Inquiring minds want an update on Mooney ownership

[Geoff]

Has anyone heard an ownership update recently for the Mooney Factory/Parts business?

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, Geoff said:

Has anyone heard an ownership update recently for the Mooney Factory/Parts business?

@Jonny was at MooneyMax in June 2022 and mentioned that they had received capital and were promoting the Factory Service Center and parts production. He also talked abut the desire to eventually get a gross weight increase approved for long bodies and get the process complete to allow G1000 Mooneys to update their panels to whatever avionics that they choose.

Since then he has mentioned that they are actively looking to hire more people for the Factory Service Center:

 

[chriscalandro]

12 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

@Jonny was at MooneyMax in June 2022 and mentioned that they had received capital and were promoting the Factory Service Center and parts production. He also talked abut the desire to eventually get a gross weight increase approved for long bodies and get the process complete to allow G1000 Mooneys to update their panels to whatever avionics that they choose.

Since then he has mentioned that they are looking to hire more people for the Factory Service Center:

 

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

Nah, the Chikin Biscuit place is in Longview, isn't it? Not Kerrville . . .

[carusoam]

There are a few good pireps regarding people using the Mooney factory for service…

A few more people have written about getting parts from the factory…

The challenge of getting pireps… it requires people to take the time to write them… 

 

So…

From the outside… It looks like business continues on as promised…

 

One day…

They will have a passionate sales guy that cares about the customer and the business…

He/She will be the voice we will all recognize… as they report all the cool things going on at the factory…

Imagine… a monthly e-news letter about what and who and how things are changing… from suppliers like Continental and Garmin to the business partners like the MSC network….

One day there will be a whole paragraph about the MGTW increase for all LBs…

Another paragraph about where to get that wonderful fuel tank volume increase…

Imagine a side by side comparison… somebody installing fuel bladders compared to the latest procedures for getting the fuel tanks re-sealed… complete with pluses and other issues for consideration…

Some side notes about how to keep the Garmin equipment up to date… WAAS upgrades, BlueTooth improvements…..

A follow-on story of a great example of how a customer wired in their BatteryMinder for ease of operation of their two battery system….

A blast from the past… An older Mooney getting a windshield upgrade with all of the parts needed from the factory….

 

Sad news… that lovely Mooney that has been Mooney Of the Month for soooooooo long…. Will get dethroned!
 

Fortunately… the image of Erik’s forever-plane can’t be on the website forever…. She will get replaced by another beautiful Mooney…. Month after month.   There are so many really nice pics from around the Mooney World…
 

There is so much going on at the factory… they would have to have David stop by and report what he sees… only this time, from inside… 

A shout-out for the recyclers of pre-flown Mooney parts… what to look for, and what to avoid….

Something enlightening… how about those new LED recog lights getting ready to come in from Whelen…

Are those blue fuel cap seals OK for my Mooney?

Imagine somebody taking pics and writing about an annual being done at the factory… If it isn’t written down…. It didn’t happen right?

 

It could happen!

Wishing all the best for Jonny and the team in Kerrville… as they are closely watched from around the world….

 

PP thoughts only, not an insider….

Best regards,

-a-

[1980Mooney]

11 hours ago, Geoff said:

Has anyone heard an ownership update recently for the Mooney Factory/Parts business?

Recently here on MS there was a topic "Interesting analysis on Mooney's final history"  with a YouTube video.  On July 25, (more than a month after the "MooneyMax comments" above) Jonny posted a response here on MS:

"Some of what he said was speculation, but one premise is correct: Building Mooneys is very costly and inefficient. I like to say, "while we pour our hearts into every plane, the competition pours plastic into a mold." To move us to a completely composite airframe would cost many millions to certify and many, many years.

But indeed, to your point, we are still in business. We are going to focus on maintaining the existing fleet and standing ourselves up with parts production. Then we'll start talking about entering the market again. In the meantime, the economy looks set to contract - building GA planes is about to become that much riskier. Maybe this isn't such a bad time to be on the sidelines.

Jonny"

The key words are "Building Mooneys is very costly and inefficient" and "on the sidelines" and " standing ourselves up with parts production". 

New designs, gross weight increase, G1000 upgrade all takes cash.  It sounds like cash is something that the company is devoting to supporting parts and service for the foreseeable future.  

Edited August 23, 2022 by 1980Mooney

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

@Jonny was at MooneyMax in June 2022 and mentioned that they had received capital and were promoting the Factory Service Center and parts production. He also talked abut the desire to eventually get a gross weight increase approved for long bodies and get the process complete to allow G1000 Mooneys to update their panels to whatever avionics that they choose.

Since then he has mentioned that they are actively looking to hire more people for the Factory Service Center:

 

That was June, this is August.

Maybe provide a monthly update to the Mooney faithful?

[ZuluZulu]

17 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

He also talked abut the desire to eventually get a gross weight increase approved for long bodies and get the process complete to allow G1000 Mooneys to update their panels to whatever avionics that they choose.

They've been saying that for about two years already.  Looks to be on the TruTrak autopilot timeline.

[GeeBee]

He said at Mooney Max, both initiatives are top priority. 

 

[Will.iam]

20 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

They've been saying that for about two years already.  Looks to be on the TruTrak autopilot timeline.

Welcome to FAA molasses. Garmin only gets a little faster because they have an FAA in house. So did Boeing and look what happened to them. Now FAA molasses with extra molasses. Like approving GL100 or Diesel engines or CPDLC. It will come but takes years not weeks to do. 

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, Pinecone said:

 

That was June, this is August.

Maybe provide a monthly update to the Mooney faithful?

I'd rather that they just put the blinders on and make parts and service Mooneys than to take their precious resources (mainly time) and let us know every month that six flaps were made and ten elevators and 10 no back springs were sent out, etc.

A year ago there were threads on here about not being able to get parts - those threads have subsided. Let's let them do their thing and if we happen to get an update at a Mooney get-together a couple times a year that's good enough for me as long as the parts keep coming and the service center stays busy. 

[Pinecone]

How long does it take to write and post a paragraph about what is going on?

I am not looking for in depth, but just how are things going.

 

[ZuluZulu]

15 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

How long does it take to write and post a paragraph about what is going on?

I am not looking for in depth, but just how are things going.

 

Considering they tend to write like a 15-year-old's idea of great marketing copy ("When you own a Mooney, you don't own a plane, you own an aircraft. When you fly a Mooney, you're not a pilot, you're an aviator. So yeah ... own it!"), maybe we're better off.

[MooneyMitch]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:56 PM, carusoam said:

There are a few good pireps regarding people using the Mooney factory for service…

A few more people have written about getting parts from the factory…

The challenge of getting pireps… it requires people to take the time to write them… 

 

So…

From the outside… It looks like business continues on as promised…

 

One day…

They will have a passionate sales guy that cares about the customer and the business…

He/She will be the voice we will all recognize… as they report all the cool things going on at the factory…

Imagine… a monthly e-news letter about what and who and how things are changing… from suppliers like Continental and Garmin to the business partners like the MSC network….

One day there will be a whole paragraph about the MGTW increase for all LBs…

Another paragraph about where to get that wonderful fuel tank volume increase…

Imagine a side by side comparison… somebody installing fuel bladders compared to the latest procedures for getting the fuel tanks re-sealed… complete with pluses and other issues for consideration…

Some side notes about how to keep the Garmin equipment up to date… WAAS upgrades, BlueTooth improvements…..

A follow-on story of a great example of how a customer wired in their BatteryMinder for ease of operation of their two battery system….

A blast from the past… An older Mooney getting a windshield upgrade with all of the parts needed from the factory….

 

Sad news… that lovely Mooney that has been Mooney Of the Month for soooooooo long…. Will get dethroned!
 

Fortunately… the image of Erik’s forever-plane can’t be on the website forever…. She will get replaced by another beautiful Mooney…. Month after month.   There are so many really nice pics from around the Mooney World…
 

There is so much going on at the factory… they would have to have David stop by and report what he sees… only this time, from inside… 

A shout-out for the recyclers of pre-flown Mooney parts… what to look for, and what to avoid….

Something enlightening… how about those new LED recog lights getting ready to come in from Whelen…

Are those blue fuel cap seals OK for my Mooney?

Imagine somebody taking pics and writing about an annual being done at the factory… If it isn’t written down…. It didn’t happen right?

 

It could happen!

Wishing all the best for Jonny and the team in Kerrville… as they are closely watched from around the world….

 

PP thoughts only, not an insider….

Best regards,

-a-

Sounds like the MAPA Log from the 80’s! Great memories!! 

[FlyingDude]

14 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Building Mooneys is very costly and inefficient. I like to say, "while we pour our hearts into every plane, the competition pours plastic into a mold.

I was wondering, how about Mooney made kits and let the builder shoulder the grunt work...

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, FlyingDude said:

I was wondering, how about Mooney made kits and let the builder shoulder the grunt work...

If they manufactured airplanes right now they'd be competing against a handful of certified single engine airplane companies.

If they went the experimental route they'd be competing against dozens of companies that do that, who already understand that business model. 

Completely different business. Way easier to do it under a completely new company.

[ArtVandelay]

How long does it take to write and post a paragraph about what is going on?
I am not looking for in depth, but just how are things going.
 

Offer to be an investor (got a few million?) …then you’ll get updates.

[kortopates]

I was wondering, how about Mooney made kits and let the builder shoulder the grunt work...

In addition to the points that Lance makes, the FAA will not allow a business to do both experimental aircraft work and certified aircraft work under the same roof. In their mind your business is either 100% in for operating under their approved production certificate; or certified repair station etc. This eliminated a number of repair stations years ago that tried to serve both certified aircraft and the experimental market. All the ones i know went entirely experimental.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Two types of manufacturing…. Regulated and non-regulated…

Manufacturing in a regulated environment…. Is incredibly well controlled, and very expensive to maintain that control… people get trained for every detail… records are kept of that training… standards are set on how to write a date code, what kind of pen to use, and what color ink is OK….

In the non-regulated environment… there are really good manufacturing controls using Deming quality control theory…

 

If you manufacture a non-controlled product in a regulated environment… you will go out of business because competition will have much lower costs…

If you manufacture controlled products in an unregulated environment…. Your quality will have sooo many minor errors in it… rework of all the bad product will cost an arm and a leg…. You will go out of business because your rework costs will be so high, and your reputation takes a beating…

 

Both systems work…

A similar comparison…. Food factories vs. drug factories….  We ingest both…

Its difficult to die from an accidental overdose of food… 

Designing a rocket is easy, manufacturing a rocket is really hard…  -E. Musk….

 

PP thoughts only, not a Deming quality  expert… or manufacturing engineer…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[1980Mooney]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:43 PM, LANCECASPER said:

If they manufactured airplanes right now they'd be competing against a handful of certified single engine airplane companies.

If they went the experimental route they'd be competing against dozens of companies that do that, who already understand that business model. 

Completely different business. Way easier to do it under a completely new company.

 

On 8/23/2022 at 4:04 PM, FlyingDude said:

I was wondering, how about Mooney made kits and let the builder shoulder the grunt work...

In June Jonny told owners at MooneyMax that it took 9,000 manhours to build a Mooney.  Now that is the time required by a skilled, experienced team working in an environment with all the tools and jigs available and organized for maximum efficiency.  So if a homebuilder tried to do it, even a skilled one, after you factor in all the starting and stopping, "rediscovering how the wheel was made", redoing mistakes, working in an inefficient space requiring extra moving of materials, etc. I bet it would take double the hours.

If a homebuilder had a life and a family I don't think he would live long enough to build it part time.  If a "professional builder" built it as an Experimental and resold it to you I bet it would take him 10,000 man-hours (about 5 man years) and he would want to be compensated about $50/hour (it's not just labor - someone has to pay for hangar, tools, etc.) - that's $500,000 in "labor" plus the cost of the kit.

If Mooney were to get into Experimental it would have to be a way, way simplified design - definitely not a Mooney.

 

[StevenL757]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:36 PM, LANCECASPER said:

I'd rather that they just put the blinders on and make parts and service Mooneys than to take their precious resources (mainly time) and let us know every month that six flaps were made and ten elevators and 10 no back springs were sent out, etc.

A year ago there were threads on here about not being able to get parts - those threads have subsided. Let's let them do their thing and if we happen to get an update at a Mooney get-together a couple times a year that's good enough for me as long as the parts keep coming and the service center stays busy. 

Lance, I think you're right on with that post.  It does seem, however, that despite an infusion of capital (if that really happened), they're still no further along than 2 or 3 years ago.  I'm hearing the same promises and rhetoric to "develop or implement x, y, or z" or to grow the service and parts businesses.  The perception (at least mine anyway) is that nothing has really been done.  May not be relevant, but I'm still waiting on a no-back spring kit - 7 months and counting - with no relief in sight.

I appreciate building a business can be a marathon and not a sprint, but the talk remains the same with no discernable actions.  The truth is, they have no plan.  I've sincerely tried to stay positive about all this; however, it's getting more and more difficult to see a realistic positive outcome.  When the senior leader of an aerospace manufacturing corporation makes statements like "...making GA planes is getting riskier", paired with "Maybe this isn't such a bad time to be on the sidelines", it makes me question motive, intent, and whether one's heart is truly in it.

With each passing day, ownership of this make is getting more and more difficult to swallow.  It's honestly causing me to re-visit C-340A ownership.  Its TCO aside, at least I'd have solid parts and support resources at my disposal...despite having a 40+ year-old airframe.

Just thinking out loud.

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Lance, I think you're right on with that post.  It does seem, however, that despite an infusion of capital (if that really happened), they're still no further along than 2 or 3 years ago.  I'm hearing the same promises and rhetoric to "develop or implement x, y, or z" or to grow the service and parts businesses.  The perception (at least mine anyway) is that nothing has really been done.  May not be relevant, but I'm still waiting on a no-back spring kit - 7 months and counting - with no relief in sight.

I appreciate building a business can be a marathon and not a sprint, but the talk remains the same with no discernable actions.  The truth is, they have no plan.  I've sincerely tried to stay positive about all this; however, it's getting more and more difficult to see a realistic positive outcome.  When the senior leader of an aerospace manufacturing corporation makes statements like "...making GA planes is getting riskier", paired with "Maybe this isn't such a bad time to be on the sidelines", it makes me question motive, intent, and whether one's heart is truly in it.

With each passing day, ownership of this make is getting more and more difficult to swallow.  It's honestly causing me to re-visit C-340A ownership.  Its TCO aside, at least I'd have solid parts and support resources at my disposal...despite having a 40+ year-old airframe.

Just thinking out loud.

Sell your stock, and sell your Mooney.  Get out while you can.