M20C Crash Calhoun, GA

[GeeBee]

1-28-23 1630EST. This is all I have right now

 

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/small-plane-crash-calhoun/85-a8f0a6cd-72b0-4744-b002-d92b3a089c02

 

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/calhoun-airport-plane-crash-fire

[AIREMATT]

Sounds like they made it out at least.

[toto]

Couldn’t tell if this was a successful turnback or something else - in any case, it sounds like they were able to walk away. 

[Mooney in Oz]

On 1/29/2023 at 4:04 PM, 1980Mooney said:

Per the Airport Manager it was not a turn-back.  It was straight ahead but ran out of runway.  News says:

According to Tom B. David Airport Manager Dwight Albritton, a small propeller-driven aircraft with two pilots on board experienced a mechanical issue during an attempted takeoff. 

"A locally-owned Mooney M20-C aircraft based here at Calhoun suffered an engine failure immediately after takeoff on our southbound runway," Albritton said. 

The incident occurred at a point on the runway without enough asphalt left to make a normal safe landing, according to Albritton. 

"The pilots quickly lowered the landing gear and landed back on the runway with very little pavement remaining," Albritton said. "The aircraft skidded off the remaining pavement into the grass and over and embankment on the south end of the runway. The aircraft came to a stop about 300 feet south of the runway."

Pilots survive crash landing at Calhoun airport | Local | northwestgeorgianews.com

Makes sense with the view of the runway above the aircraft in the background of the attached photo.

It'd be good to know what started the fire.

[DXB]

Glad the people are ok. Hope the reason for loss of power can be discerned under all that fire damage.

[PT20J]

Well, perhaps this counters the idea of leaving the gear down on takeoff until there is no more runway available. The plane will stop faster on the remaining runway with the gear up. Not faulting the pilot; just something to think about.

 

[A64Pilot]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

Well, perhaps this counters the idea of leaving the gear down on takeoff until there is no more runway available. The plane will stop faster on the remaining runway with the gear up. Not faulting the pilot; just something to think about.

 

It will stop even quicker if you nose it in, but I’d prefer the aircraft still be usable after the event. This airplane doesn’t look like they got the gear down to me, the pic is blurry but it doesn’t look like gear collapsing terrain at the end of the runway from what I see, just normal overrun.

It also looks like the engine mount is bent way down too? Maybe it did go in nose down?

[A64Pilot]

So what collapsed the gear, folded the engine it seems under and turned the aircraft 90 degrees? I agree it sure looks like the J bar is up and locked.

It may not have been a nice touchdown, maybe I’m thinking? I’d expect to see at least the engine not folded under under any kind of normal wheel landing.

I’m looking at an Ipad screen so may not see things as well as you guys with nice computer monitors, does the engine appear to be under the aircraft?

I’ve seen gear shoved up through the wings, but for all three to fold confuses me.

[A64Pilot]

I’m not seeing any significant ditch, or anything from the end of the runway to where the aircraft is at rest.

 

[PT20J]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:04 PM, 1980Mooney said:

"The pilots quickly lowered the landing gear and landed back on the runway with very little pavement remaining," Albritton said. "The aircraft skidded off the remaining pavement into the grass and over and embankment on the south end of the runway. The aircraft came to a stop about 300 feet south of the runway."

My comment was based on the above description of the accident. There are times when it might be better to damage the airplane to improve survivability. Given the fire damage, I hate to think what would have happened if the door had jammed.

[A64Pilot]

12 minutes ago, PT20J said:

My comment was based on the above description of the accident. There are times when it might be better to damage the airplane to improve survivability. Given the fire damage, I hate to think what would have happened if the door had jammed.

Understood, I’ve pretty much always used all of the runway it’s just a habit drilled into me from way back. When departing 5,000 ft or longer runways I wouldn’t get the gear on the 210 until landing straight ahead on a runway wasn’t possible. I was off and climbing in a few hundred ft with thousands of feet in front of me. Gear cycle on a 210 isn’t as fast as on a Mooney, worst case is landing with them in transit.

But now I fly a Mooney I get the gear soon after positive rate, reason is it seems to me by the design of the lower doors on my J model that higher air speeds put more strain on the system, but if landing on the runway is possible I’d still rather do it on my wheels. J bar aircraft of course get them soon unless the pilot is a weight lifter.

In this accident I’d hazard a guess that maybe the engine failure cause may be the cause of the fire, massive fuel leak maybe?

The way it burned so completely it almost looks like the boost was on feeding the fire?

Thank God they got out.

[hammdo]

I had a situation where I took off, raised the gear (jbar) and the oil filler door popped open. I simply lowered the gear, slowed and landed back on the runway with plenty of room (was a longer runway but was down within 4500 ft of the 9000 ft runway).

Short runway, I’d probably just fly the pattern and land normally. It can be done quickly with the jbar…

-Don

[ArtVandelay]

If you zoom in on the last picture that was posted you can clearly see the Johnson Bar sticking straight up.  It looks like the gear was down to me.  
 
Jim
 

But could it popped out when impact occurred?

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

With every other retractable gear airplane I have flown I have followed the mantra of leaving the gear down after takeoff as long as there was usable runway remaining to land on; including my previous M20J. With my manual gear C model, however, it works best for me to retract the gear as soon as a positive rate of climb is established while both the airspeed and the actuation forces are still low.  Preferably below 80 MPH.  Otherwise I’d have to maintain a very steep climb angle to do so and the “big push” would be of much greater concern in the event of a power failure.  I’d rather have to spend the second it would take to drop the gear during those critical moments than risk losing control of the airplane.  Or just leave the gear up, as @PT20J suggested, if conditions warrant it.  

Just a private pilot, not an instructor, yada, yada, yada.  I only bring this up to point out than manual gear Mooneys might be somewhat unique in this regard for those who have never flown them.  I have no idea how others fly them, though.  

The electric gear comes down pretty quickly, and on my airplane I have to get the gear coming up below 90kts or so or it'll blow the breaker, so I tend to get it coming up at positive rate, or shortly after lift off for the same reasons you mention.    I did have an engine failure on takeoff once, just as the gear finished cycling up, and got the gear down in time to land on the remaining runway.

The Arrow I used to fly had really, really slow gear cycle times, so I usually left that down until I was either out of runway or it didn't matter or would have been better to be up (like taking off over water).   Seminoles have pretty much the same slow gear as an Arrow, but you have an extra engine and if one fails you're better off with the gear up, so it comes up at positive rate.   

[Hank]

14 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Maybe.  I don’t know.  Admittedly, I can’t see the down lock block in the picture, and the top of the Johnson Bar should be inserted in it.  I wondered if perhaps it, being aluminum whereas the Johnson Bar is made out of steel, might have melted?  I see evidence of fuselage skin having done that.  It must have been some fire.  

Avgas burns hot! Aluminum melts at 1221ºF, much lower than my EGT when leaned out. Seems that I peak above 1500ºF, but admittedly even a couple of inches from the exhaust valve, the gases have cooled noticeably--that's why we make such a fuss about EGT sensor locations varying by just a couple of millimeters making actual numerical comparison between airplanes worthless.

[Hank]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

The electric gear comes down pretty quickly, and on my airplane I have to get the gear coming up below 90kts or so or it'll blow the breaker, so I tend to get it coming up at positive rate, or shortly after lift off for the same reasons you mention.    I did have an engine failure on takeoff once, just as the gear finished cycling up, and got the gear down in time to land on the remaining runway.

I'm a "positive rate, gear up" guy too; the gear is generally tucked away around treetop level. At my first home field, 3000' with trees at the end, there was no usable runway left by then--my choices were to fly and climb, or go down in the trees, although I might have enough altitude to go a couple hundred yards left and land in the Ohio River.

I did take off on a 5000' runway with my pitot cover on once. Couldn't figure out why the ASI was taking so long to register, but about the time the plane lifted off by itself [much further down than normal], I pulled power and landed, easily exiting the runway at the far end. I thought that was a simpler thing than flying a full pattern with my wife and luggage and no ASI, especially as the landing end of the runway was close to a mountain and the runway was downhill. On the second takeoff, I realized how long my first roll had been, likely close to 2000'.

[ilovecornfields]

If my engine craps out right after takeoff the condition of the airplane for my next flight is not my concern. I pull the gear up with positive rate and if I need to land again on the runway I’ll do it with the gear up (unless I have several thousand feet left). Sorry if this upsets the underwriters but I’ve paid my premiums and haven’t had in incident in the last 30 years so I figure the plane is theirs once the fan stops.

[rbp]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

If my engine craps out right after takeoff the condition of the airplane for my next flight is not my concern. I pull the gear up with positive rate and if I need to land again on the runway I’ll do it with the gear up (unless I have several thousand feet left). Sorry if this upsets the underwriters but I’ve paid my premiums and haven’t had in incident in the last 30 years so I figure the plane is theirs once the fan stops.

agreed. the gear won't come back down until landing is assured. altitude and airspeed are your friends. drag is not.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

If my engine craps out right after takeoff the condition of the airplane for my next flight is not my concern. . . . but I’ve paid my premiums and haven’t had in incident in the last 30 years so I figure the plane is theirs once the fan stops.

If the fan stops because it hits the runway, videos that I've seen show about 1 revolution. The plane slides to a halt in just a few hundred feet.

[toto]

6 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Sorry if this upsets the underwriters but I’ve paid my premiums and haven’t had in incident in the last 30 years so I figure the plane is theirs once the fan stops.

I’m no insurance expert, but I suspect they would much rather pay for a GU than pay out injury claims. The ones that hurt the insurance companies are the ones where you land an otherwise healthy aircraft gear up. If it’s going to crash one way or the other, your interests are aligned - you both want the fewest injuries possible

 

 

 

[Sam Muncy]

I base at KCZL. Saw the entire incident, until they hit the grass. Gear was down. Fire started in engine compartment, well after impact.  Both men walked away.  

As everyone said after the incident....get training and stay current on the training.  When this unfolded in front of me, I didn't know how to get the fire extinguisher off the wall. Didn't think to train myself in that small feat. If you don't train and practice, you don't know what you will do when and if your engine quits.  

[Yetti]

I was taught by a Mooney safety pilot to Bird comes up, gear comes up, dip the nose slightly get the wing flying then go up.   His point was that this will gain you more altitude quicker than any other method.  It does seem to get you going up faster than trying to get the wing flying while climbing.

[KB4]

On 1/30/2023 at 9:44 AM, A64Pilot said:

but for all three to fold confuses me

3, but they act as one. So, if 1 folds, the others will follow generally.  It’s either All up, All Down or All in transit. 

[1980Mooney]

From our friends at BeechTalk :

"This airplane was hangared across from me at CZL. It has been in that hangar for the last 20 years. The owners were just getting back into flying after their dad’s passing (he owned it for many years) awhile back. The right seater was an instructor. There is talk that there were some mag issues. After a high power run up, the mags checked ok, after that run up, a takeoff was made. The airplane has never flown very much, but these two brothers were hoping to change that. Very sad to see it in a burnt mangled mess, but glad no one was seriously hurt."

[A64Pilot]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:44 PM, KB4 said:

3, but they act as one. So, if 1 folds, the others will follow generally.  It’s either All up, All Down or All in transit. 

I understand that, but if you look at most hard landings etc, only one gear folds. You go pogoing down the runway, usually only the nose goes, of course the tubes to the nose bends, something had to or they all go together, or someone tries a turn too fast or just gets sideways somehow, usually only one main folds.

But for all three especially with the J bar still up is I’d think real unusual, I’d expect the up lock to fail.