Power settings M20TN

[the acclaim Mario]

Hello Guys,

I am new to the forum. My name is Mario and for the last 9 months I have owned an Acclaim. I recently decided to start flying it after thinking about selling it for a few months. I am quite happy with the decision but I need advise as to how you guys are flying the bird. 
I recently took a trip to Oregon and back home. On my way back, I took the Acclaim to 17.5k feet and the plane was doing 200 knots at 27” MP, 19 gallons/hr, 75 degrees ROP. 
After landing, I read that is not the way to fly this thing. I read some videos where it is recommended to fly LOP at this settings. I also saw that at 17 gallons an hour LOP, the TAS is more like 217 knots. 
Some video I watched from Mike Busch said to always run the MP at the firewall and only use the prop pitch and mixture. Do any of you use this procedure??
Can someone enlighten me on how to operate this thing or who to talk to?

I can provide my number  by PM.

By the way, I finally love my Acclaim!

Thanks in advance.

[KSMooniac]

Check out the advanced pilot seminar web course.

https://www.advancedpilot.com/onlinecourse.html

Every pilot and especially owner should take this! It will answer all of your questions, especially the ones you don't know to ask right now.

Sent from my LM-V450 using Tapatalk

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, the acclaim Mario said:

Some video I watched from Mike Busch said to always run the MP at the firewall and only use the prop pitch and mixture. Do any of you use this procedure??

Is there any chance Mike was discussing a normally aspirated engine?

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Mario!

The acclaim is an interesting and capable bird…

But, to get the answer to this simple question… it may help to know if you have the 310hp or the 280hp version…

This topic usually gets covered in Transition Training…

Where you can experiment with fuel flow, cylinder cooling, rpm and MP…. While keeping an eye on TITs and CHTs….

 

Let’s see if 

@Schllc Is around…

If there is an easy answer to the question… he may have some input…

Best regards,

-a-

[EarthboundMisfit]

16 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

 

Is there any chance Mike was discussing a normally aspirated engine?

I second the recommendation on doing the APS course, especially the classroom course (they have an online version too). 

Busch fly's a turbo'd twin Cessna, but WOT operation is recommended for N/A and forced induction as it's the most efficient throttle setting.  It applies regardless of rated horsepower.  An engine that breathes well (look up GAMI spread) is usually a good candidate. 

Lots of great articles on engine management by John Deakin here - https://www.avweb.com/topics/features/avweb-classics/pelicans-perch/ 

Martin Pauly does a good explainer on ROP and LOP -

 

I'm not near you, but would volunteer some time to discuss it if I was. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by EarthboundMisfit

[Fly Boomer]

On 9/25/2022 at 8:57 PM, the acclaim Mario said:

Some video I watched from Mike Busch said to always run the MP at the firewall and only use the prop pitch and mixture. Do any of you use this procedure??

Can you share a link to this video?  Thanks!

[the acclaim Mario]

On 9/27/2022 at 12:47 AM, carusoam said:

Welcome aboard Mario!

The acclaim is an interesting and capable bird…

But, to get the answer to this simple question… it may help to know if you have the 310hp or the 280hp version…

This topic usually gets covered in Transition Training…

Where you can experiment with fuel flow, cylinder cooling, rpm and MP…. While keeping an eye on TITs and CHTs….

 

Let’s see if 

@Schllc Is around…

If there is an easy answer to the question… he may have some input…

Best regards,

-a-

Hi Guys....

sorry it took a bit to respond. I spoke with Schllc on the phone and he gave me some pretty awesome advise. 

My plane has the 280 hp engine on it.

I am going to fly it to Vegas tomorrow and will try lean of peak settings and see what happens.

[the acclaim Mario]

On 9/27/2022 at 2:49 PM, Fly Boomer said:

Can you share a link to this video?  Thanks!

here is the video I was referring to:

 

[carusoam]

Important single point regarding LOP…

If power is kept below 65%bhp… no damage will occur from running LOP….

Of course, PIC is still responsible for keeping track of CHTs, EGTs, and TITs…

 

When climbing out ROP… do you use the G1000 white box technique?

Not much of a technique for a constant MP engine…   

Best regards,

-a-

[Schllc]

You do not lean in the climb at all in the acclaim. 

[Mcstealth]

On 9/29/2022 at 8:45 AM, the acclaim Mario said:

Hi Guys....

sorry it took a bit to respond. I spoke with Schllc on the phone and he gave me some pretty awesome advise. 

My plane has the 280 hp engine on it.

I am going to fly it to Vegas tomorrow and will try lean of peak settings and see what happens.

What did you find out?

[Danb]

As schlic don’t lean in climb under normal situations also Busch firewall forward was in regard to NA power plants, don’t go ff in your acclaim. I’d strongly consider your desired fuel flow, lean but don’t exceed typical TITs, this is most important. Keeping your engine cool extends its life. You’ve got arguably the best traveling plane made, get quality transition time with an Acclaim instructor any other type will be a waste.

[M20TN_Driver]

Hi Mario.  I fly a 2008 Acclaim Type S and I too love the plane!  Mine is a TKS equipped so a little slower than the smooth wing versions.  Mine is 280HP and has almost 2100hrs on the engine (topped at 620hrs though).

I rarely fly ROP because 1) gas is expensive and 2) The Type S usually fly's pretty darn quick LOP as it is.

My typical cruise setting is 27MP/2400RPM. I'll lean usually 65-80 LOP.  This will get me approximately 180kts at 10k ft and faster as I go higher.  At those settings, I am burning about 14.2-14.5 GPH.  I live in Reno so I am usually always at or above 12k ft if I am alone.  With passenger I try to keep it lower so they don't have to go on 02.  Off the top fo my head I would guess at 17-18k Ft I would be getting around 200kts at those settings.  

If you want to ping me for a discussion, happy to share my (limited) experience.

 

 

[M20TN_Driver]

Mario-- I should also ay that Saavy (Mike Busch's company) manages my airplane as well.  I used to Lean on Climb out, but they quickly corrected me on this as well.  The whole game is about keeping the cylinders cool in that situation so I was told to climb with everything fire-walled until I reach my target altitude.  That does in fact keep things cool, but burns a lot of fuel to do it.  Others may have a different experiences.  

Further, I have about a .2GPH Gami Spread and I worked hard to get that with GAMI.  The tuned injectors that come stock in the engine do pretty well, but I was looking for best operation LOP and you need a tight GAMI spread to get that IMHO.  

[keithmiller]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:55 AM, M20TN_Driver said:

Hi Mario.  I fly a 2008 Acclaim Type S and I too love the plane!  Mine is a TKS equipped so a little slower than the smooth wing versions.  Mine is 280HP and has almost 2100hrs on the engine (topped at 620hrs though).

I rarely fly ROP because 1) gas is expensive and 2) The Type S usually fly's pretty darn quick LOP as it is.

My typical cruise setting is 27MP/2400RPM. I'll lean usually 65-80 LOP.  This will get me approximately 180kts at 10k ft and faster as I go higher.  At those settings, I am burning about 14.2-14.5 GPH.  I live in Reno so I am usually always at or above 12k ft if I am alone.  With passenger I try to keep it lower so they don't have to go on 02.  Off the top fo my head I would guess at 17-18k Ft I would be getting around 200kts at those settings.  

If you want to ping me for a discussion, happy to share my (limited) experience.

 

 

I fly my acclaim at the same settings . I took it doe to continental motors FBO IN FOLEY Alabama last month and they did some tuning on the induction system to get it smoother and very happy with the results.. Great shop And people , also they are a garmin dealer and the Avonics hanger is next door … 

 

[Schllc]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:02 PM, M20TN_Driver said:

Mario-- I should also ay that Saavy (Mike Busch's company) manages my airplane as well.  I used to Lean on Climb out, but they quickly corrected me on this as well.  The whole game is about keeping the cylinders cool in that situation so I was told to climb with everything fire-walled until I reach my target altitude.  That does in fact keep things cool, but burns a lot of fuel to do it.  Others may have a different experiences.  

Further, I have about a .2GPH Gami Spread and I worked hard to get that with GAMI.  The tuned injectors that come stock in the engine do pretty well, but I was looking for best operation LOP and you need a tight GAMI spread to get that IMHO.  

A more positive way to think about it…

at 1,000 fmp, a climb to 18k is only 18min and at proper fuel flow it’s under 10gallons. 
you make up at least very close to that on your descent. 

[LANCECASPER]

Not taking into account winds, but on turbo-charged airplanes and especially turbine airplanes, for efficiency, climb as high as you can, as quickly as you can and stay there as long as you can. Full power climbs, adjusting rate for temperature if needed, are the way to go. Lower power climbs take longer and burn nearly the same amount of fuel by the time you get to your efficient cruise settings at cruising altitude.

[carusoam]

And if….

You have the TopProp… with Acclaim (thin) blades…

There is efficiency to be gained using 2550 rpm…

Something to add to the cruise consideration…

 

And the 310hp STC still applies….  

 

When climbing to the FLs… for 18 minutes… the extra 30bhp really counts!

See discussions regarding FF during climb, and keeping CHTs in check, with full power….

Best regards,

-a-

[M20TN_Driver]

Agreed--I'll fly high when alone for sure.  I don't have the STC--just a stock Acclaim Type S.  So the 2550 RPM isn't an option for me.  I heard that most of the benefit of that STC was a faster climb and shorter takeoff roll--not really better cruise.  Is that actually true or is there a cruise performance benefit as well?

[exM20K]

On 10/28/2022 at 8:05 AM, Danb said:

You’ve got arguably the best traveling plane made

This.  Mine is a 310HP TKS Type S.  I have flown it 800 hours during my six year ownership.  If you’re ok with a piston single, aren’t fat and don’t have fat or many PAX, can deal with the nose hose (O2D2 with flared cannula or beam installed make O2 much more comfortable) there really is nothing that can compare.  PA46, while pressurized, climbs like a wounded duck. Various TN Bonanzas are significantly slower.  twins other than AEST are slower and gas hogs.  For @the acclaim Mario here are my numbers with this preamble: TKS costs 10KTAS where I fly, mostly 16,000 and 17,000.

• Full power climb 33.5 x 2700.  35GPH and an astounding 1200-1500. FPM climb rate at 130 KTAS all the way up.
• 16.5 +/- 0.2 fuel flow with last-to-peak cylinder 50* LOP. 16.5 * 13.5 = 226 HP, which is about 70% of 310.
• CHT’s are all below 335 unless it is really hot out.
• cruise is around 205 KTAS.
• can operate comfortably at MTOW/ MLW in and out of a 2550’ strip with practice. Mostly.  There are days…..

I have found the fuel system to be finicky, much more so than the induction or exhaust systems.  Make sure your fuel setup metered and unmetered pressure at full power as well as unmetered pressure at idle are set up right.  A high idle, or a unstable idle which impels you to keep a hair of power in will really stretch the landing distances.

I do recommend the 310 HP STC.  It transforms the takeoff and climb for very small money.

 

hang on to your Acclaim.  They’re not making any more, and there is nothing that compares if it fits your mission.

-dan

 

 

[exM20K]

1 hour ago, M20TN_Driver said:

Agreed--I'll fly high when alone for sure.  I don't have the STC--just a stock Acclaim Type S.  So the 2550 RPM isn't an option for me.  I heard that most of the benefit of that STC was a faster climb and shorter takeoff roll--not really better cruise.  Is that actually true or is there a cruise performance benefit as well?

Not for me.  The excess power is for takeoff and climb. Power is great for that and not so great for going fast. 
I think the STC and governor work was something like $4.5 AMU’S.  Bargain.

you could fly around at 2700 and 80% power ROP, but why?  For another 10-15 KTAS? 5% speed gain. 25% more fuel.  Nah.

-dan