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Remember Way Back When


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9 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I appreciate your clarification and your point about the aisle width:flight attendant width being > 1, but in my time flying I’ve never encountered flight attendants physically unable to do their job. I get abused by the drink cart much more often than by the crew.

I think it’s also fair to acknowledge that some hiring and employee retaining practices can have undesired side effects, if that’s something one cares about. 

Not to be facetious, but my message was clear from get-go. It's when they bump into me that I mind their weight. As for unhealthy expectations and health consequences,  we've all heard of people in the electronics industry who rely on chemicals to cope with the stress, unreasonable expectations, machiavellian management, abusive customers, etc.

And while we're at it, my sympathy would go with a coal miner breathing soot or a factory worker living in toxic chemicals than a well paid, high traveled, highly respected flight attendant who just is required to fit between the seats if the society has evolved from expecting them to exercise and keep fit.

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1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

I’ve never encountered flight attendants physically unable to do their job.

Last time I had to fly by airline I encountered a flight attendant so short she couldn’t lift bags/blankets into the overhead bin without climbing on the seats. I and other passengers ended up assisting her in her job.

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22 hours ago, Canadian Gal said:

.

 

The Air Canada/ Jazz staff were so rude, uncaring, horrible, despicable, disgusting, unprofessional, and to top it off, also liars.

 

 

Sometimes "lies" are in the ears of the listener.

Pilots, at least, do not have a reason to lie and most are straight shooters when talking to their passengers.

Once when we were about to depart ATL-MSY,  I checked the weather just before pushback, the MSY forecast had changed and we now needed an alternate...and more fuel.  Dispatch quickly added the alternate but getting the fuel wasn't so quick, so I explained to the passengers that the new weather forecast required us to take on additional fuel and that was causing the delay.

When we got to MSY (we actually landed pretty close to schedule), but as I was walking down the concourse headed to the hotel, I was "accosted" by a female passenger and accused of. lying about the departure delay!  She said, she knew I was lying because when I said the forecast had changed, she called her husband in New Orleans and he said the weather was good.

End of story...in her mind the airline had lied to her 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

highly respected flight attendant

That made me laugh. Certainly not on this thread.

I have sympathy for coal miners, too. Fortunately, I also have some left over for those in the “customer service” industry as well. It’s interesting when safety roles get turned into people pleasing roles and customers expect to be able to redefine roles - all while paying the bare minimum and acting rude and entitled.

One of my favorite signs in the nursing lounge was “RN does not stand for Refreshments and Narcotics.” Most people don’t seem to get this.

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7 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

Way back when, flying was expensive and it was actually an event.  People would dress up for it.  Flight attendants used to be fit.  Now, stepping on a plane is like opening peopleofwalmart.com 

Well, in other countries, they still have weight restrictions.  My cousin's wife is a flight attendant in Europe and they get on the scale once a month.  

My first airline flight was at about age 2, and SEA to HNL and the airplane had pistons.  I don't really recall that flight, but I do remember later ones in the early 60s.  And even as I child, I was dressed up.  With dress shoes, pants, and a tie (probably a clip on, but a tie).  And my mother wore a dress, with stockings, and heels.

I know some of the Asian airlines have age limits for FAs.  I was talking to a few that were now working for a US carrier, because they aged out (at just over 30) from the initial FA job.

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5 hours ago, 201er said:

The fact that they are rude, unhelpful, or unpleasant is peanuts compared to the fact that they can’t deliver their sardines on time. So many flights get delayed or cancelled that it makes you wonder why bother? My Mooney can get places same or faster than the jet when it never takes off on time.

A lot of cancellations you can blame on Congress.  Because of one highly publicized case of people stuck on a plane for a long time (and it was more the issue with the airport not the carrier), if you are on the plane for longer than X, you get compensated.  So instead of boarding, if there may be a delay, they just cancel the flight.  And if it is due to weather, the carrier does not have to supply food or lodging.  Win-win for them, but the passengers are stuck and it may be days before they can get another flight with the higher load factors.

I had a series of flights (had one, cancelled, the replacement was cancelled, and the next replacement was cancelled).   So I ended up having to overnight in MCO.  Not a big deal.  I had been rebooked on a flight early the next morning, complete with my upgrade.  And I had a pretty high status with that airline.  Which waiting for the airport shuttle, I started talking with a family of four.  They had been originally booked on the last flight I had been moved to.  They were booked out THREE DAYS later. 

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Reasons to dress appropriately when flying…

 

Say for example…

You are flying one of the last DC10s in Continental’s giant fleet…

You are leaving out of Amsterdam for Newark…

You have spent the morning in a nice lounge having breakfast, ready to go…

As the behemoth trundles down the runway… a shudder occurs, accompanied by a slight yaw, followed by slowing down, and taking the next exit…

 

The pilot explains that they have experienced an engine problem… a small hole in the engine is going to cause a delay….

Anyone with PP skills and above knows… the number of holes allowed in the engine is zero… no matter what size they are… and the time needed to plug the hole isn’t going to happen today. :)

 

The reason for being dressed appropriately…

You are now one of 300 people looking to get on the next flight 24hrs from now… and that flight is booked…

You are going to work your skills at making phone calls, talking to anyone near a desk with a computer on it…. And arrange a place to stay that evening…

Being dressed better than the other 299 people with angry faces… seems to get a small amount of positive attention…

 

Now I know what it feels like to be good looking/attractive….  :)


The DC10 quickly fell out of favor after that… A DC10 was known for leaving engine parts all over a runway that was next used by the ill-fated flight of the last Concorde… parts on the ground, destroyed tire, tire parts slap their way through the fuel tank… plane lights itself on fire…

 

The pilot lied to us… he said it was a small hole.  When we were back the next day… the cowl was still off the engine… it had to be a much bigger hole than what they were claiming….   :)


On a 727 flight out of Houston… we were returning to the airport from which we just left…. There was too much heat outside the rear engine, according to the pilot…

What kind of sensor do they use to sense heat outside the engine… a flame detector? :)

Getting on the next flight… easy when dressed well and carrying the platinum card…

 

Use the ‘dressed well’ to move through crowds… the platinum card gets you on the priority list…

It is important to move quickly… because there are a ton of platinum card holders trying to do the same thing… :)

 

Always thank the crew… why not?

Unless the plane is on fire…

I wonder if they log the second landing… after the bounce…?

Most of my flying was within the US… until I got a Mooney.  Then it was Europe, Asia, and South America…  timing…

PP thoughts about flying commercially…

Best regards,

-a-

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4 hours ago, 201er said:

Last time I had to fly by airline I encountered a flight attendant so short she couldn’t lift bags/blankets into the overhead bin without climbing on the seats. I and other passengers ended up assisting her in her job.

Stowing passengers’ bags is not the flight attendant’s job.  Their job is to ensure the passengers stow their bags IAW the FAA’s rules.

But many flight attendants do help with bags because they care about customer service, in spite of how this topic started.  (Also, if they didn’t help, then the sardine can would leave late, because so many “entitled” passengers would just drop their crap anywhere.)

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10 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

But many flight attendants do help with bags because they care about customer service, in spite of how this topic started.  (Also, if they didn’t help, then the sardine can would leave late, because so many “entitled” passengers would just drop their crap anywhere.)

I've been on flights where someone got frustrated because they couldn't find room in the overhead for two bags the size of a refrigerator, and just dropped them in the aisle because, you know, it's the job of the waitress to fix that.  Well, the "waitress" had someone come in the front door, retrieve the bags, and put them in checked baggage -- possibly on the next flight.  Problem solved!

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11 minutes ago, BDPetersen said:

I parked my last B744 nearly 18 years ago. Took one airline ride since. Nice to know not much has changed. Don’t miss it much, but we had good crews that made up for bad management and a few troublesome passengers. Was fun for 37.2 years.

That's a hell of a run.  Did you get as many hours as John Deakin?

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"On a 727 flight out of Houston… we were returning to the airport from which we just left…. There was too much heat outside the rear engine, according to the pilot…

What kind of sensor do they use to sense heat outside the engine… a flame detector? ?

Its called "Lower Aft Body Overheat"  below the engine and above the stair well. It is a BIG deal  Fire Warning but no fire extinguishing. 

If the red light turns on you get your arse on the ground NOW.

Got it on my Type ride. On final I called for the gear and the nose gear didn't extend, The Fed asked me if I was going to land with the nose gear in the well. 

I looked at him and asked about the LAB overheat and he said it was coming through the door. My response was? "Then I don't give a f*&k about the nose gear. "

With that the nose gear green illuminated and I landed. After the ride he told me he did that a lot and I'd be surprised how many went around instead of landing.

NOT really kosher on a check ride (dual failures) but he did it anyway.  

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Way back when?

Late 60s  -

Pilots would not be considered for employment after the age of 30

Basically if you were not fighter pilot qualified you didn't get looked at as there were fighter jocks on 

every street corner just released from the military looking for work

Stewardesses' had to be single, thin (weight check each month), only approved hair and makeup

AND

They were told they were expected to find a husband within 3 years and go bye-bye.

Once they got married they were let go. (to attract the business flyer,  all of them were single)

There were hot meals on long flights for everyone coach included.

First Class had full Prime Rib carved seat side, or bacon wrapped filets

All passengers dressed properly as mentioned. 

No one under 12 in First Class (there was no Business Class)

Passengers could carry cancelled Pilots were sometimes armed also.

On most airplanes you had a guy side-saddle (FE) to do all the dirty work (walk arounds, paper work, etc)

The Capt was GOD and he got the steak while the other 2 got the fish.

The Capt made enough every month to buy two brand new pick up trucks!

Some Capts would give their room key to the stewardess of their choice--

      back then cabin-cockpit relations were actually a free for all on layovers(real LAY overs!)

     with some groups designating one of the rooms for the night to be the - "play room" ! 

It really was a free for all. 

 

As on old Capt told my friend when he first started at AA  "This is not a job for the faint of heart"

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10 hours ago, cliffy said:

Its called "Lower Aft Body Overheat"  below the engine and above the stair well. It is a BIG deal  Fire Warning but no fire extinguishing. 

If the red light turns on you get your arse on the ground NOW.

Got it on my Type ride. On final I called for the gear and the nose gear didn't extend, The Fed asked me if I was going to land with the nose gear in the well. 

I looked at him and asked about the LAB overheat and he said it was coming through the door. My response was? "Then I don't give a f*&k about the nose gear. "

With that the nose gear green illuminated and I landed. After the ride he told me he did that a lot and I'd be surprised how many went around instead of landing.

NOT really kosher on a check ride (dual failures) but he did it anyway.  

Back many years ago I was on a flight out of IAD on United.  At the time, you could dial up Channel 9 on the audio and listen to the cockpit radios.  It may have been a 727.

Right after take off, the crew declares and emergency due to over heat light.  They make an announcement that we are returning due a warning light.  Fire trucks were waiting, and chased us down the runway.

They made another announcement about nothing to worry about, probably faulty sensor, but can't ignore it.  We get to a gate, and after about 15 - 20 minutes, we are deplaned and moved to another aircraft.  HMMMM, doesn't sound like a faulty sensor. 

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I was flying to Manchester UK in a 767 about 15 years ago. When we got there, we didn’t land and just kept circling the airport. The captain announced that they had a hydraulic failure and the company was figuring out what to do. 
 

They finally put the wheels down and the first officer came back in the cabin, pulled the carpet up to check the down lock indicators. We then landed with no flaps. The landing was uneventful, but we used all the runway. I’m glad the brakes worked. 
 

On the way out I asked the captain why they didn’t use the electric motors to put the flaps down? He said if the plane is land able, they won’t risk making it worse by using the backup systems. I then congratulated him on his landing and he smiled.

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It's been a long time since I've been on Air Canada - sounds much worse than I recall.  I mostly fly American in the US. Obviously modern service is far below what is once was in the golden age of aviation, but their cabin crew almost always seem competent, polite, hard-working, and professional. On my last flight, being served by two overweight middle aged men in the cabin made me chuckle a bit, reminding me how much things have changed from the days of stewardesses in short dresses and height, weight, and age requirements.  Those two guys were great though, and that particular change is probably for the best.

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2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I don’t think a 737 will make it from LA to England.

Actually the 737 BBJ can no problem.
 

I flew 737’s that had the gear indicators in the passenger cabin. I flew 767’s in passenger configuration to long ago and don’t remember it having that in the cabin. Maybe someone can chime in who flys them now in a pax configuration. 
I do fly the 767 now but it’s an all cargo configuration and we don’t have that. 

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I guess I qualify as a frequent flyer. I fall into one of Delta’s upgrade categories. I also have watched airline service degrade, and for me it has been over a period of about 50 years now.

A major issue is the reduction in seat sizes and the substantial increase in human sizes. If you look at a group picture in the 50s or 60s, and one today, you will see the problem. People are way larger in every sense, but particularly weight and width. I don’t usually wind up in coach but there have been a few trips where I have been in the center seat between two 280 pounders in coach, and it is just plain painful. With the shrinkage in seat size, we have become sardines in a can. That is typically what starts the problems, people are just flat uncomfortable and act out.

We also don’t like the whole TSA dance where you have to wait in very long lines, take half your clothes off in public, and they put everything back together on the other side. However, what else are we going to do? I remember when the family could come down to the gate to see the passenger off, there were no long TSA lines, etc. But that was also before the World Trade Center, the shoe bomber, and several episodes of commercial aircraft blowing up in the air. We have not had that happen in quite awhile so I guess I am willing to put up with that hassle in exchange for some safety.

As for the counter people, I seem to get treated with about the same level of courtesy as happened 30 or 40 years ago. If anything, those lines are faster than they used to be and since people can’t negotiate with the counter agent to get upgraded anymore, there are fewer people picking arguments with them.

Yeah, it ain’t great. But I haven’t seen the fist fights that the news like to put up, not a single one, and I fly quite a bit. It has been probably fifteen years now since we have had a major accident involving a US crew and one of the major commercial airlines. Safety has definitely been upgraded.

The airlines won’t do it of course, but they need to increase the size of the seat space. If you sit in coach, the person in front reclines, and you put your tray down it will be in your chest not to mention the elbows for the 280 pounders on each side.

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For the TSA issue, invest $85 or $100 every 5 years for Pre-Chek.  You don't have to take things out of your bag, you don't have to take off your shoes, and you can even leave a light jacket or sweater on.  AND shorter lines.

You get Pre-Chek for $85, but for only $15 more, you get Global Entry which speeds things up if you do any international travel at all.

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  • 3 months later...
On 2/10/2023 at 1:14 PM, Mooneymite said:

Sometimes "lies" are in the ears of the listener.

Pilots, at least, do not have a reason to lie and most are straight shooters when talking to their passengers.

Once when we were about to depart ATL-MSY,  I checked the weather just before pushback, the MSY forecast had changed and we now needed an alternate...and more fuel.  Dispatch quickly added the alternate but getting the fuel wasn't so quick, so I explained to the passengers that the new weather forecast required us to take on additional fuel and that was causing the delay.

When we got to MSY (we actually landed pretty close to schedule), but as I was walking down the concourse headed to the hotel, I was "accosted" by a female passenger and accused of. lying about the departure delay!  She said, she knew I was lying because when I said the forecast had changed, she called her husband in New Orleans and he said the weather was good.

End of story...in her mind the airline had lied to her 

 

 

 

I am late to this, but I have had almost the exact scenario. In almost 25 years at my airline I have never lied to the passengers, but have been accused of it. They have no concept that just because it is not raining at grandmas right now that the airspace around grandma can be restricted due to weather 100 miles away, therefore I am a liar.

 I also work with many wonderful flight attendants and pilots. Some very few have not been so good but eventually get weeded out. There are also self absorbed, entitlement oriented and rude passengers. People are people and I try to extend grace because some days I need it extended to me.

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