When Do You Think The Fight For General Aviation ATC User Fees Will Heat Up Again?

[1980Mooney]

It has been 10 years since the last fight for General Aviation ATC User Fees.  Prior to that it was debated in 2005.  With the coming Debt/Deficit impasse in Congress and possible (likely?) default this year spurring demands by some in Congress to reduce Gov't spending, the FAA will likely have its budget curtailed.  And everytime the FAA has a budget fight, General Aviation ATC User Fees come up as a possible "solution".  It seems likely to come up again.  

Commercial aviation sees GA Part 91 as parasites that freeload off the ATC system without pay its fair share of the cost.  The average Joe sees GA as a luxury hobby.   

In 2012 there was a proposal for GA to pay $100 "ATC User Fee" per flight.  The Senators fighting for GA in the past are gone - notably Sen, Inhofe. 

Will this be the "event", the year that we see the fight come back?

GA supporters in Senate join fight against user fees - AOPA

CHRG-112hhrg76498.pdf (govinfo.gov)

Impending User Fees: GA’s Most Serious Threat | Airport Journals

Are User Fees Coming? - FLYING Magazine

Fight against user fees heats up — General Aviation News

User Fees–Does General Aviation Already Pay “Fair Share”? | Airport Journals

 

 

[GeeBee]

Well for better or worse, this is why the alphabet organizations matter. They are like family, you have to support them, even when they are stupid.

 

[Matt M]

I think we have a huge advocate for us in Congress. Sam Graves is the Chairman of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure. This committee is responsible for the FAA reauthorization which is where those user fees would be identified. He is a longtime GA pilot. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/march/06/aopa-q-and-a-with-us-rep-sam-graves

[Matt M]

51 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Well for better or worse, this is why the alphabet organizations matter. They are like family, you have to support them, even when they are stupid.

 

Yup, and they keep asking for more money. Referencing the email from AOPA I received this week that annual dues went up.

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, Matt M said:

I think we have a huge advocate for us in Congress. Sam Graves is the Chairman of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure. This committee is responsible for the FAA reauthorization which is where those user fees would be identified. He is a longtime GA pilot. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2020/march/06/aopa-q-and-a-with-us-rep-sam-graves

Possibly but Graves is also a longtime proponent of "pay as you go" user fees to fund transportation infrastructure.  He has been pushing a Vehicle Mileage Tax since 2015.  A General Aviation "ATC User Fee" would be the perfect bullet to fit his pistol - either by flight or by hours flown.  He now has the reigns and 2 audiences that will support him - 1) It may fit the philosophy and play well with Scott Perry, Chair of the Freedom Caucus and on the Transportation Committee. Remember that he voted against the Aviation Funding Stability Act of 2021 (opposite of Graves' position).  And many in the new Congress - especially the critical outlying swing votes that don't give a crap about GA, will welcome the idea of any reduced burden on FAA funding due to more direct funding by General Aviation.  2)  Commercial Aviation, which I suspect will be very generous in campaign contributions, will also welcome its reduced burden of (currently near total) funding the ATC system.

House Panel Advances Bill Protecting FAA Operations During Shutdowns - Government Executive (govexec.com)

Roll the dice.....

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by 1980Mooney

[Parker_Woodruff]

It's always lost on me how government chooses the least efficient & economical means of taxation.

[GeeBee]

37 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

It's always lost on me how government chooses the least efficient & economical means of taxation.

Because it is not about raising revenue but controlling behavior both personal and economic.

 

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, Matt M said:

Yup, and they keep asking for more money. Referencing the email from AOPA I received this week that annual dues went up.

Do what I did and become a lifetime member and never pay dues again. Did it with EAA and Seaplane Pilots Assoc, too.

[Matt M]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

Possibly but Graves is also a longtime proponent of "pay as you go" user fees to fund transportation infrastructure.  He has been pushing a Vehicle Mileage Tax since 2015.  A General Aviation "ATC User Fee" would be the perfect bullet to fit his pistol - either by flight or by hours flown.  He now has the reigns and 2 audiences that will support him - 1) It may fit the philosophy and play well with Scott Perry, Chair of the Freedom Caucus and on the Transportation Committee. Remember that he voted against the Aviation Funding Stability Act of 2021 (opposite of Graves' position).  And many in the new Congress - especially the critical outlying swing votes that don't give a crap about GA, will welcome the idea of any reduced burden on FAA funding due to more direct funding by General Aviation.  2)  Commercial Aviation, which I suspect will be very generous in campaign contributions, will also welcome its reduced burden of (currently near total) funding the ATC system.

House Panel Advances Bill Protecting FAA Operations During Shutdowns - Government Executive (govexec.com)

Roll the dice.....

 

I definitely hear you. It is a toss up. On one hand Graves originally was against FAA privatization, but then switched sides and was all for it adding though that GA would be exempt from the fees associated with it. Privatization is definitely not the answer. Government contracting is highly inefficient. It’s all about the money.

[The Other Red Baron]

That is one way to create a real pilot shortage.  Medical school levels of debt and grinding out 1500 hours? No thanks.

[gacoon]

Can you imagine the cost increase to pilot training if this were to come to pass.  Especially for advanced training and building hours towards ATP.  

[A64Pilot]

It’s coming if it’s noticed. Just like 100LL being banned will happen if it’s gets attention.

There is a growing movement to tax the wealthy, and most see us owners of 50 yr old tiny airplanes as Wealthy.

Ocala instituted a $15 landing fee, so us locals no longer go there to eat lunch. Their intent was to keep the rif raft out so the Bizjets won’t be hindered

Institute a fee for ATC services, and people will stop calling them. We will see how droves of aircraft wandering around not talking to ATC enhances safety.

Both the majority of the FAA and all airlines see us as parasites, FAA tolerates us only because we help increase their number, but most of their Administration don’t like us, they keep talking about the aging aircraft problem.

[glbtrottr]

People hate us out of sheer ignorance.

”flying is for the rich”

- bought a two seater in annual for $13k.  Picking up another tomorrow for $16k.  Bought a 4 seater for $30. For the rich? I bet you mommy spent more on you when she bought that Escalade with knockoffs for you. 

“GA are parasites”

- you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.  Garmin lied when they overdramatized the burgeoning growth of aviation (instead of shrinkage) and demanded ADSB for my grandpa’s airplane in a mode C veil or class A airspace.  We pay our taxes through gas.  You don’t get to be a lying sack of garbage charging me gas taxes AND user fees - that’s the California way of making me pay for a freeway, charging me to build a carpool lane, and then take it away by leasing it to your buddies so they can make me pay for things a third time with Fastpass pretending I didn’t notice.  When I can pull up to an airline gate with my J3, then you can complain.  Otherwise, suck it. Besides, this ADSB you so clamored for should give you plenty of reason to use less controllers. 

“GA is not green”

- we fly one or two people at a time with more gas efficiency than your bad azz f150. 

“GA isn’t safe” 

Let’s look at the numbers of car accidents per operation versus the number of airplane accidents per operation.  Hmmm yeah, won’t bode well for cars. 
 

“Europe has a great pay as you go system”

- then move to Europe.  It sucks to fly there.  Pay to taxi in places, permit for each country, pay to file and fly, yeahno.  If you like communism and socialism, China and Russia will welcome you.  
 

frankly the age of Facebook and Instagram ruling people’s lives, choices and activities has pretty much turned me into a grumpy old man.  Get off my lawn!  Younger generations have questionable to non existent skills, instead enthusiastically pointing to the bare few members of their group that achieve while ignoring the vast masses that do not.  My IA friends, my engine overhauler buds, my high time pilot buddies and my old school airplane paint performers are all artists, engineers and achievers in their own right.  Intellectually lazy younger generations without curiosity or creativity beyond the keyboard and coding continue to give away our freedoms.  

Do I, having been raised in Europe, have strong feelings about user fees? Hmmm just a tad.
 

 

 

 

 

[Rwsavory]

Shades of Timmy.

[T. Peterson]

On 1/20/2023 at 7:32 PM, GeeBee said:

Because it is not about raising revenue but controlling behavior both personal and economic.

 

Spot on!

[Mark89114]

The FAA wastes so much money to start with, controllers retiring at 55 or so, or the massive empty concrete/asphalts I see at a lot of small rural airports, gold plated FBOs that cost $400 sq. Ft, runway expansions that cost $15 million for another 500 feet (KFCI), etc. and so on.  Use the money you have wisely maybe we can discuss more money after that. 

[Canadian Gal]

Amazing how they spend $25,000,000 to do something that the private sector can do for $1,000,000 and in 5% of the time.

When the government put in a new culvert under my road in 2019, for a small creek that flows maybe 100 days per year, they made it into a huge deal.

It took them a month, and a lot of equipment and people.

To do what I alone could have done in a day, with 1 excavator. I hate just thinking about what that cost us tax payers.

[carusoam]

There’s probably a government vs. private sector thread around here…

Covering several governments around the world…

 

Best regards,

-a-