Raptor05121 Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 WOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted September 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 48 minutes ago, jetdriven said: Something doesn’t add up here. I have the camshaft sitting in a box at my office. Looks like a new camshaft. Asked a bunch of folks how this would happen, not gotten a clear answer. But, I guess the good and bad news is that we caught it early. Had it not been for a poor top job, we would have never pulled the cylinders, and wouldn’t have found it. I was in shock, denial, and disbelief about it. I thought I was just having to redo cylinders, and then found out I would be going through this again, at an even worse time. It took me 9 months to from start to finish on overhaul 2.0 with Zephyr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 47 minutes ago, 201Steve said: I have the camshaft sitting in a box at my office. Looks like a new camshaft. Asked a bunch of folks how this would happen, not gotten a clear answer. I'm wondering whether it was potentially reground and not properly nitrided (hardened) afterward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Cruiser said: does that include the M20J w/TKS out of an Indiana dealer ? I was looking at that one. No that wasn’t one of them. A Cirrus from Minnesota, a Cessna from Texas and a Piper from Nevada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 2 hours ago, EricJ said: I'm wondering whether it was potentially reground and not properly nitrided (hardened) afterward. I asked Aircraft Specialty Services about regrinding cams. They said they don’t re-harden them after they grind them. They just grind them and test the hardness and if they ground through the hard layer, they scrap the cam. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted September 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: I asked Aircraft Specialty Services about regrinding cams. They said they don’t re-harden them after they grind them. This is what I eventually received regarding documentation of parts used. Who knows if these went into my airplane or not but it’s what I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted September 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 13 hours ago, EricJ said: 'm wondering whether it was potentially reground and not properly nitrided (hardened) afterward. When we sent the photos to Jewell for their feedback, he told me he didn’t see anything wrong with it. “You can’t tell much from a picture, but it looks fine to me”. 5 other engine experts disagreed entirely with that position. I did have to make sure I wasn’t being unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Ellis Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 I’m not a mechanic and this following comment will support that but from your photos it looks like they took your airplane, held onto it for a little while, did nothing to it and returned it to you saying “okay, you’re done.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will.iam Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 14 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said: I’m not a mechanic and this following comment will support that but from your photos it looks like they took your airplane, held onto it for a little while, did nothing to it and returned it to you saying “okay, you’re done.” Well if they did nothing to it at least he would not have had a cht prob dangling unsecured. They did at least put a wrench to that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 13 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: I asked Aircraft Specialty Services about regrinding cams. They said they don’t re-harden them after they grind them. They just grind them and test the hardness and if they ground through the hard layer, they scrap the cam. I have heard this about Airmark -- I guess they don't have the capability to harden them after grinding, or whoever they send the cams to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 Aircraft Specialty Services sells new parts and is the largest and most respected Aircraft engine parts machine shop. I believe they do outstanding work. Without the money columns, it’s hard to tell if the parts were new or reworked. I could check my invoices to see if they bill reworked parts differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 7 hours ago, 201Steve said: When we sent the photos to Jewell for their feedback, he told me he didn’t see anything wrong with it. “You can’t tell much from a picture, but it looks fine to me”. 5 other engine experts disagreed entirely with that position. I did have to make sure I wasn’t being unreasonable. Did you send the pics to Aircraft Specialty Services and ask about them? If they supplied the cam and it had an early failure they might be interested and able to provide some opinion/info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
201Steve Posted September 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 1 minute ago, EricJ said: Did you send the pics to Aircraft Specialty Services and ask about them? If they supplied the cam and it had an early failure they might be interested and able to provide some opinion/info. I probably should. That’s a good idea. Of course, they didn’t sell it to me so how much help they would be is a question mark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted September 4, 2022 Report Share Posted September 4, 2022 40 minutes ago, 201Steve said: I probably should. That’s a good idea. Of course, they didn’t sell it to me so how much help they would be is a question mark. I had the feeling they value their reputation and would like to make this right if it was indeed their fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 6, 2022 Report Share Posted September 6, 2022 Yikes… Horrible story. Well written details! Awesome pirep regarding Jewell aviation’s horrible performance… I’m glad to be able to read the details… Thanks for taking the time to write them down… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffy Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 On 9/6/2022 at 2:17 AM, carusoam said: Yikes… Horrible story. Well written details! Awesome pirep regarding Jewell aviation’s horrible performance… I’m glad to be able to read the details… Thanks for taking the time to write them down… Best regards, On 9/6/2022 at 2:17 AM, carusoam said: I agree. I avoided this sort of thing on my overhaul by hiring the guy in my mirror every morning, :-) I'm lucky as I can legally do the overhaul in my garage (which I did). After 9 years and 900+ hrs I still have not seen any metal in my oil filters at any oil change. Engine runs great! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted September 10, 2022 Report Share Posted September 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, cliffy said: I agree. I avoided this sort of thing on my overhaul by hiring the guy in my mirror every morning, :-) I'm lucky as I can legally do the overhaul in my garage (which I did). After 9 years and 900+ hrs I still have not seen any metal in my oil filters at any oil change. Engine runs great! Don’t be surprised… when my engine comes to visit…. It’s still decades away… time frame wise… Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLev Posted March 19, 2023 Report Share Posted March 19, 2023 I had my engine done with them and David in Feb of 2018. Since then, I have about 820 hours on their overhaul. No metal in the filter, but it has been seeping quite a bit of oil lately. My A&P tried to address it at annual and said "I believe the majority of the oil leak was the loose oil line return clamps. They're an oddball type (thumb screw, not a hex screw) this engine builder used so I had to improvise to tighten them all but I got them. Checked oil pan bolts and accessory case bolts too. All those were fine." What he did helped for the first few hours of the flight since annual, but the seepage is back now, so I'll have to see about addressing it. I was quite enthusiastic about Jewell's work (on time, budget), but it's disheartening to hear about your experience and it makes me feel a little slightly less confident flying with their overhaul, although it's held up to a lot of flying for the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austintatious Posted March 19, 2023 Report Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) Wow, what a story... I have been saying that the most disappointing/frustrating thing about owning ones own aircraft is getting good maintenance... If it isn't gross incompetence, it's being charged for the A&P to learn how to do the job on my dime with a 30 min job taking 2 hours.... I had a guy drop my aircraft's nose off the spinner jack (yuck!!) during an annual, gouged the new paint then disappeared without fixing it... I cant find anyone who has any idea how to actually adjust the Rockets fuel settings properly. Some jaghole put the wrong nose tire on it. One of our Rockets was outfitted with 28v prop heaters... the aircraft is 12v !!!! HOW!!!! And the kicker is that I could and would do all of this $4!7 myself... cheaper, better, safer and faster... if not for the FAA prohibiting me from working on my own 40 year old private aircraft... Yet somehow if it was a Glassair 3 or Lanciar 4, that was heavier, faster, newer and carried more fuel, I could go to town on it. Sure, THAT makes a lot of sense... I fly as a career, so I will not risk doing anything illegal or not the way it is supposed to be done. But I have to wonder how many people out there are just saying "Screw it" and working on their own aircraft without being an A&P.... I wouldn't blame them. Edited March 19, 2023 by Austintatious 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted March 19, 2023 Report Share Posted March 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, Austintatious said: Wow, what a story... I have been saying that the most disappointing/frustrating thing about owning ones own aircraft is getting good maintenance... If it isn't gross incompetence, it's being charged for the A&P to learn how to do the job on my dime with a 30 min job taking 2 hours.... I had a guy drop my aircraft's nose off the spinner jack (yuck!!) during an annual, gouged the new paint then disappeared without fixing it... I cant find anyone who has any idea how to actually adjust the Rockets fuel settings properly. Some jaghole put the wrong nose tire on it. One of our Rockets was outfitted with 28v prop heaters... the aircraft is 12v !!!! HOW!!!! And the kicker is that I could and would do all of this $4!7 myself... cheaper, better, safer and faster... if not for the FAA prohibiting me from working on my own 40 year old private aircraft... Yet somehow if it was a Glassair 3 or Lanciar 4, that was heavier, faster, newer and carried more fuel, I could go to town on it. Sure, THAT makes a lot of sense... I fly as a career, so I will not risk doing anything illegal or not the way it is supposed to be done. But I have to wonder how many people out there are just saying "Screw it" and working on their own aircraft without being an A&P.... I wouldn't blame them. A lot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted March 19, 2023 Report Share Posted March 19, 2023 I guess I have to ask @201Stevewhy not Gann in LaFayette, GA? You could have driven over there, work is top shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted March 19, 2023 Report Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 minute ago, GeeBee said: I guess I have to ask @201Steve why not Gann in LaFayette, GA? You could have driven over there, work is top shelf. @201Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytonabch04 Posted March 20, 2023 Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 40 minutes ago, Evan said: Where is the oil "seeping" at? A common joke around here is if Lycoming isn't leaking, you've run out of oil. Obviously, take this with a grain of salt. I'm at about 60 hours on my Jewell engine. Really no oil leaks. What was your break in procedures for a new/OH engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2023 Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 On 3/19/2023 at 6:40 PM, Austintatious said: Wow, what a story... I have been saying that the most disappointing/frustrating thing about owning ones own aircraft is getting good maintenance... If it isn't gross incompetence, it's being charged for the A&P to learn how to do the job on my dime with a 30 min job taking 2 hours.... I had a guy drop my aircraft's nose off the spinner jack (yuck!!) during an annual, gouged the new paint then disappeared without fixing it... I cant find anyone who has any idea how to actually adjust the Rockets fuel settings properly. Some jaghole put the wrong nose tire on it. One of our Rockets was outfitted with 28v prop heaters... the aircraft is 12v !!!! HOW!!!! And the kicker is that I could and would do all of this $4!7 myself... cheaper, better, safer and faster... if not for the FAA prohibiting me from working on my own 40 year old private aircraft... Yet somehow if it was a Glassair 3 or Lanciar 4, that was heavier, faster, newer and carried more fuel, I could go to town on it. Sure, THAT makes a lot of sense... I fly as a career, so I will not risk doing anything illegal or not the way it is supposed to be done. But I have to wonder how many people out there are just saying "Screw it" and working on their own aircraft without being an A&P.... I wouldn't blame them. By the same token, if you’re going to take your plane to a shop that knows how to do every job without some reading or learning, you sure won’t like the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted March 20, 2023 Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 1 minute ago, M20Doc said: By the same token, if you’re going to take your plane to a shop that knows how to do every job without some reading or learning, you sure won’t like the price. You can have the job done right, done quickly and done inexpensively; pick any two. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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