Hardwire Stratux solution?

[0TreeLemur]

Our C had an Appareo transponder and Stratus 2i.   The Stratus received GPS position from the transponder, and was connected to an external antenna on the outside of the hull.  Elegant solution for getting all that info to an iPad.   It was reliable, powered by ships power, and just worked.  I never used the AHRS.

Our "new" J had no ADS-B in solution when we bought it, so I built a Stratux.  It's held up in the right-rear window using a suction cup mount.  It doesn't seem to get super great ADS-B reception.

Question: It seems that it should be possible to install the stratux somewhere behind the panel with an external GPS dongle and connected to an external antenna or two.  There is someone on line selling the 978 and 1090 antennas with cables for this purpose.   I don't think our C had two external antenna's dedicated to this.    Does the Appareo solution somehow use the transponder antenna as a 1090 ADS-B in source?   It had a trafficalert system antenna installed that might have been connected to the Stratus.

I don't want to spend the AMUs to install a complete Appareo xponder and Stratus.   Anyone done anything like this with a Stratux?    My stratux doesn't have AHRS, don't need it because I have a backup AI.

Thanks!

Fred

[glbtrottr]

Hey Fred -

I May be in the minority by I have never liked the stratus solution. I have tried most of the ones below:

ADSB solutions:

Old scout - received perfectly fine for me, small form factor, works great plugged into a USB battery brick

Gdl39/39 3D with AHRS (just picked one up with a battery for $300 and works like a champ)- you can use external antenna - you Can hard wire it into the ship all day and use the antenna connection for an external antenna.

Gdl 39R (built to be remote mounted) same as above

Navworx with external antenna (feeds your current panel mounted avionics AND portables- though out of business, you can find them for $300-800. If you already have an out solution, you can configure to receive only without issue. Can output to Wifi and USB as well as your 430 530 GTN mx20 gmx200 etc.

The newer GDL52’s found on eBay for less than $1k

Sentry

Appareo 2i

Appareo 1s

Just about any stratus

Ilevil

Freeflight 978

Just about every solution above I’ve shared is under a grand, some as little as $150, and all but one use an external antenna if desired.

Since a ya let like an IPad is the means of navigation, the device doesn’t need gps- and if you connect it to be powered by a USB battery, you don’t care if the ship power goes out…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

For fun…

Know that the two antenna options are for the two frequencies used by the more modern ADSB in units…

I have an old SkyRadar unit that still gets used…

it gets power from the ‘liter’ (Mooney spelling)

The antenna is snaked up through glare shield up by the windshield… GPS antenna as well…

The box hides out of the way, nobody sees it… 

Check list item to remember to plug/unplug it…. 

The antennas have pretty good view out the window…

PP thoughts only, not an avionics guru…

Best regards,

-a-

[RoundTwo]

I’ve been doing some research because I’m looking for a solution that will work well in the rental world I’m currently constrained to and I have come across numerous comments complaining about poor reception of the Stratux. In plane to plane comparisons, flying at the same time, the Stratux pilot was getting 1 tower while the Stratus pilot tracked 2-3 towers. I’m sure there are countering reviews, but to me, there appears to be a reception issue with the Stratux solution.

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Our C had an Appareo transponder and Stratus 2i.   The Stratus received GPS position from the transponder, and was connected to an external antenna on the outside of the hull.  Elegant solution for getting all that info to an iPad.   It was reliable, powered by ships power, and just worked.  I never used the AHRS.

Our "new" J had no ADS-B in solution when we bought it, so I built a Stratux.  It's held up in the right-rear window using a suction cup mount.  It doesn't seem to get super great ADS-B reception.

Question: It seems that it should be possible to install the stratux somewhere behind the panel with an external GPS dongle and connected to an external antenna or two.  There is someone on line selling the 978 and 1090 antennas with cables for this purpose.   I don't think our C had two external antenna's dedicated to this.    Does the Appareo solution somehow use the transponder antenna as a 1090 ADS-B in source?   It had a trafficalert system antenna installed that might have been connected to the Stratus.

I don't want to spend the AMUs to install a complete Appareo xponder and Stratus.   Anyone done anything like this with a Stratux?    My stratux doesn't have AHRS, don't need it because I have a backup AI.

Thanks!

Fred

Bite the bullet and spend the money on a a Garmin GDL50 (ADS-B in only) or a GDL52 (ADS-B in + XM). Solid connection - compatible with with Garmin Pilot, FltPln Go, Foreflight, Aera 660 or 760). You could also mount a GDL50R or 52R behind the panel, however I like the portable since it has built in battery for a good solution for a power out situation. 

The best permanent in-panel solution for what's out now and in the future is a Garmin GTX-345 transponder - it offers bluetooth for portables, hard wire for panel displays, built-in AHRS, which works well if the airplane is leveled when configured.

I don't care for Appareo (Stratus) as a company since they have had known flaws in their portables (power jack) and did not own up to it and do the right thing and they just put the responsibility back on the customer. Based on their poor customer service I don't see them as a long term player in the market and I personally would do whatever I could to avoid any product with their name on it.

(I had a Stratus 2 that had intermittent power problems - the usb jack on the unit itself was defective. I took it to Oshkosh a few years back fully expecting them to do something about it since it was a known flaw according to what I had been reading about on online forums. The person I talked to at the Appareo booth should have received at least a nomination for best actor since he feigned complete shock that something like this had happened and that they hadn't really seen anything like this . . . that often. They offered to give me a relatively small discount on a new "updated" unit, which was an insult since the updated unit was admission that there had been a flaw in the previous unit. Had they offered a substantial price adjustment for their flaw and my time and trouble that would have showed good faith on their part. I stayed off to the side and in the next 30 minutes saw three other people approach the same person with similar issues and he went through his same act.  Any product can have issues that show up in the field, but the great companies own the mistake, are honest about it, and do something to make it right. I went from their booth over to Aircraft Spruce and bought a Garmin GDL-52 and never looked back. I enjoy basic XM music with an inexpensive subscription with the GDL52 also.  I gave the Stratus 2 to a friend who thought maybe he could solder the connection or even wire it directly - he ended up throwing it away in the garbage - exactly where it belonged in the first place. But as you can tell . .  at least I'm not bitter about it . . lol )

[Ragsf15e]

I’d also bite the bullet and buy a reasonable solution.  I’d go sentry, mount it somewhere inconspicuous and test reception.  I bet it’s very good without an external antenna.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

I’ve been doing some research because I’m looking for a solution that will work well in the rental world I’m currently constrained to and I have come across numerous comments complaining about poor reception of the Stratux. In plane to plane comparisons, flying at the same time, the Stratux pilot was getting 1 tower while the Stratus pilot tracked 2-3 towers. I’m sure there are countering reviews, but to me, there appears to be a reception issue with the Stratux solution.

I've been building and flying with Stratux devices for about six years, and mine works fine even when just thrown in the back seat.   I have an in-panel ADS-B-in Ranger with an external antenna on the belly that displays traffic on my IFD.   There are lots of times when my tablet will show traffic from the stratux laying in the back seat that the Ranger with the external antenna didn't get.  The opposite is also true, that sometimes the IFD will show traffic that the stratux didn't get.   That's just the nature of wireless signals.

That said, the receivers that the stratux uses is an RTL-SDR, and they're inexpensive and there are quite number of different vendors for them and they're not all created equal.   For the most part even the "bad" ones are pretty decent, but the better ones are quite good.   I designed an L-band satellite receiver for a client using them and the native sensitivity is quite good.  There's no reason to expect a stratux to be worse than anything else unless you cheap out on the dongles, and even then it shouldn't be all that bad.

http://www.anchorhill.com/products/software-defined-bpsk-demodulator/

 

[EricJ]

14 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Our C had an Appareo transponder and Stratus 2i.   The Stratus received GPS position from the transponder, and was connected to an external antenna on the outside of the hull.  Elegant solution for getting all that info to an iPad.   It was reliable, powered by ships power, and just worked.  I never used the AHRS.

Our "new" J had no ADS-B in solution when we bought it, so I built a Stratux.  It's held up in the right-rear window using a suction cup mount.  It doesn't seem to get super great ADS-B reception.

Question: It seems that it should be possible to install the stratux somewhere behind the panel with an external GPS dongle and connected to an external antenna or two.  There is someone on line selling the 978 and 1090 antennas with cables for this purpose.   I don't think our C had two external antenna's dedicated to this.    Does the Appareo solution somehow use the transponder antenna as a 1090 ADS-B in source?   It had a trafficalert system antenna installed that might have been connected to the Stratus.

I don't want to spend the AMUs to install a complete Appareo xponder and Stratus.   Anyone done anything like this with a Stratux?    My stratux doesn't have AHRS, don't need it because I have a backup AI.

Thanks!

Fred

My stratux works fine even after it falls off the window into the back seat.   I've wanted to permanently mount it, perhaps on the hat shelf, using an external antenna, but haven't gotten around to that yet.   If you have an unused DME or transponder antenna, those work for ADS-B-in.   That said, just using the usual stratux antennas, even when it's on my back seat, works as well as my in-panel Ranger that uses my old external DME antenna to feed traffic on my IFD.  

[carusoam]

It must be cool to have real world wireless experience….  

Some of the biggest challenges we have come with WiFi and BT connections after the signal gets received from the outside world…

 

Suction cups… suck!

Or don’t suck enough…

When we get near the O2 level…  we see 20” of MP in place of the 29.92” we see at sea level…

This causes a big challenge for any suction cup trying to hold anything including itself…

 

If using suction cups to hold stuff up… try to get a two suction cup system if available…. This way you get a small warning before complete failure of the mount occurs…

 

Imagine using a portable electronic device with its AHRS system stuck to the window…. Mid flight, you glance over your shoulder to see a smeared circle where your device used to be… 

Life saving technology, randomly tossed to the floor, with an unknown unstable orientation… randomly tossed by nature…

Suction cup technology… some have levers to reset the stiction frequently.  The cups themselves are a plasticized PVC… that suffer from age issues over the years…similar to Tygon tubing…

PP thoughts only, not an instrument guru…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

The best permanent in-panel solution for what's out now and in the future is a Garmin GTX-345 transponder - it offers bluetooth for portables, hard wire for panel displays, built-in AHRS, which works well if the airplane is leveled when configured.

I have read (probably here) that the GTX-345 AHRS is a little sketchy.  Is leveling a potential cure for poor AHRS performance?

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I have read (probably here) that the GTX-345 AHRS is a little sketchy.  Is leveling a potential cure for poor AHRS performance?

I've heard of some that just didn't work, not sure if that has anything to do with leveling, or just defective. I've had a couple of them installed and if the shop doesn't skip any steps, like doing it with the Mooney level,  the AHRS works as advertised. A lot of shops couldn't tell you where the level reference line is on the Mooney.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I have read (probably here) that the GTX-345 AHRS is a little sketchy.  Is leveling a potential cure for poor AHRS performance?

Not in my experience. However, I would update to the latest software. Garmin has made some changes that they claim improve the AHRS performance including a bench calibration that might help. I haven't tested it because the G3X installation disables the GTX internal AHRS. The GTX Bluetooth still transmits AHRS information, but the source is the GSU 25D or the G5; not the internal AHRS.

Skip

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

My stratux works fine even after it falls off the window into the back seat.   I've wanted to permanently mount it, perhaps on the hat shelf, using an external antenna, but haven't gotten around to that yet.   If you have an unused DME or transponder antenna, those work for ADS-B-in.   That said, just using the usual stratux antennas, even when it's on my back seat, works as well as my in-panel Ranger that uses my old external DME antenna to feed traffic on my IFD.  

As I understand it in addition to UAT traffic, the FIS-B info comes in on 978 MHz band, necessitating two SDR's in the Stratux.   Wouldn't that require two external antennas?   I'm pretty sure there is an unused DME antenna on the bottom of my J.  I see that the L-band central frequency of DME is about 1090 MHz, so it should be most sensitive to that frequency, and less so at 978 MHz.   Splitter?

Not an EE, but an E.

 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, 0TreeLemur said:

As I understand it in addition to UAT traffic, the FIS-B info comes in on 978 MHz band, necessitating two SDR's in the Stratux.   Wouldn't that require two external antennas?   I'm pretty sure there is an unused DME antenna on the bottom of my J.  I see that the L-band central frequency of DME is about 1090 MHz, so it should be most sensitive to that frequency, and less so at 978 MHz.   Splitter?

Not an EE, but an E.

A splitter should work but will reduce sensitivity a little bit.   You could run a single cable from the antenna and put the splitter near the two RTL-SDR dongles.  Make sure the splitter supports L-band frequencies (many do, but not all).  That's what my plan has been for a permanent mount solution, but my ex-DME antenna got connected to my in-panel ADS-B-in receiver, so I'd have to mount another one and I've been too lazy to do that.

[glbtrottr]

How did we get from an OP that didnt want to spend the AMUs on an appareo to talking about a Garmin 345?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LANCECASPER]

15 minutes ago, glbtrottr said:

How did we get from an OP that didnt want to spend the AMUs on an appareo to talking about a Garmin 345?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We consider it our obligation to assist him in spending his childrens' inheritance.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Not in my experience. However, I would update to the latest software. Garmin has made some changes that they claim improve the AHRS performance including a bench calibration that might help. I haven't tested it because the G3X installation disables the GTX internal AHRS. The GTX Bluetooth still transmits AHRS information, but the source is the GSU 25D or the G5; not the internal AHRS.

Skip

I'm guessing those other boxes are more robust or you wouldn't have them in your airplane?

[PT20J]

1 minute ago, Fly Boomer said:

I'm guessing those other boxes are more robust or you wouldn't have them in your airplane?

I don't know if they are the most robust or not, but Garmin equipment is generally well made. I like the way that the G3X, G5, GTN 650Xi, GFC 500 and GTX 345 integrate. It's as close to an affordable integrated flight deck as I could get with Garmin equipment that is not certified by the airframe manufacturer (like a G1000Nxi or a Cirrus Perspective)

[0TreeLemur]

3 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

We consider it our obligation to assist him in spending his childrens' inheritance.

Our J has 0.0 AMU's of "Big G" equipment installed and looks to stay that way.

[0TreeLemur]

15 hours ago, glbtrottr said:

Hey Fred -

I May be in the minority by I have never liked the stratus solution. I have tried most of the ones below:

ADSB solutions:

Old scout - received perfectly fine for me, small form factor, works great plugged into a USB battery brick

Gdl39/39 3D with AHRS (just picked one up with a battery for $300 and works like a champ)- you can use external antenna - you Can hard wire it into the ship all day and use the antenna connection for an external antenna.

Gdl 39R (built to be remote mounted) same as above

Navworx with external antenna (feeds your current panel mounted avionics AND portables- though out of business, you can find them for $300-800. If you already have an out solution, you can configure to receive only without issue. Can output to Wifi and USB as well as your 430 530 GTN mx20 gmx200 etc.

The newer GDL52’s found on eBay for less than $1k

Sentry

Appareo 2i

Appareo 1s

Just about any stratus

Ilevil

Freeflight 978

Just about every solution above I’ve shared is under a grand, some as little as $150, and all but one use an external antenna if desired.

Since a ya let like an IPad is the means of navigation, the device doesn’t need gps- and if you connect it to be powered by a USB battery, you don’t care if the ship power goes out…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nice list!   you've tried quite a few!  Thx.

[takair]

One alternative with the Stratux is to simply mount the remote antennas in view of the windows, they can be rather inconspicuous.  Just route the co-ax to the window post and mount there.  I have a NavWorx as well, but the ADS-B in has not been stable, I suspect it is the wifi dongle.  I then used the Stratux for years.  It worked quite well.  I only moved to the Stratus because I wanted the synthetic vision that Foreflight offers. After trying at least a half dozen AHRS modules in Stratux, I gave up.  That said, since you don’t need the AHRS, not an issue.

[trevttu76]

I used an existing DME antenna and ran that to a splitter and fed both Stratus radios.  Both radios fall into the frequency spectrum of the DME receive spectrum.  Yes, using a splitter degrades the signal a bit, but having an external antenna on the belly more than makes up for the splitter.  I have amazing reception for WX and traffic; way more than when I used separate whip antennas in the cabin.  

Also use a GPS puck (magnetic back) on the center of the glare shield and cable run through the avionics bay.  

I "mounted" my Stratux with zip ties under the co-pilot panel so its out of the way but accessible if needed.  Important to make the SD card accessible primarily.  

Very clean install with amazing results; you would never know it's installed.  I have a Garmin 375 GPS, so the Stratux is my backup and it plays well with all EFB's. 

 

[0TreeLemur]

7 hours ago, trevttu76 said:

I used an existing DME antenna and ran that to a splitter and fed both Stratus radios.  Both radios fall into the frequency spectrum of the DME receive spectrum.  Yes, using a splitter degrades the signal a bit, but having an external antenna on the belly more than makes up for the splitter.  I have amazing reception for WX and traffic; way more than when I used separate whip antennas in the cabin.  

Also use a GPS puck (magnetic back) on the center of the glare shield and cable run through the avionics bay.  

I "mounted" my Stratux with zip ties under the co-pilot panel so its out of the way but accessible if needed.  Important to make the SD card accessible primarily.  

Very clean install with amazing results; you would never know it's installed.  I have a Garmin 375 GPS, so the Stratux is my backup and it plays well with all EFB's. 

 

This is exactly what I think I'll try.  There is a DME antenna on the bottom that I think is unused.   I think I'll avoid the magnetic back GPS puck and use velcro instead to avoid any possible issues with possibly magnetizing my Mooney.  The challenge will be finding a place for the Stratux amongst all those wires.

 

[EricJ]

11 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

This is exactly what I think I'll try.  There is a DME antenna on the bottom that I think is unused.   I think I'll avoid the magnetic back GPS puck and use velcro instead to avoid any possible issues with possibly magnetizing my Mooney.  The challenge will be finding a place for the Stratux amongst all those wires.

It's usually pretty easy to remove the magnet from a GPS antenna that has one, so you probably don't even need to change antennas if you have one you want to use.    If it's shiny it's probably a neodymium magnet and you can use it to inspect elevator counter weights!

[jlunseth]

My trusty Stratus 1 has just always worked. I don’t bother with the suction cup anymore, it was constantly falling off. I just lay it up on the glareshield in a corner where it won’t move around and isn’t far from the charger plug-in. The display on the iPad is really good. The wx display does not have the definition that my Sirius XM weather does on the GTN 750, nor can I “see” weather forward a few hundred miles to my destination, but the traffic is actually better than the Garmin panel solution. I use the iPad all the time as a check on the panel systems. I also don’t need the AHRS, I have backup AI’s now, on the panel.