially when the subject is the partner of a pilot, wanting to travel somewhere together. "Hey, honey. Enjoy your 9 hour drive to the beach, I'll fly myself down and be waiting with a cold drink when you finally arrive" would not go over well at my house!

[ilovecornfields]

13 minutes ago, Hank said:

My understanding of the request for experience with this drug was, has anyone here actually taken it, how did it work, what were the side effects, etc. Not "I prescribed this for a bunch of people," but "this is what happened to me when I took it."

I'm generally not motion sensitive, but know people who were at different points in their pilot training. Telling them, "sorry you got motion sickness, you just need to not fly" is not very helpful. Especially when the subject is the partner of a pilot, wanting to travel somewhere together. "Hey, honey. Enjoy your 9 hour drive to the beach, I'll fly myself down and be waiting with a cold drink when you finally arrive" would not go over well at my house!

Sorry to disappoint. I’ve taken zofran several times before and have directly observed thousands of people who received this medication ranging in age from 6 months to 100 years old. I’m anxiously awaiting the “here is what happened to me when I took it” stories as well. Maybe I’ll learn something. Getting medial advice on the internet about prescription drug use based on personal experiences always seems like a good idea.

[Hank]

29 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Sorry to disappoint. I’ve taken zofran several times before and have directly observed thousands of people who received this medication ranging in age from 6 months to 100 years old. I’m anxiously awaiting the “here is what happened to me when I took it” stories as well. Maybe I’ll learn something.

So you have no direct experience with the side effects? You also didn't report any side effects that you may have noticed in your patients, or that they reported.

Isn't it so much better to take a new drug with no idea of side effects, kind of like medicine in the 50s and 60s, when the all-knowing, all-caring medical professionals didn't discuss your diagnosis or prognosis, just said "Here, take these at the intervals shown." My pharmacy could save a couple of trees a day if they quit distributing two or three pages of this stuff with every prescription!

And whoever said asking for experience with a particular medicine is getting medical advice? Advice would be more like, if you have these symptoms, take this stuff; this is just asking what happened when someone took whatever-the-hell-medication-this-is? Of course, whoever asked could just visit webmd.com and find out generic information, but that will hardly be pilot-specific. And there's the handy FAA Approved Medication list too, easily findable through your favorite search engine or on AOPA.org without even a membership.

Personally, I find Excedrin knocks out my headaches faster than anything else that I've tried, and Motrin is excellent for joint pain. Both, however, are labeled for both uses. But Motrin is easier to handle for extended periods, anything beyond two doses. My personal experience. But every body is different ["every body" NOT "everybody" was intentional, and meaningful]. Just being on the list doesn't guarantee that any particular medication will be safe for every pilot to fly while taking, an other reason to ask for others' experiences.

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

So you have no direct experience with the side effects?

What part of “I’ve taken zofran several times” or “I’ve directly observed thousands of people who have received this medication” are you missing? Seriously, I’m disturbed by your lack of comprehension.

Someone asked about scopolamine patches - I answered the question, with references.

Someone else asked about zofran - I answered the question and gave two references - one a case series on using zofran on passengers for motion sickness and another one on pilots in an F-16 simulator. Very applicable to the question being asked.

Apparently, you’re still dissatisfied. I’m thankful my job isn’t to satisfy you. If you don’t like my answers, then add me to your ignore list. I’ll be happy to do the same.

If you have a question about how to use a prescription medication then ask your doctor.

[bcg]

What about Ondansetron? It's been described to me as an anti-throwup pill. Anyone have experience with this medicine? 

I wouldn't expect it to help with motion sickness, it sometimes doesn't help with just regular nausea, even when injected. Even if it does stop you from vomiting, it doesn't always reduce the nausea feeling.

Definitely no scopolamine, I used to use it offshore fishing and it always caused dehydration, no matter how much I drank, and sometimes a little blurred vision and sleepiness.

I would try ginger, one of the little electric pulse bands that works on pressure points and occasionally massaging the thick part of the palm, it's a pressure point that helps reduce nausea.

Also, eat donuts before flying because they still taste good coming up.

I feel for anyone that gets motion sickness in a plane, I fought seasickness for 18 months before I finally beat it. I really wanted to be offshore... In that time, I spent 500 hours in my boat and went from scopolamine to Dramamine to ginger and finally nothing. The important thing was to stay hydrated, eat light stuff and not get heads down. I wish you luck, with enough time I'm sure you'll beat it.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[A64Pilot]

For a non flying, non participating as a crew member, personally I’d recommend the electric wrist band and Stugeron both worked for my Wife on passages (boat thing)

And flying only very early in the morning and or very late in the afternoon when it’s not hot and the air is still. Seems you can handle bumpy or hot, but both and you get sick.

Pilot wise, the wrist band and Ginger Beer. I’d bet none of the drugs are allowable. I think staying cool and in smooth air really helps.

Eventually you get your sea legs and the nausea goes away.

On a boat you know you have gotten your sea legs when you go ashore and walk like a drunk, or when taking a shower you close your eyes and feel the world moving around, seriously a few days at sea and you feel that when you come ashore.

I think enough exposure to flying and you’ll get your air legs so to speak

[Steve0715]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Pilot wise, the wrist band and Ginger Beer

Make that ginger soda.  When going offshore with people I didn’t know, I made sure to add ginger soda to my fridge and some ginger snaps in the pantry.  On long passages, most everyone would be fine on the 3rd day.

[GeeBee]

Ginger soda and Biscoff cookies. There is a reason why airlines stock both.

[A64Pilot]

21 minutes ago, Steve0715 said:

Make that ginger soda.  When going offshore with people I didn’t know, I made sure to add ginger soda to my fridge and some ginger snaps in the pantry.  On long passages, most everyone would be fine on the 3rd day.

Ginger Beer is Ginger Soda? I’ve honestly never seen ginger soda

Ginger Beer isn’t alcoholic just like Root Beer isn’t, or at least what I bought wasn’t.

I think it’s a form of Ginger Ale, which also isn’t alcoholic, so it’s not really an Ale?

Semantics I guess.

[201er]

I’ve heard that the biggest relief from air sickness is to fly the plane. 
 

But if that doesn’t work,

[tgardnerh]

Sorry to disappoint. I’ve taken zofran several times before and have directly observed thousands of people who received this medication ranging in age from 6 months to 100 years old. I’m anxiously awaiting the “here is what happened to me when I took it” stories as well. Maybe I’ll learn something. Getting medial advice on the internet about prescription drug use based on personal experiences always seems like a good idea.

All snark aside, my wife was an anesthesiology resident when she had our first child. A few hours into labor she was very nauseous, and we went several rounds of me arguing she should take the zofran based on my experience taking, and her being unconvinced despite having given it dozens (hundreds?) of times in the prior year.
She relented, took the pill, the nausea passed, and she slept for 4 hours. I felt pretty smug!


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[A64Pilot]

8 hours ago, 201er said:

I’ve heard that the biggest relief from air sickness is to fly the plane. 

Or helm the boat. I think it helps partially by giving them something to do, but also because they are looking at the unmoving horizon.

Worst thing they can do is go below or read a book, I think because they aren’t looking at the horizon. Looking out at the horizon is really important I think, learning to hover a helicopter your not looking at the horizon and it made me sick.

Boat  wise I’ve heard that getting in the water stops it, but not for my Daughter anyway, on her check out dive I learned that you can puke through a regulator, who knew? The little reef fish loved it.

She doesn’t dive now

[Greg Ellis]

8 hours ago, 201er said:

I’ve heard that the biggest relief from air sickness is to fly the plane. 
 

But if that doesn’t work,

One of the greatest pilots to have ever lived and one of the greatest fighter pilots of WWII was plagued with motion sickness when he began his flying career.  The man was Bob Hoover.  He got through it by doing exactly this....flying and flying a lot.  Not saying it will work for everyone but apparently it worked for him.  He did it by pushing himself through aerobatic maneuvers and flying at the edge of the envelope in his airplanes.  Not sure I would suggest that to just anyone but maybe if you just keep at it and fly as much as you can, this too shall pass.