Bravo Purchase Advice

[ScottZ]

Hey Guys,

Presently a partner on a 58p, but not flying as much. Mission is Texas to Colorado, or Texas to Memphis. Mostly just my wife with some bags (call that 400 lbs). Is it crazy to do a Bravo or Ovation with a/c and FIKI? It is hot in Texas and I sometimes fly where icing could be a problem. If I had to choose one, it would be a/c. If the there are meaningful known icing reports I won't fly.  What kind of savings would you get if you went glass (GI-275s), and removed dual vacuum system? Is there other weight savings you could employ to justify both systems?

 

Thanks, 

 

SZ

 

 

[alextstone]

Hey Guys,
Presently a partner on a 58p, but not flying as much. Mission is Texas to Colorado, or Texas to Memphis. Mostly just my wife with some bags (call that 400 lbs). Is it crazy to do a Bravo or Ovation with a/c and FIKI? It is hot in Texas and I sometimes fly where icing could be a problem. If I had to choose one, it would be a/c. If the there are meaningful known icing reports I won't fly.  What kind of savings would you get if you went glass (GI-275s), and removed dual vacuum system? Is there other weight savings you could employ to justify both systems?
 
Thanks, 
 
SZ
 
 

You're going to want turbo for Colorado flying, IMHO.. You're not going to find a Bravo with AC, let alone both. Therefore, Bravo with or without FIKI is your choice for this mission

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[ScottZ]

They may be rare, but can be found: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/218053405/2004-mooney-m20m-dx-bravo-piston-single-aircraft

[GaryP1007]

Hey Guys,
Presently a partner on a 58p, but not flying as much. Mission is Texas to Colorado, or Texas to Memphis. Mostly just my wife with some bags (call that 400 lbs). Is it crazy to do a Bravo or Ovation with a/c and FIKI? It is hot in Texas and I sometimes fly where icing could be a problem. If I had to choose one, it would be a/c. If the there are meaningful known icing reports I won't fly.  What kind of savings would you get if you went glass (GI-275s), and removed dual vacuum system? Is there other weight savings you could employ to justify both systems?
 
Thanks, 
 
SZ
 
 

I am looking for a partnership on a 58p or something similar due to UL constraints (902) in my Ovation with AC.

I love the Ovation and will keep it, but 25% of the time I need more carrying ability etc.

Too bed we aren’t located closer to each other the problem would be solved.


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[exM20K]

1 hour ago, ScottZ said:

Hey Guys,

Presently a partner on a 58p, but not flying as much. Mission is Texas to Colorado, or Texas to Memphis. Mostly just my wife with some bags (call that 400 lbs). Is it crazy to do a Bravo or Ovation with a/c and FIKI? It is hot in Texas and I sometimes fly where icing could be a problem. If I had to choose one, it would be a/c. If the there are meaningful known icing reports I won't fly.  What kind of savings would you get if you went glass (GI-275s), and removed dual vacuum system? Is there other weight savings you could employ to justify both systems?

 

Thanks, 

 

SZ

 

 

if your Colorado destination is east of the front range, the Ovation would be a good choice. The Kelly aerospace A/C is preferable to the factory unit because it is

• A little lighter
• positioned aft (better for CG)
• can be run via external power when you’re on the ground
• is not driven off the fragile and expensive starter adapter 
• has the potential for very little net weight increase if you can get approval to replace the two AGM batteries back there with lithium.

The Bravo that you found is interesting.  The DX Bravo’s had the GX low panel, IIRC, which is great for forward visibility.  I can’t tell from the photos if that is the case here. If you want to undertake a project, you could craft a really clean panel with all the new stuff. What’s the current UL? I have just under 900#, and that is mostly adequate for two people and bags for our 90% trip of 735 NM.

That price, however, is getting pretty close to an Acclaim.

-dan

[LANCECASPER]

38 minutes ago, ScottZ said:

They may be rare, but can be found: https://www.controller.com/listing/for-sale/218053405/2004-mooney-m20m-dx-bravo-piston-single-aircraft

This is probably one of two Bravos ever built with both, and the other one is a GX (G1000) with no vacuum pumps. The Bravo uses an engine-driven A/C compressor which makes a really tight engine compartment even worse.

It's a beautiful Bravo near the end of the Bravo steam gauge run, but the first thing that will need to be addressed on this one would be the engine gauges. The Moritz gauges on here are not supported and they go out one at a time and render the airplane not airworthy. You'll have to bite the bullet and drop $10,000 into a JPI930, MVP-50 or a Garmin EIS certified engine gauge system . If you were going to re-do the panel and get rid of the vacuum system it would be easy to have +/- $400,000 into this one pretty fast and as @exM20Kmentions, now you're in Acclaim territory.

[Schllc]

I live in south Florida and have had several mooney’s with AC, and two with fiki. 
I liked the AC, but I do not miss it at all and will probably not own another with AC. 
I didn’t really have any issues with the AC. Some here have had horror stories, and it worked well. But….

you really only need it briefly on the ground, and since I bought a cool scoop, I really just don’t miss it. It’s amazing how much air that little think brings in and between that and the door it’s more than adequate. 
id rather have the extra 100# of UL

[Fritz1]

I took the rear seats out of my FIKI Bravo, gives you almost 30lb UL, in summer I love the b-cool ice box, excellent cooling for $300, wired fused plug to #1 battery in baggage compartment, pre-cool in hangar when on battery minder with both batteries charging in parallel, get into cool airplane, start on #2 battery, cools during engine startup and taxi, runs about 1.5h with 15lb of ice, plenty for taxi, climb out and landing, ice box stays at home in winter when TKS tank is kept full

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, Fritz1 said:

I took the rear seats out of my FIKI Bravo, gives you almost 30lb UL, in summer I love the b-cool ice box, excellent cooling for $300, wired fused plug to #1 battery in baggage compartment, pre-cool in hangar when on battery minder with both batteries charging in parallel, get into cool airplane, start on #2 battery, cools during engine startup and taxi, runs about 1.5h with 15lb of ice, plenty for taxi, climb out and landing, ice box stays at home in winter when TKS tank is kept full

Ditto.  Learned quickly not to use block ice in the b-cool. Block slides around and dislodges the bilge pump.

also wired a breaker’d outlet to the #1 battery. 80% solution for 1% cost.

-dan

[A64Pilot]

When I flew in Central Tx we had a little saying, “climb and maintain 70” that is cruise altitude was determined by OAT, keep climbing until it’s 70F.

‘Once your there your fine and the ice box coolers work plenty long enough to get you there.

[rbp]

my friend who learned to fly in TX always said they best altitude to fly i at was 60 degrees