Aerox O2 tank refill

[FlyingDude]

Hi guys,

I have an aerox O2 bottle, which turned out to be useful during my MI-AZ Grand Canyon trip...  It turns out, after 10 years of living in flat MI, gone are the days when mountain trekking and playing "football" at 2500m on the Alps endowed me with plenty hemoglobins, which used to reduce my density altitude while the plane's density altitude was climbing...  

Now I need to refill my O2 tank.  Yes, I know you can purchase the adaptor and you can get one of those very big tanks for your hangar, but honestly I'm being frugal (not CB this time), because I've had the tank for 14 months and have used it on 2 trips only.  So, I'd be using that hardware once a year, literally.

How does refilling Aerox O2 tanks work?  Can I walk into any FBO?  Anyone around SE Michigan have the hardware and big tank, so I can pay you for a refill?  

Tepid, anemic hugs,

F

[carusoam]

Dude,

Find friend with Cascade O2 system in his hangar….  

Some people take their portable tanks to the local welding supply guy…. See if they need an adapter, or you need to bring one with you…

CB for varying reasons,

-a-

[Marauder]

Hi guys,
I have an aerox O2 bottle, which turned out to be useful during my MI-AZ Grand Canyon trip...  It turns out, after 10 years of living in flat MI, gone are the days when mountain trekking and playing "football" at 2500m on the Alps endowed me with plenty hemoglobins, which used to reduce my density altitude while the plane's density altitude was climbing...  
Now I need to refill my O2 tank.  Yes, I know you can purchase the adaptor and you can get one of those very big tanks for your hangar, but honestly I'm being frugal (not CB this time), because I've had the tank for 14 months and have used it on 2 trips only.  So, I'd be using that hardware once a year, literally.
How does refilling Aerox O2 tanks work?  Can I walk into any FBO?  Anyone around SE Michigan have the hardware and big tank, so I can pay you for a refill?  
Tepid, anemic hugs,
F

Here is the scoop on O2 tank refills that I am seeing. A few years ago, I could walk into any gas supply company and get a fill up on my 27 cu. ft. cylinder for $30. Now, a number of them won’t even fill them if they suspect they are for aviation usage. I know of one place that requires a doctor’s note that it is required by the “patient” - I kid you not…

I have a 3 cylinder transfill set up in my hangar. There are 4 of us who split the tank rental costs and oxygen usage. Oxygen by itself is or I should say was pretty cheap. We used to pay $16 for a 250 cu. ft. cylinder. Over the past year it has snuck up to $40 per cylinder. I checked with a couple of FBOs and they are charging a lot to for tank refills in this area (mid Atlantic). I forgot what Danb said he was paying at KILG but I think it was in the $150 to $200 range to fill his 115 cu. ft. onboard cylinder.

If you can find someone who has a refill station and you use oxygen regularly, latch onto them like a leech from the movie Stand By Me. Hopefully the pricing and requirement silliness isn’t happening in your area and you will find a reasonably price refill option.


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[jaylw314]

Aerox uses an industrial CGA-540 valve, right?  Not the post-valve most medical bottles use?  I use bottles with CGA-540 valves and just tell them its for my aquarium or my beer brewing hobby, and the welding supply shop doesn't have a problem

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, FlyingDude said:

Hi guys,

I have an aerox O2 bottle, which turned out to be useful during my MI-AZ Grand Canyon trip...  It turns out, after 10 years of living in flat MI, gone are the days when mountain trekking and playing "football" at 2500m on the Alps endowed me with plenty hemoglobins, which used to reduce my density altitude while the plane's density altitude was climbing...  

Now I need to refill my O2 tank.  Yes, I know you can purchase the adaptor and you can get one of those very big tanks for your hangar, but honestly I'm being frugal (not CB this time), because I've had the tank for 14 months and have used it on 2 trips only.  So, I'd be using that hardware once a year, literally.

How does refilling Aerox O2 tanks work?  Can I walk into any FBO?  Anyone around SE Michigan have the hardware and big tank, so I can pay you for a refill?  

Tepid, anemic hugs,

F

You probably have the 22 cu ft "Jumbo D" tank.  I get mine filled with pure O2 at a local scuba dive shop here in Houston.  Technical divers use pure oxygen or some other blends for faster decompression.

They only wanted me to show that I was a pilot and using it for aviation purposes.  Last month they charged me $27 including tax to fill a completely empty tank.  That is way, way less than any FBO will charge and they filled it more fully than the FBO ever did.

[201Mooniac]

I use a medical bottle and every few years my doc gives me a prescription for O2 and the medical supply company refills the bottle for $6.

[ArtVandelay]

I go to scuba store, they can do it but it requires a guy who knows what they’re doing. I think they have to disconnect the “scuba adapter”.

[Scott Ashton]

Hi guys - some great suggestions here.   The standard Aerox and Skyox cylinders both have a standard CGA540 fitting that any industrial gas place can fill.   If you get your Aerox cylinder from Aircraft Spruce then it has a PB3 Schraeder valve, which is a standard aviation fitting used on the installed systems.

best approach like people mention is to get a three cylinder cascade and fill yourself and you will never run out.  A medical oxygen store requires a prescription so don’t waste your time with that.  Try a place like Airgas or Matheson gas and they should be able to do it.

(FYI be sure to check your hydrostatic date too.  If it’s over 5 years, no one will fill it and you will have to get it tested.

 

scott

[RobertGary1]

I pay $25 at the scuba shop or $190 at the fbo. 
also if it’s been that many years you need a dot check. $250 at the fbo or I paid $20 at a fire supply house. 
 

-Robert 

[FlyingDude]

Thanks a lot guys, all of you.
I bought it from aircraft spruce, maybe I'll need a PBA to Cga540 adapter... 

[Scott Ashton]

@FlyingDude this is what you need….https://www.aerox.com/4110-801-fam-pb-3-filling-adaptor-to-fill-puritan-bennett-from-male-cga-540-3-length/

 

[hubcap]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I pay $25 at the scuba shop or $190 at the fbo. 
also if it’s been that many years you need a dot check. $250 at the fbo or I paid $20 at a fire supply house. 
 

-Robert 

Are you getting O2 at the scuba shop? All the scuba shops I have ever used only do air or nitrox, not O2.

[FlyingDude]

9 hours ago, Scott Ashton said:

@FlyingDude this is what you need….https://www.aerox.com/4110-801-fam-pb-3-filling-adaptor-to-fill-puritan-bennett-from-male-cga-540-3-length/

 

Is this something that one can self build?? Googling, I'm finding plenty of pb3 and cga540 connectors. 

Thanks...

[RobertGary1]

9 hours ago, hubcap said:

Are you getting O2 at the scuba shop? All the scuba shops I have ever used only do air or nitrox, not O2.

Might be the level of scuba shop. The more technical dives mix various amounts of o2 in their air for customers. 

[carusoam]

59 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

Is this something that one can self build?? Googling, I'm finding plenty of pb3 and cga540 connectors. 

Thanks...

It’s kind of like plumbing for engineers…

The parts are available to build everything…

Things to be aware of…

O2 leaks can be hazardous in the forms of fire, and high pressure.

It might also be challenging to be able to buy the parts at low enough cost compared to the equipment suppliers who get a bulk discount…

 

PP thoughts only, not a plumber…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[FlyingDude]

well, a quick update is due...  I looked around to find the parts to build my own...  It turns out, schrader and CGA540 connectors are plenty, and cheap... up to 400psi rating.  Then, the next level up is 4000psi, and there, we're talking 30-40$ / part (on McMaster).  You need two connectors on each end and an adaptor between them...  I bit the bullet and placed an order from spruce.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I take my supply cylinder to the welding shop and tell them to fill it from the Manifold, not a cascade. They look puzzled and say it will take a day to do it, I say “no problem” then they ask why I need that and I say “ I breath that stuff” then they put their hands over their ears and say “don’t ever tell me that!” Then they fill it like I asked. My 140 cu/ft bottle costs $32. I have a Haskell compressor so I can fill both my portable bottles 3 times.

[ArtVandelay]

I take my supply cylinder to the welding shop and tell them to fill it from the Manifold, not a cascade. They look puzzled and say it will take a day to do it, I say “no problem” then they ask why I need that and I say “ I breath that stuff” then they put their hands over their ears and say “don’t ever tell me that!” Then they fill it like I asked. My 140 cu/ft bottle costs $32. I have a Haskell compressor so I can fill both my portable bottles 3 times.

Please explain the difference between filling via cascade vs manifold and how it affects breath ability?

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Please explain the difference between filling via cascade vs manifold and how it affects breath ability?

In a perfect world there would be no difference. The manifold, is straight from the LOX, tank to the compressor, and then through the pipes to your cylinder. They do this once or twice a day. All the cylinders on a branch are to the same pressure, because each branch has its own regulator. The branches can usually be up to 10000 PSI. 

Most welding bottles are filled from the cascade. Especially if you bring one in in the afternoon and want it filled then and there. By then they have shut down the LOX manifold.

the problem arises when someone with an oxy/acetylene rig let’s their oxygen tank run dry. When this happens the oxygen tank will be back filled with acetylene. When one of these cylinders is filled with oxygen, the acetylene will burn in the tank and contaminate the cascade tank with combustion products.

The risk is small, but if your tank is filled from the manifold, it is zero. All medical bottles and ABO bottles are required to be filled from the manifold.

[Pinecone]

How is that risk zero from a manifold?  The supply would not be contaminated, but every other bottle on the manifold could be.

The big difference is, a manifold fills every tank to the desired pressure.

A cascade, fills one tank to the pressure of the highest tank in the cascade (if you do it in the right order ), after the fill.  Technically, you cannot fill to the same pressure that the cascade tanks are delivered at.

So if the cascade tanks are delivered at 2200 psi, you can get close to, but not quite 2200 psi, and each fill will be a bit less.  If all tanks are full, then you can get VERY close to 2200 psi.

[N201MKTurbo]

56 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

How is that risk zero from a manifold?  The supply would not be contaminated, but every other bottle on the manifold could be.

The big difference is, a manifold fills every tank to the desired pressure.

A cascade, fills one tank to the pressure of the highest tank in the cascade (if you do it in the right order ), after the fill.  Technically, you cannot fill to the same pressure that the cascade tanks are delivered at.

So if the cascade tanks are delivered at 2200 psi, you can get close to, but not quite 2200 psi, and each fill will be a bit less.  If all tanks are full, then you can get VERY close to 2200 psi.

I assume the flow is always from the higher pressure manifold to the empty cylinders. 
 

When using a cascade, a combustion event in the cylinder being filled could raise the pressure in that cylinder above the cascade pressure and backfill the cascade.

The cascades they use are 16 large cylinders in a steel rack that is moved with a fork lift. I assume they fill them to a higher pressure than the cylinder pressure they are filling. Any cascades that are used that day are refilled from the manifold the next morning.

I asked the guys at the cylinder shop (not the fill station) about different oxygen cylinders and they overhaul and test oxygen cylinders up to 10,000 PSI.

I asked them if a cylinder ever exploded while doing a hydro test? They said only once. They were testing a batch of 10000 PSI cylinders from the Air Force base and there was an identical 3000 PSI cylinder in the bunch. It exploded in the hydro test tank and shot through the roof of the building. Luckily no one was hurt. He said it put them out of business for a week.

[DonMuncy]

I am in Dallas (RBD) and have a two tank cascade set-up. I would be glad to fill up anyone's "on board" or portable tank at no charge. I don't use mine often, and would welcome the chance to help out fellow pilots. If anyone insisted on paying, the last time I filled one of my tanks it was about $30 and I get about 4 reasonably full tansfers per tank. 

[Marauder]

I am in Dallas (RBD) and have a two tank cascade set-up. I would be glad to fill up anyone's "on board" or portable tank at no charge. I don't use mine often, and would welcome the chance to help out fellow pilots. If anyone insisted on paying, the last time I filled one of my tanks it was about $30 and I get about 4 reasonably full tansfers per tank. 

Have you needed to refill one of your transfill cylinders this past year? I was a bit shocked that our 250 cu ft cylinders are now $40 per refill. It was $16 in 2021.


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[DonMuncy]

Just now, Marauder said:

Have you needed to refill one of your transfill cylinders this past year? I was a bit shocked that our 250 cu ft cylinders are now $40 per refill. It was $16 in 2021.


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No, I have not filled one this year. And yes, I am likley behind the times. I may start requiring my pilot buddies to buy me lunch in exchange for a charge.

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I assume the flow is always from the higher pressure manifold to the empty cylinders. 
 

When using a cascade, a combustion event in the cylinder being filled could raise the pressure in that cylinder above the cascade pressure and backfill the cascade.

The cascades they use are 16 large cylinders in a steel rack that is moved with a fork lift. I assume they fill them to a higher pressure than the cylinder pressure they are filling. Any cascades that are used that day are refilled from the manifold the next morning.

I asked the guys at the cylinder shop (not the fill station) about different oxygen cylinders and they overhaul and test oxygen cylinders up to 10,000 PSI.

I asked them if a cylinder ever exploded while doing a hydro test? They said only once. They were testing a batch of 10000 PSI cylinders from the Air Force base and there was an identical 3000 PSI cylinder in the bunch. It exploded in the hydro test tank and shot through the roof of the building. Luckily no one was hurt. He said it put them out of business for a week.

Same with a manifold.  The combustion pressure can be above the manifold system.

Any SMART welding setup has flashback arrestors, that are one way valves to prevent this from happening.