External battery jumpers - question

[Bolter]

Something not stated explicitly in this thread, if you are using a smart charger, or trickle charger, you will need a low power 12V DC source to connect to the activation pin at all times.  The smart charger will cycle on and off, running high and low currents as required, but must always read the battery voltage.  If you rely on the charger to keep the activation pin energized, you will eventually end up with the charger not connected when it goes to monitor mode instead of charge mode.  @wishboneash hooked up a scope and discussed the results in another thread.  Very useful 

Based on that research, when I had a 12V 201, I wired a plug with a cheap hobby 12VDC source to the relay pin and the ground.   The batteryminder charger was connected to the positive and the ground. You could hear the relay click when I turned on the little 12 VDC supply.  The batteryminder then worked exactly as it should.  

[A64Pilot]

I just connected my float charger directly to the battery, thereby not putting wear on the solenoid.

[Pinecone]

There is a J a couple hangers down from me.  He put a hole in the side of the socket for the ground power and has the Battery Minder plug come out there.

If he ever has to use the ground power plug, he can push the Batter Minder plug through the hole.  Then at some later time, pull the panel and reinsert the plug in the hole.

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I just connected my float charger directly to the battery, thereby not putting wear on the solenoid.

Did you have to disconnect anything for the float charger to work correctly?

[A64Pilot]

38 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Did you have to disconnect anything for the float charger to work correctly?

No, 
     You do need to fuse the positive wire close to the battery, I ran the plug out to the APU plug so just open the door and plug it in. If you get stupid and pull the aircraft out it will unplug prior to hurting anything

The wire that comes with float chargers is fused, has the correct plug but is vinyl wire which isn’t approved for aircraft, so there is that.

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

I did exactly the same thing running the float charger plug up along side the APU plug.  There is just enough gap between the APU plug housing and the opening in the spring closing door, that I strapped it to the side of the housing.  I can just open the door and plug either the float charger or my APU cart 3 pin plug - depending on the need.

What plug did you use?

[Beard]

I ran a cable from the battery into the baggage compartment on my J. I then open the baggage door when the plane is in it hangar and hook it up to the float charger. I have a cap that goes on the end of the cable when not charging so it does not ground out.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

Due to alignment, I had a wider space on one side of the APU port.  I used some contact cement and zip tie to hold in place against the APU plug receptacle.  I can just open the door and insert - and put the cover on when not using.  It is fused of course.

 

 

I'm not sure if you've heard, but the kind of plugs pictured above are not FAA approved and are only used by vile scofflaws and RV owners who wear flight suits. 

The cheap vinyl insulator on the wire between the battery and the disconnect is only slightly better than 120 year old knob-and-tube is not FAA approved for aircraft use.  However, the same cheap vinyl has been deemed perfectly acceptable for the powered side of the disconnect plug.  It is especially safe to run the unapproved power side of the wiring inside the cabin baggage door so that one can smugly post images highlighting the difference between safety conscious pilots and outlaws while also showcasing one's regulatory (if not logical) piety.   Go forth and repent. You may cleanse your sins by making an offering to Batteryminder in the amount $75 to replace your filthy plug with a blessed one. 

[amillet]

That’s the factory plug that came with my battery minder.  I have the same setup

[EricJ]

37 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I'm not sure if you've heard, but the kind of plugs pictured above are not FAA approved and are only used by vile scofflaws and RV owners who wear flight suits. 

The cheap vinyl insulator on the wire between the battery and the disconnect is only slightly better than 120 year old knob-and-tube is not FAA approved for aircraft use.  However, the same cheap vinyl has been deemed perfectly acceptable for the powered side of the disconnect plug.  It is especially safe to run the unapproved power side of the wiring inside the cabin baggage door so that one can smugly post images highlighting the difference between safety conscious pilots and outlaws while also showcasing one's regulatory (if not logical) piety.   Go forth and repent. You may cleanse your sins by making an offering to Batteryminder in the amount $75 to replace your filthy plug with a blessed one. 

Our airport makes us use the approved kit, and we have to hang the note with the airport manager's signature in the hangar to indicate we've been inspected as compliant.   They used to call it "the DVT kit" since I guess this is where that started.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/audioathaik.php

[Shadrach]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

Our airport makes us use the approved kit, and we have to hang the note with the airport manager's signature in the hangar to indicate we've been inspected as compliant.   They used to call it "the DVT kit" since I guess this is where that started.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/audioathaik.php

Well, I for one am glad to learn that the DVT airport authority is so focused on safety and accountability.  The results are easy to see. No aircraft or hangar at DVT has burned due to these illegal plugs. The administrators should be celebrated as the reason tragedy has been avoided.  I should hope that they require the FAA "approved" plugs on ground based vehicles as well. It's just the right thing to do.  Maybe next they can do something about those pretentious flight suits.

[Shadrach]

3 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

At our airport here in Texas you cannot leave a charger on while unattended.  So you can only charge while you stand there and watch.  No overnight charging.  

It's for your own good and the safety of others.  I hope that they don't leave unattended cell phones plugged in at the office. You can never be too careful. My wife and I sleep in shifts to ensure nothing goes awry with our chargers.

[A64Pilot]

You laugh about this but one time at about 3PM one Fri my unit Safety Officer wanted to climb my arse because I had some aircraft in the hangar that were ungrounded and gasp maybe the battery wasn’t yet disconnected.

It was Fri and so he was going home early, as Aircraft “down time” was calculated by the hour and as weekends counted, my Fridays ended whenever every part we had was installed and the aircraft test flown or MOC’d, if that was 10 O’clock then that’s when we left. Same thing any day, but Fridays especially.

I had apparently a bad day, so I climbed his arse and asked where where he parked his cars? He said the garage of course. I said the one right beside of your daughters bedroom? Yes he said, so I added well I’m certain you of course ground the cars and disconnect the battery then? He turned around and walked off.

See aircraft are special, to fuel one you have to ground the truck, ground the aircraft and then bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft or it will explode. Automobiles? Just pull up, ground nothing and fill up. Automobiles aren’t special.

But as a charger could catch fire I make sure nothing within several feet of them can burn. I have five in my hanger on all the time. Two aircraft, two cars and one on my fuel tank. I need to move the one on the fuel tank I guess

[mooniac15u]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

See aircraft are special, to fuel one you have to ground the truck, ground the aircraft and then bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft or it will explode. Automobiles? Just pull up, ground nothing and fill up. Automobiles aren’t special.

Automobile gas pumps are grounded through the hose.  The metal handle/nozzle makes contact with the car and there's a wire embedded in the hose.

[Shadrach]

3 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

No doubt you are equally worried about the safety of storing highly combustible fuel in vented containers in your hangar.  I am sure you will tell us that you never do it......

Do my best to run the last tank dry during the taxi back to the hangar. If I get the speed right I have just enough inertia to make the last turn down my hangar row. One can’t be too careful!

[EricJ]

16 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

Automobile gas pumps are grounded through the hose.  The metal handle/nozzle makes contact with the car and there's a wire embedded in the hose.

The car is also continuously grounded through the tires.   They're high-resistance so the static drain is slow, but it's continuous and effective.   I think aviation fuel pumps ground through the hose as well, but you don't want the initial contact static spark happening right at the tank inlet.

 

[larryb]

 

 

Standard Molex plug, standard aviation tefzel wire, connected directly to battery, fused at the battery positive terminal.

 

 

[A64Pilot]

5 hours ago, EricJ said:

The car is also continuously grounded through the tires.   They're high-resistance so the static drain is slow, but it's continuous and effective.   I think aviation fuel pumps ground through the hose as well, but you don't want the initial contact static spark happening right at the tank inlet.

 

If a car is grounded through the tires, why isn’t an aircraft?

On edit, the AH-64 drug a ground wire from its tailwheel, a rotor system can build up a phenomenal amount of static

I believe ALL fuel hoses have a wire that bonds the metal ends and therefore the nozzle the the tank etc, every one I’ve had did anyway, farm and marine hoses. Dong know what’s special about Marine hoses but they are marked differently.

Military we still had to connect a wire from the nozzle to the airframe prior to connecting the CCR nozzle to the aircraft.

If your really paranoid like maybe in real cold dry weather touch the nozzle to the aircraft prior to sticking it into the tank, and fuel falling through the air can also generate static, why tankers are either bottom loaded or have long dip tubes so there is no free falling fuel.

[N201MKTurbo]

28 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

If a car is grounded through the tires, why isn’t an aircraft?

I believe ALL fuel hoses have a wire that bonds the metal ends and therefore the nozzle the the tank etc, every one I’ve had did anyway, farm and marine hoses. Dong know what’s special about Marine hoses but they are marked differently.

Military we still had to connect a wire from the nozzle to the airframe prior to connecting the CCR nozzle to the aircraft.

If your really paranoid like maybe in real cold dry weather touch the nozzle to the aircraft prior to sticking it into the tank, and fuel falling through the air can also generate static, why tankers are either bottom loaded or have long dip tubes so there is no free falling fuel.

Only the fuel hoses with the yellow stripe have a ground path between the fittings.

[A64Pilot]

7 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Only the fuel hoses with the yellow stripe have a ground path between the fittings.

Not all, see attached photo and link

https://www.fillrite.com/fuel-transfer-hose-3-4-x-20-frh07520

 

[N201MKTurbo]

5 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Not all, see attached photo and link

https://www.fillrite.com/fuel-transfer-hose-3-4-x-20-frh07520

 

That looks like a boat, not a gas pump at an airport.

[A64Pilot]

That’s in my hanger, I laid the hose on my golf cart to take the pic.

I have my own 285 gl tank, fuel jobber delivers fuel once a month, I rarely buy fuel at an airport. Most of us in my Airpark have our own tanks. We get it cheaper than pretty much any airport sells it and it’s much more convenient 

But even on the farm my fuel hoses said they had a static wire in them, until I read that I’d never thought about it. makes sense though. I’d bet it’s some kind of safety requirement.

 

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

See aircraft are special, to fuel one you have to ground the truck, ground the aircraft and then bond the fuel nozzle to the aircraft or it will explode. Automobiles? Just pull up, ground nothing and fill up. Automobiles aren’t special.

 

Auto fueling rigs are grounded through the nozzle and hose.  Aircraft nozzles can be used without the nozzle touching the tank/filler metal.

[Shadrach]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:47 PM, Pinecone said:

 

Auto fueling rigs are grounded through the nozzle and hose.  Aircraft nozzles can be used without the nozzle touching the tank/filler metal.

Not sure why this matters. If there is a charge, isn't it going to spark before the nozzle is grounded to the filler neck? I thought the point of external grounding was to discharge in an area away from fuel vapor.

[PeteMc]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:47 PM, Pinecone said:

Aircraft nozzles can be used without the nozzle touching the tank/filler metal.

"Can" or did you mean "...can't be used without the nozzle touching the tank/filler metal."   In my Mooney and all the Cessnas and Pipers I flew early on, there's no way I could guarantee not touching the metal.