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EDM 900 initial order question


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Hope this is the best place to post this ask.

I’m trying to set up my order for an EDM 900 and the order form asks 

Pressure transducer fitting size to ship:

Adapter, 3/8-24 UNJF Male (AN-3)x1/8” NPTF 

or

Adapter, 7/16-20 UNJF Male (AN-4)x1/8” NPTF

I’ve tried to exhaust every avenue for information through Mooney parts catalogs and install manuals, and I can’t seem to find the answer I’m looking for. 

Does this vary for the M20 series, or can I expect a specific size hose interfaces (AN-3 or AN-4)?

Aircraft details:

1966 M20E w/ manual turbo

GEM 603

DAVTRON M655

Shadin Miniflo-L

I do intend to remove all of these gauges on install as well as fuel, tach, MP…

Below is a current pic of the panel.
I already have a GNX 375 standing by for install to get me ADSB compliant. 

I feel silly that I haven’t been able to figure this one out without getting under the cowling. 
Thank you for any help on this. 
- Sean

IMG_8759.jpg

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You are overthinking this.  The transducers over the years come with a variety of threads, 1/8 NPT, 1/4NPT, AN etc.  JPI ships with adaptors to fit AN fittings (last time I ordered).  You probably have some existing hoses for MP, Oil P etc. with AN fittings, and ideally you can try get JPI to ship an adaptor to match, but will probably fail.

Order the kit from me, start your installation, and I'll steer you in the right direction to get the required hoses, adaptors etc.

Once you start the installation, you will understand what I am talking about.

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

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Welcome aboard Citadel…

Sounds like first time owner questions…

1) You know digital instruments aren’t going to be found in your manuals from 1966… anywhere….

2) Have you tried asking JPI customer service…?  Could you find JPI’s customer service? (Even I have difficulty finding them) :)

3) You are installing a nice piece of kit that is capable of replacing many of your primary engine instruments…

4) Trying to do this on your own is going to have many challenges… it always helps to have a mechanic that is familiar with both this instrument and Mooneys…

5) See Aerodon’s invitation above… He is in the business of building some really nice instrument panels for Mooneys….

When discussing your project… it may be helpful to mention that you are working with your mechanic installing this device…

 

PP thoughts only,

-a-

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Hey Citadel,

Just a PIREP from someone in the process of installing a JPI EDM 930, JPI is massively delayed right now. We ordered the 930 on May 9th with an expected ship date of 4-6 weeks and still haven't received it 16 weeks (3.5 months) later. JPI is saying 10-wk turn around but that's certainly not been our experience. There are industry-wide issues, but just a PIREP for your timeline planning!

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All,

Thanks for the info and guidance!

Is the first time owner that obvious?!? -_-  I'm early in the process for getting the 900, so thanks for the PIREP as well.  My GNX delivery was the same way.  It was ordered in February and just arrived at the shop last week!  I do expect to remove a significant number of engine instruments with this installation and update my fuel senders while I'm at it.  With those lead times, I may tie it to my annual since I will have it opened up for that already.

My vision (at least for this year):

GNX 375 install - remove ARGUS, GPS 2" CDI, Xpdr, & ADF

EDM 900 install - replace fuel senders w/ CIES; remove RPM, MP, FF, DAVTRON, GEM, & engine instrument cluster

I know this is drifting a little off-topic for this thread, but is there any value hanging onto the strikefinder?  My original plan is to put the EDM in a vertical config where the ARGUS is currently installed, but I considered the strikefinder port as my alternative.

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53 minutes ago, Citadel03glas said:

EDM 900 install - replace fuel senders w/ CIES; remove RPM, MP, FF, DAVTRON, GEM, & engine instrument cluster

First off - congrats on being a new owner! This is a great upgrade for a Mooney. 

Just a suggestion, as someone who went through this same decision thought process, you might consider going to a 930 vs. a 900. I know it's more expensive, but hear me out here. The 900 is a great fit for 2 things:

1) Your panel space is limited and you need something about the same size as a standard instrument

2) You want everything on the left side of the panel, with the 900 right by your other instruments. 

However, the visibility of the gauges in the 900 are problematic IMO. I played around with a 900 and a 930 a bunch at SNF and the difference was super obvious. I'm a younger guy too so it's not just my vision :)Here's a picture to demonstrate. I have a few hundred hours behind G5s and I can tell you the heading at the top of the attitude indicator (224) isn't big, it's on the smaller side to read inflight. But you can read it. Now look at the JPI 900 on the right. Any guesses as to what the Oil Temperature value is? Oil Pressure? How much fuel is in each tank?

 image.jpeg.90c123ebc485e946bcc1fa594a3c684f.jpeg

Then I took a look at the 930 and... Oil Pressure 49, Oil Temp 191, 19gal in both tanks... huge bump in legibility.

image.png.ca22ac8bf63b69d749e9af1d050a63ce.png

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The top photo is not in focus (or reduce resolution), anyhow they provide the analog displays (arrow in the green) for quick check.
The 930 is bigger with big numbers but does require some panel surgery vs 900 that fits in an existing hole. Both have a LED warning light to get your attention if something is not in range.

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11 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

The top photo is not in focus (or reduce resolution), anyhow they provide the analog displays (arrow in the green) for quick check.
The 930 is bigger with big numbers but does require some panel surgery vs 900 that fits in an existing hole. Both have a LED warning light to get your attention if something is not in range.

It's all in focus, and the font sizes are at the same resolution across, so comparing one number (such as the heading on the G5) to the other number would yield the same comparative result since the resolution's not changing. Basically, the legibility ratio between the two stays the same, so if you can read one and not the other, the conclusion is the same. 

Actually not true - the 930 now fits in a standard instrument hole (see below). 

EDM-930-new-direct-rear-8x6.jpg

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5 hours ago, Alex M said:

First off - congrats on being a new owner! This is a great upgrade for a Mooney. 

Just a suggestion, as someone who went through this same decision thought process, you might consider going to a 930 vs. a 900. I know it's more expensive, but hear me out here. The 900 is a great fit for 2 things:

1) Your panel space is limited and you need something about the same size as a standard instrument

2) You want everything on the left side of the panel, with the 900 right by your other instruments. 

However, the visibility of the gauges in the 900 are problematic IMO. I played around with a 900 and a 930 a bunch at SNF and the difference was super obvious. I'm a younger guy too so it's not just my vision :)Here's a picture to demonstrate. I have a few hundred hours behind G5s and I can tell you the heading at the top of the attitude indicator (224) isn't big, it's on the smaller side to read inflight. But you can read it. Now look at the JPI 900 on the right. Any guesses as to what the Oil Temperature value is? Oil Pressure? How much fuel is in each tank?

 image.jpeg.90c123ebc485e946bcc1fa594a3c684f.jpeg

Then I took a look at the 930 and... Oil Pressure 49, Oil Temp 191, 19gal in both tanks... huge bump in legibility.

image.png.ca22ac8bf63b69d749e9af1d050a63ce.png

My panel is very similar to your first pic, with 2 G5s and a 900, except mine is rotated to landscape mode instead of portrait.   I'm 62, only have one eye that really works well (I've had a SODA waiver since I was a teenager but am now on Basic Med, largely because of the vision issue), and progressive trifocals.   I've no issue seeing and reading the numerical quantities on the 900, and think it's much better having it within direct scan view rather than having to look as far over to the right as your pic of the 930.    Basically, you get used to the 900 very quickly and where to look for what.   It's not hard to read at all in my experience, but it does take a minute to figure it out, just like the G5s or any new display.   EFBs can be challenging sometimes, too, so it's kinda all the same issue.

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Fun with Citadel….

My favorite GNx….  80s Buick Grand National… TC’d V6…   :)

image.jpeg.55b2b4f27f97c8350ce8ab0d5ad64399.jpeg
 

ohhhh… that GNX375…

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/577174

 

Wait there is more….

Lessons on weather…

We have two sources available…. Strategic and that other type (Tactical)…

Your strike finder is the tactical type that shows you where bad stuff is right now, without delay….

 

So…. To answer your question… do I need a strike finder… or can I replace it with a nice color screen with fancy maps on it…

 

Know what kills pilots of your skill level…

New pilots…

1) Run out of gas…

2) Fly into clouds without an instrument rating…

 

When you get past the first level… things get tougher… more experienced pilots….

3) Fly into icing conditions… a deadly mistake to avoid… or turn around…

4) Important for today’s discussion… Flying into thunderstorms….  The strike finder helps you find the things you want to avoid…

Know that fancy displays still have issues with data lag for several minutes…   Minutes are too long to avoid a developing thunderstorm…

 

Want to discuss your level of experience?

What you want to accomplish?

Where do you see yourself in five years (interview question, not serious). :)
 

Note…

We are all on the same team…

Everyone brings great experience to the table… some isn’t directly flying related….  
 

I am glad you are here… there is soooo much that can be learned in conversation…
 

Best regards,

-a-

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Alex, thanks for your input on the 900 vs. 930. I have some experience with UX/UI design, and I can see why they went to a smaller number… I’ve seen many times where an operator (not just pilots) fixates too much on the number when all they need to know in the moment is that the data is in range. The values I absolutely need to see are the larger ones and the smaller can be extracted post-flight, but a valid concern for some. I’m also hesitant about how the 930’s size would fit with the 3” spaces I already have. I would prefer to have it in my direct view on pilot-side and the panel doesn’t have room for that over there. 
@carusoam, to answer some of your questions: I’m a lower hour pilot, but spread over a few decades and a few airframes. Most of them are of the C variety, but my flight training had me in Charleston, Albuquerque, Cheyenne, Camarillo, and Colorado Springs. I got my instrument rating in C Springs with half of that training in Camarillo. 
I got into the Mooney because it fit my mission flying up and down CA mostly. I have no intentions of challenging thunderstorms. I grew up around them enough to not consider testing that boundary. I got my instrument ticket to better manage the CA marine layer, but I’m glad I got experience in Colorado summer and winter weather to learn what to avoid. 
As for my non-flying experience, I’ve been serving in the military, both full and part time, for 19 years now and been a laser scientist, space and missile operator, quality engineer, systems engineer, instructor, electromagnetic warfare, and operation officer. Hopefully I can bring some help to others as well in MS as I get my feet under me here!

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Citadel,

In case I failed to mention it….

You are in the right place!

:)
 

Thanks for sharing your details… it helps the other MSers to better answer your questions… and thank you for your service!

 

Most people like the the JPI 900 because of its small footprint…. It fits in front of the pilot… and for the most part, it works…

Some go to the larger JPI 930 but it goes in front of the SIC…. With small remote display for MP, RPM, and warning lights right up front…

 

A handful of people have gone with the EI instruments… a pair of round dials covers mostly everything….

For people that really like their digital instruments… the EI MVP system is greatly appreciated….  It’s a large format similar the 930…

 

Electronics International or EI… has a much better service…. They answer our questions around here often…

JPI, can’t be found… we had a good dealer up the street from them that was really helpful… but Jeev sold his Mooney so we don’t see him very often…

 

The really impressive new guy on the block… is the Garmin EIS… if going fully integrated and big screen TVs are your thing… the EIS collects so much flight data… to go with the engine data…. It is similar to having your own black box….

It would be hard to fly the plane and review that much data at the same time….

If small TVs are OK… the EIS is available in their 3” round displays as well….

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

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My panel is very similar to your first pic, with 2 G5s and a 900, except mine is rotated to landscape mode instead of portrait.   I'm 62, only have one eye that really works well (I've had a SODA waiver since I was a teenager but am now on Basic Med, largely because of the vision issue), and progressive trifocals.   I've no issue seeing and reading the numerical quantities on the 900, and think it's much better having it within direct scan view rather than having to look as far over to the right as your pic of the 930.    Basically, you get used to the 900 very quickly and where to look for what.   It's not hard to read at all in my experience, but it does take a minute to figure it out, just like the G5s or any new display.   EFBs can be challenging sometimes, too, so it's kinda all the same issue.

Mine is landscape mode as well. JPI did switch the display type on the 900. The original display seemed to have less resolution and an anti-glare covering on it. Mine failed twice and after the second failure, they provided the new style display. It has better resolution, but no anti-glare covering. I’ll be curious to see what the displays look like of those who bought a 900 within the past couple of years.

Here are the two displays. The first picture shows the reason why the display was replaced. Biggest gripe I have with the new display is the lack of anti-glare and it looks like Alex’s 930 is using the same style display.

2eed17c02ecb29547a21df5976432b48.jpg
57834b3f9c745550913467e0b50e3751.jpg


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